Vado 5.0 IGH versus Tero 5.0 (EQ pack)

[Stefan Mikes]

If you want the fastest model, buy the red one. Otherwise, live with second place.

Red is the fasterestest colour
(Having said the above, I don't need to ride a fasterestest e-bike )

 

[Rich W.]

@Rich W. thank you for your candour regarding what would suit me better. I absolutely agree there are more prudent options.

Confession - I started looking at the 5.0 based on colour(!). The 4.0 EQ (far more suitable) colours were either too sensible or too bold - for me!

The Tero 5.0 fast becomes a pit where I keep throwing money in to fit my needs. Especially considering the missing fenders, lights and radar from the Vado 5.0 IGH. My head has also advised me not to go down the Tero 5.0 route, but if I always listened to my head my life would be a lot simpler…ch hur

I really like the Tero and I have no regrets. It just doesn't make much sense financially. I have no interest in shredding or fast downhill so I didn’t want or need a full suspension bike and didn't want to pay the up-charge for it, and even though Im approaching the price of a Levo, I still wouldn't want one (well I wouldnt mind having one but Im not that kind of rider). I like the EQ set up for street and long dirt/gravel rides, and I also enjoy some semi-challenging single track trails, so for me its a good fit.

As delivered, a Tero is fine for mild to moderate trails, and is fine for street riding in the low 20mph range. I felt vulnerable on the street and down hills it quickly became a coaster, hence my mods. Now its a great bike on the road (my roads are hilly, no shoulder, and certainly no bike lanes or designated trails) and retains the OE low gear ratios. It’s a little over the top for a commuter with its more heavy-duty trail capability, but then I don’t commute. It’s also big and heavy - mine is an XL, and with 29’s, that makes a bulky bike. And I get your color preferences - the Tero is beautiful, although with a nice paint job every chip and scrach hurts.

On the PNW post, I think air is better than spring loaded suspension posts since its adjustable, it works well (saving what’s left of my lumbar spine), install was easy since the Tero 5.0 comes with an internal cable dropper, and it has a lot of really good reviews, so a lot of folks are happy with it. The only issue is that I weigh 16.7857 stone so the seat sags a little at 300psi (or close to that) when I sit on it and it shouldn’t. I’m going to experiment with slightly higher pressure and see what happens. Also the air chamber is so small that you have to have a “no loss” fill valve arrangement on your shock pump or you’ll never be able to fill it. I’m using a 300psi Specialized shock pump and its adequate.

As far as riding comfort goes it seems to make a big difference and I’ve gone back to my OE seat from an over-sized spring assist gel seat. My grandpa seat https://www.specialized.com/us/en/the-cup-gel/p/174229?color=278380-174229&searchText=27320-0550 was comfortable but the springs constantly bottomed out on bumps which was too jarring for my back - 40 years in the fire service left me a bit compromised in that area. And of course the big seat looked dopey. The OE saddle helps the over-all appearance of the bike and makes me feel like a more competent rider.

 

[Duce]

Brand new member here.
@dynamic I want my first posting to be to thank you for your HUGE amounts of information on the subject in this forum. I have read through a lot of your posts, but your primary 30+ page thread was a little too much for me and I had to skim.

A little about me. I am looking at the Vado 5.0 IGH. I am looking to get fit, and use it for small errands. I live in a VERY hilly and suburban area. I live close to the beach, so I am looking forward to riding to the strand, but getting there requires a e-bike (at least for me). I do not live near trails or mountains. I grew up next to some Prime Mountain Biking trails, but sadly not any more. I traded the beach for the mountains. I have some lower back pain, so I think having too aggressive of a forward position will be a little much for me.

I am lucky enough to live near a Specialized owned and operated shop, so I think/hope getting access to people who know how to support those gearboxes will be sufficient. Fingers crossed.

So, I have questions:
1. I think I remember someone saying The Vado is not a mountain bike. I totally get that. But, can I ride on the occasional trails, like once a year when I go camping with the family and other Dads? If I were to change tires, could I do this?
2. The Taro is a fully functional (albeit heavy) bike when the battery dies. What if I have the fully automatic IGH? How does that work? On that same topic, how much of a battery drain is the IGH?
3. While I am firmly in the Vado Camp, I was wondering if anybody has anybody done any comparisons between this bike and the Serial 1, Rush/Cty Speed? They seem very similar except, inexplicable, that unit has NO suspension. The Google Integration is pretty cool, I like the totally clean look of the bike, with hidden cables, I like the App integration. They seem to have a really cool mobile application that creates an awesome Bike Dashboard, while charging the phone, and integrating with google services. Lastly, the built in cellular/GPS tracking is pretty sweet too. Any feedback on this area would be super helpful.
4. Why in the World does Specialized no offer the Vado Turbo 4.0 in the IGH? I mean seriously. Its like they are trying to be difficult...

 

[dynamic]

1. I think I remember someone saying The Vado is not a mountain bike. I totally get that. But, can I ride on the occasional trails, like once a year when I go camping with the family and other Dads? If I were to change tires, could I do this?

I took it on unexpected single track. It did surprisingly well. Not a mountain biker, but my current bike would definitely be better at it than the vado was.

2. The Taro is a fully functional (albeit heavy) bike when the battery dies. What if I have the fully automatic IGH? How does that work? On that same topic, how much of a battery drain is the IGH?

Honestly? I think there is a coin battery for that. The gearing certainly works while the bike is off. At least, I think it did. But I don't know for sure.

3. While I am firmly in the Vado Camp, I was wondering if anybody has anybody done any comparisons between this bike and the Serial 1, Rush/Cty Speed?

ME. Answer: As @Stefan Mikes will jump in to point out, the specialized broad range of connectivity and mastermind control system *is* technically better (This is said loosely, as my 30 page thread goes into detail of how specialized dropped the ball all over the place). I would take a suspension on *any* bike. Bikes without them are not comfortable here with all the potholes, dirt road and crappy bike trails. And, not sure you *should* be firmly in the vado camp. The como 4.0 does exist. However, varia integration with no need to charge is almost enough *by itself* to justify a 5.0 model.

4. Why in the World does Specialized no offer the Vado Turbo 4.0 in the IGH? I mean seriously. Its like they are trying to be difficult...

See previously mentioned como 4.0.

What I have found in comparing all these bikes is for a casual rider: the differences are not as prolific as some make them sound in terms of similar bikes. What will matter is if you want those things or not. Some do not want a suspension and want to feel the road which makes you feel more connected to the surface. If you want that: serial. The automatic / IGH should be identical on both bikes as all parts are essentially controlled by enviolo and integrated by the bike manufacturer. Mastermind, again, does this better than the system on the serial 1.

Did I ride the serial 1 and think: "Ohh, this is better or worse"... NO. Do I think the specialized is overall better for me: YES. Would I cry if I had to swap them? Probably not.

A specialized owned shop *may* help with problems on this bike. But, again, it may not. They are certainly not distributing information about proper IGH service through their service network. If it does help, it will likely be because a *specific* mechanic at that shop has the experience to deal with IGH things. And specialized is new enough to the products, that it simply may not be the case. Some other manufacturers have been selling this kind of bikes for many years. (Evelo for one).

My wife is heavily leaning toward como 5.0 IGH. And just crossing her fingers that she doesn't have the same experience I did.

I am looking to get fit, and use it for small errands. I live in a VERY hilly and suburban area.

Seriously: Consider a peloton. (not necessarily as a replacement, but a supplement). Or a Carol Bike. Having the option to ride inside when weather or bike maintenance forces the decision is glorious.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I live in a VERY hilly and suburban area.

Nothing can beat chain/derailleur there. Especially, as you could select a correct chainring size to meet your precise needs.

A recent story. I weigh over 200 lbs, and typically carry a 15 lb pannier on my longer rides. My older Vado 6.0 has a 11-46T 11-speed Shimano cassette, and I chose a 42T chainring for my weekend rides in my rather flat area (the original chainring was 48T for high speed I don't need, and I use a 38T chainring on my mountain vacation rides). The 1.2s motor of my Vado is less powerful than the 2.2 motor of the current Vado 5.0 but it is in a similar class.

On last Sunday, I was told to climb a very steep river embankment directly, in the straight line up. The other e-bike on the ride, a Giant Trance E+ e-MTB (38-51T gearing) did that trick with ease. Now, I switched the Turbo on, downshifted to 42-46T and also did that very steep climb, although with a little effort from my side. All with my own weight, and with the heavy pannier!

On my mountain vacation, I was able to do long climbs with maximum 19% grade on the Vado with the 38-46T gearing.

My point is: Not only the derailleur/chain is more efficient than the IGH but you can choose your chainring size freely!

1. I think I remember someone saying The Vado is not a mountain bike. I totally get that. But, can I ride on the occasional trails, like once a year when I go camping with the family and other Dads? If I were to change tires, could I do this?

I ride a lot off-road with my gravel cycling club on a Vado (it is mostly forest fire-roads and easy singletrack). We ride the forest at high speed! Funnily enough, I use fast rolling tyres during the warm season, same as my riding mates. Your "occasional trail" may be different to mine; so yes, you could replace the tyres with more aggressive ones. The only limit is your fender clearance (you cannot fit too wide tyres).

I have some lower back pain, so I think having too aggressive of a forward position will be a little much for me.

Duce, as we both share a similar condition, please listen to me carefully.
The biggest delusion a rider might have is that upright riding position would help the lower back pain. No. The upright riding position makes your spine compressed with almost full weight of your body, making you suffer. Once I understood it (at it took almost 3 years!), I lowered the Vado bars as much as possible and added SQLab Innerbarends for even more sporty position. Guess what? I'm doing a Metric Century and feel no pain whatsoever! Additionally, my butt is relieved, and I start feeling the sporty (narrow and firm) Specialized saddle only at the 55th mile! Wearing no padded shorts!

Yes I understand people do not want to hassle with the chain. Still, a regular Vado 4.0 or 5.0 could be the best for you!

 

[scrambler]

My point is: Not only the derailleur/chain is more efficient than the IGH but you can choose your chairing size freely!

Not sure what you are saying.
With an IGH, the IGH provides the gearing range like 428% on a Kindernay VII or 543% on a XIV.
Then the choice of rear sprocket and chainring allows you to place that gear range where you need it most in term of final gear ratio.

If anything, an IGH usually can provide more range and more flexibility in gear ratio.
It is indeed slightly less efficient, but on an e-bike this is really a non-issue, as is the slightly bigger weight.
It does offer a lot less maintenance, reliability, and the ability to switch gear at a dead stop.
Its biggest drawback is the extra cost which can be significant for high range high power models like the Rohloff or the Kindernay.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

With an IGH, the IGH provides the gearing range like 428% on a Kindernay VII or 543% on a XIV.
Then the choice of rear sprocket and chainring allows you to place that gear range where you need it most in term of final gear ratio.

Are we talking Vado 3.0 with manual Enviolo or Vado 5.0 with Enviolo Automatiq Heavy-Duty? Because we do not discuss any Kindernay here.
I need to hear about a Vado or Como IGH owner who could extend the gearing towards 20 gear-inches yet

 

[dynamic]

The biggest delusion a rider might have is that upright riding position would help the lower back pain.

The biggest delusion a rider might have is listening to medical advice on an internet forum. @Duce Go see a bike fitter if you have issues. Every body is unique.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Go see a bike fitter if you have issues.

The bike fitter will start with selling Duce a pair of cleated shoes and matching SPD pedals (of course, Specialized ones!) At least Specialized Retul bike fitters require that here

Every body is unique.

You cannot deny the law of physics. Upright riding position moves your weight onto the saddle, and the body weight rests on your lumbar vertebrae then.

You ride a Peloton. I ride a Vado at 0 C (32 F), and did a 103 km (64 mi) ride yesterday.

 

[dynamic]

The bike fitter will start with selling Duce a pair of cleated shoes and matching SPD pedals (of course, Specialized ones!) At least Specialized Retul bike fitters require that


You cannot deny the law of physics. Upright riding position moves your weight onto the saddle, and the body weight rests on your lumbar vertebrae then.

And forward body position puts weight on your hands creating numbness or stresses your shoulders giving you back pain again as your back tries to accommodate.

There is no point in addressing bike fit on an internet forum. There are far too many variables that are highly specific to a given individual.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

And forward body position puts weight on your hands creating numbness or stresses your shoulders giving you back pain again as your back tries to accommodate.

What did you think the SQlab (Asclepios in English) Innerbarends were invented for? So close to the drop handlebar hoods. Your back becomes straight and relieved in that riding position!

 

[dynamic]

What did you think the SQlab (Asclepios in English) Innerbarends were invented for? So close to the drop handlebar hoods. Your back becomes straight and relieved in that riding position!

Don't know. I sent mine back due to lack of usefulness.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Don't know. I sent mine back due to lack of usefulness.

 

[Rich W.]

Think these would be over the top…… with blips?

 

[Duce]

Oh my Goodness, what a helpful and spirited forum. Thank you for your feedback. I started to address each of your quotes thanking you for your thoughtfulness and the value of your real-life feedback, but it got to be a lot. Let me just say Thank you. You all have each given me a lot to think about.

@dynamic I don't have room for a Peloton in my house, my wife would kill me. The good news is that I live in Sunny Los Angeles, and working-out outside is pretty much a 350 day a year opportunity. Chalk this up to wonderful outdoor air conditioning, beautiful views, crowded streets (Varia will be helpful here), and an itty-bitty living space. I will get professionally fitted to the bike however. I think that will only help (and make me spend more money on stuff), and will hopefully make riding the bike more enjoyable.

@Stefan Mikes Thank you for your guidance on the lower back concerns. It gives me hope that I am not going to buy this bike and not be able to use it. I will also lookup SQLab Innerbarends, I just saw them on Amazon, which has a great return policy if they don't work out.

I think I might try to find the Serial 1 for a demo or test drive.

Lastly, it seems as if the Specialized site is not working. They might be doing some maintenance on it. Bike Product Pages are not coming up. Fingers crossed they are releasing some new product rather than just a code update.

 

[Duce]

Oh, of course I just remembered this. Does anybody know if it is possible to manually limit the Assist speed? Maybe make it operate more like a class 1 rather than a Class 3? Seems like this could be easily done.

 

[dynamic]

Lastly, it seems as if the Specialized site is not working.

Standard specialized.

Innerbarends and sqlabs are good products and brand. But they aren’t magic. And they only work in the context of a correct overall bike fit.

The bike that fits me best is my peloton. Getting the same fit on a real bike is much harder. My wife rides the peloton more than I do. Your wife may love it. but, I live in vermont, so outdoor time is limited.

 

[dynamic]

Does anybody know if it is possible to manually limit the Assist speed?

I think I saw that in mission control. But I have tried so many systems I can’t remember which was which anymore. Should be documented though.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Think these would be over the top…… with blips?

Rich, I was considering Redshift Aerobars for my Vado SL, where anything that could improve the low power e-bike performance would be gladly welcomed. Not. I chickened out I'm unable to ride my e-bikes hands free and could not imagine myself the very act of going from the handlebars to aerobars

Lastly, it seems as if the Specialized site is not working. They might be doing some maintenance on it.

It happens when the contents is changing, and the site goes back to normal in minutes. The U.S. site is working for me now.

Oh, of course I just remembered this. Does anybody know if it is possible to manually limit the Assist speed? Maybe make it operate more like a class 1 rather than a Class 3? Seems like this could be easily done.

You cannot do it yourself (it is the e-bike Class matter). With Vado/Como/Tero your dealer can change the class from 1 to 3 or from 3 to 1. It is pointless though. You can freely tune the assistance level with Mission Control. With, say, 40/40% assistance you will be actually riding at Class 1 speed on a Vado. The Class sticker? Oh. The easiest thing to get in the U.S.

Innerbarends and sqlabs are good products and brand. But they aren’t magic. And they only work in the context of a correct overall bike fit.

SQlab Innerbarends work OK after you have found their correct angle on the bars. For me, it's magic. After I found the correct angle (around 60 deg from the horizontal), I cannot move my hands onto the grips anymore!

A crop of a photo from last Sunday. I keep the Innerbarends intuitively!

The bike that fits me best is my peloton. Getting the same fit on a real bike is much harder.

Try riding the Peloton for 4 hours 20 minutes net on Sunday.

 

[McCorby]

Honestly? I think there is a coin battery for that. The gearing certainly works while the bike is off. At least, I think it did. But I don't know for sure.

Nope and nope. It uses the bike’s battery and goes to a default gear ratio when the bike is powered off or the battery dies.