Vado 5.0 IGH versus Tero 5.0 (EQ pack)

Whatever it is they're being pretty hush-hush about it. No different than what auto manufacturers do before a big reveal, I guess.
this takes me nicely to another question i have been meaning to ask - there are some pretty sizeable discounts on certain turbo and non-turbo specialized lines in the UK - not sure if same elsewhere in the world.

Being new in the game can those more seasoned let me know if this is an annual event with specialized in jan/feb or is this a one-off postcovid excess stock clearance before new and hush-hush lines are revealed?
 
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I came across this image posted over at the emtb forum and wondered if anyone has heard any whisperings about a FS Tero? I personally couldn’t find anything related to it on Spec’d site.


View attachment 147754
I saw that too - searched for a while and found nothing else on it.
 
Tero is already a bit of a misfit. This would only make it worse. Why not just buy a Levo?
Honestly? Because a Levo is a Trail e-MTB and as such is the most unfit for urban rides. An e-bike called Levo HT did not sell, has been discontinued and replaced with the Tero. Levo HT had no appeal to the urban folk who would occasionally ride some fire-roads.

Specialized competitors all try to come up with "all-rounder" FS (SUV) e-bikes, and the rack being the part of the sprung mass is not a rare thing. R&M has been into it for a long time, now I could see a Giant e-bike in the segment...

For me, a heavy SUV e-bike is something I would not like to buy but it is convincing for urban types with money, the same people who drive SUVs. A (former) renowned member of this Forum David Berry in Australia was riding for some 10,000 miles per annum on a Riese & Muller Homage, a good example of a SUV e-bike.
 
this takes me nicely to another question i have been meaning to ask - there are some pretty sizeable discounts on certain turbo and non-turbo specialized lines in the UK - not sure if same elsewhere in the world.

Being new in the game can those more seasoned let me know if this is an annual event with specialized in jan/feb or is this a one-off postcovid excess stock clearance before new and hush-hush lines are revealed?
Here in Canada, I personally haven’t seen significant or any seasonal discounts for that matter being offered on Spec’d lineup. I was only able to receive a 15% discount + free shipping on a Creo that I haggled for and purchased well before the pandemic. Consider yourself fortunate.

About two months ago, I did come across a brand new 2021 Lg Creo Comp Carbon listed for sale on Pinkbike through a local dealer selling for $6000 Cdn ($4400 US) which was a great deal at the time. It was snapped up within the week. Like anything else, most want the latest and greatest models and this particular dated version didn’t come with the new mastermind TCU so it was likely a case of the shop wanting to unload it for a quick sale.
 
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this takes me nicely to another question i have been meaning to ask - there are some pretty sizeable discounts on certain turbo and non-turbo specialized lines in the UK - not sure if same elsewhere in the world.
These discounts are offered now not only in the UK but also in the EU. The point is, the discounts are offered on e-bikes in the sizes that do not sell such as XXL or XL.
Of course I would be happy to buy a Creo for the equivalent of 3500 British Pounds... but need the M or S size.
 
About two months ago, I did come across a brand new 2021 Lg Creo Comp Carbon listed for sale on Pinkbike through a local dealer selling for $6000 Cdn ($4400 US) which was a great deal at the time. It was snapped up within the week. Like anything else, most want the latest and greatest models and this particular dated version didn’t come with the new mastermind TCU so it was likely a case of the shop wanting to unload it for a quick sale.
The bike sold back in Dec '22 but I see that the ad remains up albeit marked as SOLD.

 
For me, a heavy SUV e-bike is something I would not like to buy but it is convincing for urban types with money, the same people who drive SUVs. A (former) renowned member of this Forum David Berry in Australia was riding for some 10,000 miles per annum on a Riese & Muller Homage, a good example of a SUV e-bike.
Definitely - if their marketing folks see sales potential, they’ll launch it and it will most likely sell, whether its a good product or not. I’ve finally massaged my Tero into something usable, but not without spending some time (and money) on the learning curve.
 
@DeepintheShires As you probably already suspect, I have joined the ranks of people warning others to *not* get the IGH models. That said, I may try a second time. There is *no question* in my mind that the vado 5.0 IGH, when working properly, is the best bike I have ridden in my electric bike search. My wife wants a bike now and is leaning toward a como IGH model. The only reason she hasn't pulled the trigger is because our poor experience with *all* enviolo IGH models across multiple brands. Whether it's the IGH, surrounding products, or something else, every model/bike had *some* kind of drive train issues. Aside: the freewheel assembly is the most likely cause of these problems. But I was never able to inspect it on one of the broken bikes.

Some people have no issues with the IGH. If I were one of them, I would be immensely happy with it. If chain isn't an issue for you, any vado/como regular or SL model is a spectacular bike. Pick one, and run with it. I am going to rent a chain model for a few days in the spring when I can do my backroads rides again. If I enjoy it and don't get frustrated with the chain, I may grab one of those models. If my fitness has improved enough, I would absolutely choose an SL 5.0 EQ model with range extender. In Yellow. Love it!

Over the winter I have been doing peloton (2-5 times per week). And, that has made winter riding completely undesirable. This has changed the equation because I no longer feel belt is as much of a priority from a salty/winter riding scenario. My biggest complaint on my FLX is that shifting is a huge interruption to the riding experience. Maybe worse than chain. But, it is otherwise a good bike with frey smooth tune and egg rider.

What I can say is specialized stands behind their products and their customers. Which is why they are still on the list for me.
 
@DeepintheShires As you probably already suspect, I have joined the ranks of people warning others to *not* get the IGH models. That said, I may try a second time. There is *no question* in my mind that the vado 5.0 IGH, when working properly, is the best bike I have ridden in my electric bike search. My wife wants a bike now and is leaning toward a como IGH model. The only reason she hasn't pulled the trigger is because our poor experience with *all* enviolo IGH models across multiple brands. Whether it's the IGH, surrounding products, or something else, every model/bike had *some* kind of drive train issues. Aside: the freewheel assembly is the most likely cause of these problems. But I was never able to inspect it on one of the broken bikes.

Some people have no issues with the IGH. If I were one of them, I would be immensely happy with it. If chain isn't an issue for you, any vado/como regular or SL model is a spectacular bike. Pick one, and run with it. I am going to rent a chain model for a few days in the spring when I can do my backroads rides again. If I enjoy it and don't get frustrated with the chain, I may grab one of those models. If my fitness has improved enough, I would absolutely choose an SL 5.0 EQ model with range extender. In Yellow. Love it!

Over the winter I have been doing peloton (2-5 times per week). And, that has made winter riding completely undesirable. This has changed the equation because I no longer feel belt is as much of a priority from a salty/winter riding scenario. My biggest complaint on my FLX is that shifting is a huge interruption to the riding experience. Maybe worse than chain. But, it is otherwise a good bike with frey smooth tune and egg rider.

What I can say is specialized stands behind their products and their customers. Which is why they are still on the list for me.
@dynamic thanks for that summary. Could you please clarify if you are warning against all belt drives or just the ones with automatic gearbox? I haven’t crossed off the Como 4.0 Igh with twist shift.

I rode the turbo Vado SL and was blown away by the nimble and responsive ride. But alas the 15kg rear rack weight limit won’t cut the mustard with a growing 3yr old.

By the way, the yellow is also my favourite - with you on that one! Though sadly these days, while being noticeable is desirable for safety it also attracts the wrong kind of attention I feel. It remains a tightrope walk in any area prone to bike thefts.
 
Could you please clarify if you are warning against all belt drives or just the ones with automatic gearbox?

The short version: I have no idea.

Longer Version: The automatic aspect is absolutely the best thing to happen to bikes from a riding experience perspective. But could it be that the automatic is responsible for the issues a lot of us are seeing? Honestly? Maybe. I certainly am more aware of users struggling with the 5.0 than other models. But it is impossible to tell without analyzing specialized warranty/support/communication information if there is a correlation there.

In *theory*, the way the automatic works could be putting more stress on other aspects of the bike (and maybe also the hub). In practice, I have no idea if that is true. Typically, on a manual enviolo, how much you can shift and when is limited by pedal power. For example, you can't shift into the highest or lowest gear ratio when stopped. You have to be moving. You also can't shift the entire gear range when stopped, only about 1/3 from where you are and not *all the way* to either end without being in motion. You also can't shift under heavy load. But moderate pedaling works great. These are non-issues in practice. If manually shifting, the enviolo experience is absolutely my favorite (still beats the rohloff on my current bike). Second only to the automatic version.

None of those limits exist on the automatic. The automatic smoothly moves through the entire gear range rapidly based on cadence setting. Now, I experienced enviolo calibration problems, slipping problems and sensor problems on my specialized vado. The sensor problems probably were not related to the IGH in any way (I hope). It took specialized 2 weeks to fix that. They also "fixed" the calibration problems. The slipping problems were never fixed and their answer was to throw parts at the bike. In this case, a new enviolo hub. The problem is, an enviolo hub is not serviceable by *anyone*. And the design is very unlikely to slip unless the hub *is* broken. This leaves parts outside of the hub as the most likely cause of issues. ( and if broken enviolo hubs *is* the issue, they have a QC problem and maybe a design problem around automatiq ).

If I were to take a guess, the automatic allows the user to apply massive torque assisted by the motor during shift changes that would otherwise by highly limited in a manual shift setting. That said, I had a different slipping on a manual enviolo bike. There would be a loud "crack" and the pedals would jump under load on that bike. On the vado, the pedaling got really light like the bike was rapidly switching from the heaviest to the lightest gear instantaneously (which it can't physically do). It would do that on every downstroke of the pedals for an extended period of time. Then the problem would go away. It was very disconcerting.

Both of the above problems could have been due to a problematic free wheel assembly. But if that's the case, then I generated those problems on *3 different enviolo bikes* in very short mileage only one of which was automatic. Not a good track record.

At the end of the day, my biggest problem with the vado IGH (or any IGH) is: We could never identify the source of the issue. This mean there was zero chance of acting preventatively or correcting the problem long term. I *LOVE* the bike. And I hope either the knowledge to address this becomes available or updated versions correct whatever is causing these issues.

while being noticeable is desirable for safety it also attracts the wrong kind of attention I feel.

I'm with you. But luckily, theft is not a big issue where I am. I would get it in pink and yellow neon stripes if I could. ;)

Sorry that isn't more helpful. I am struggling with the same decision again myself. The experience of the vado IGH, when working, is second to none.
 
The short version: I have no idea.

Longer Version: The automatic aspect is absolutely the best thing to happen to bikes from a riding experience perspective. But could it be that the automatic is responsible for the issues a lot of us are seeing? Honestly? Maybe. I certainly am more aware of users struggling with the 5.0 than other models. But it is impossible to tell without analyzing specialized warranty/support/communication information if there is a correlation there.

In *theory*, the way the automatic works could be putting more stress on other aspects of the bike (and maybe also the hub). In practice, I have no idea if that is true. Typically, on a manual enviolo, how much you can shift and when is limited by pedal power. For example, you can't shift into the highest or lowest gear ratio when stopped. You have to be moving. You also can't shift the entire gear range when stopped, only about 1/3 from where you are and not *all the way* to either end without being in motion. You also can't shift under heavy load. But moderate pedaling works great. These are non-issues in practice. If manually shifting, the enviolo experience is absolutely my favorite (still beats the rohloff on my current bike). Second only to the automatic version.

None of those limits exist on the automatic. The automatic smoothly moves through the entire gear range rapidly based on cadence setting. Now, I experienced enviolo calibration problems, slipping problems and sensor problems on my specialized vado. The sensor problems probably were not related to the IGH in any way (I hope). It took specialized 2 weeks to fix that. They also "fixed" the calibration problems. The slipping problems were never fixed and their answer was to throw parts at the bike. In this case, a new enviolo hub. The problem is, an enviolo hub is not serviceable by *anyone*. And the design is very unlikely to slip unless the hub *is* broken. This leaves parts outside of the hub as the most likely cause of issues. ( and if broken enviolo hubs *is* the issue, they have a QC problem and maybe a design problem around automatiq ).

If I were to take a guess, the automatic allows the user to apply massive torque assisted by the motor during shift changes that would otherwise by highly limited in a manual shift setting. That said, I had a different slipping on a manual enviolo bike. There would be a loud "crack" and the pedals would jump under load on that bike. On the vado, the pedaling got really light like the bike was rapidly switching from the heaviest to the lightest gear instantaneously (which it can't physically do). It would do that on every downstroke of the pedals for an extended period of time. Then the problem would go away. It was very disconcerting.

Both of the above problems could have been due to a problematic free wheel assembly. But if that's the case, then I generated those problems on *3 different enviolo bikes* in very short mileage only one of which was automatic. Not a good track record.

At the end of the day, my biggest problem with the vado IGH (or any IGH) is: We could never identify the source of the issue. This mean there was zero chance of acting preventatively or correcting the problem long term. I *LOVE* the bike. And I hope either the knowledge to address this becomes available or updated versions correct whatever is causing these issues.



I'm with you. But luckily, theft is not a big issue where I am. I would get it in pink and yellow neon stripes if I could. ;)

Sorry that isn't more helpful. I am struggling with the same decision again myself. The experience of the vado IGH, when working, is second to none.
We are the guinea pigs, the beta testers. We should be honored by Specialized for reporting and testing all their new stuff. We are the defacto source of reality. Specialized is just marketing their warez. We actually buy them, try them, love them, or hate them.

Search, and read, you will become educated.
 
We are the guinea pigs, the beta testers. We should be honored by Specialized for reporting and testing all their new stuff. We are the defacto source of reality. Specialized is just marketing their warez. We actually buy them, try them, love them, or hate them.

Search, and read, you will become educated.
Exactly! As an example, I’ve finally managed to make my Tero live up to the claims on their website. I often had to go back and re-read it to try to understand what they were thinking when the launched a heavy XC/SUV bike with MTB gears and class 1 limit (and what I was thinking when I bought it). Now, with a 44T chain ring and an 11-50 cassette, the EQ kit, and set to class 3, (and a lot or other minor mods), it will actually do this:

“The new Turbo Tero is an electric mountain bike equipped for everyday rides. A mountain bike that you can commute on. A commuter you can take touring. A touring bike that you can haul freight with. Whatever you need it to be, for wherever you want to go. A true do-it-all superhero, Tero combines adaptable utility with World Champion mountain bike DNA and category-leading electric pedal assist.”
 
Exactly! As an example, I’ve finally managed to make my Tero live up to the claims on their website. I often had to go back and re-read it to try to understand what they were thinking when the launched a heavy XC/SUV bike with MTB gears and class 1 limit (and what I was thinking when I bought it). Now, with a 44T chain ring and an 11-50 cassette, the EQ kit, and set to class 3, (and a lot or other minor mods), it will actually do this:

“The new Turbo Tero is an electric mountain bike equipped for everyday rides. A mountain bike that you can commute on. A commuter you can take touring. A touring bike that you can haul freight with. Whatever you need it to be, for wherever you want to go. A true do-it-all superhero, Tero combines adaptable utility with World Champion mountain bike DNA and category-leading electric pedal assist.”
How did you set it to class 3?
 
How did you set it to class 3?
My LBS did it - Spesh sent put an email to new owners offering it N/C. It now has a sticker about half the size of a postage stamp at the bottom of the seat tube proclaiming “ class 3” so of course I stay off the trails….
 
Introducing Tero 6.0 “Living up to the 5.0 description”

DFABC6BA-4E61-41DC-B941-9364EE620885.jpeg

Tero 5.0
Class 3 upgrade
SQLabs Grips w/bar ends
SQLabs Road bike stem
Garmin Varia radar
Garmin Edge 530
Serfas mirror
Lizard Skins seat bag/roadside repair kit
Spesh alloy MTB pedals
PNW suspension dropper
Praxis 44T Chain ring
SRAM 12sp 11-50 cassette
SRAM 12sp chain
SRAM Eagle AXS upgrade kit
Spesh EQ fender/rack/lights kit
 
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To the OP, the Tero is a beast but over the top for your purposes. If I were going to spec a bike for your needs, I’d suggest the Vado 4.0. It will do everything you want and cost about $2700 less than my Tero after upgrades. Just take a look at Tero Vs Vado gearing and that should be enough. Add the EQ stuff, and the difference in size/weight/bulk of the 29er Tero, and the 27kg OE rack on the Vado, and you should have your answer. Also highly recommend a mirror and Varia for road riding (integrated radar incl. on Vado 5.0).
 
Introducing Tero 6.0 “Living up to the 5.0 description”

View attachment 147911
Tero 5.0
Class 3 upgrade
SQLabs Grips w/bar ends
SQLabs Road bike stem
Garmin Varia radar
Garmin Edge 530
Serfas mirror
Lizard Skins seat bag/roadside repair kit
Spesh alloy MTB pedals
PNW suspension dropper
Praxis 44T Chain ring
SRAM 12sp 11-50 cassette
SRAM 12sp chain
SRAM Eagle AXS upgrade kit
Spesh EQ fender/rack/lights kit
That’s a super helpful list of things to consider - areas to consider when purchasing the Tero 5.0 as is. BTW how is the PNW dropper susp post?
 
To the OP, the Tero is a beast but over the top for your purposes. If I were going to spec a bike for your needs, I’d suggest the Vado 4.0. It will do everything you want and cost about $2700 less than my Tero after upgrades. Just take a look at Tero Vs Vado gearing and that should be enough. Add the EQ stuff, and the difference in size/weight/bulk of the 29er Tero, and the 27kg OE rack on the Vado, and you should have your answer. Also highly recommend a mirror and Varia for road riding (integrated radar incl. on Vado 5.0).
@Rich W. thank you for your candour regarding what would suit me better. I absolutely agree there are more prudent options.

Confession - I started looking at the 5.0 based on colour(!). The 4.0 EQ (far more suitable) colours were either too sensible or too bold - for me!

The Tero 5.0 fast becomes a pit where I keep throwing money in to fit my needs. Especially considering the missing fenders, lights and radar from the Vado 5.0 IGH. My head has also advised me not to go down the Tero 5.0 route, but if I always listened to my head my life would be a lot simpler…
 
Typically, on a manual enviolo, how much you can shift and when is limited by pedal power. For example, you can't shift into the highest or lowest gear ratio when stopped. You have to be moving. You also can't shift the entire gear range when stopped, only about 1/3 from where you are and not *all the way* to either end without being in motion.
@dynamic I was completely under the impression that the manual enviolo CVT gearing can be changed (as much as one wanted) when stationary - that it was a significant feature. Did I misunderstand what you wrote in your message?

Thanks again for the breakdown of your theory regarding the IGH issues which were consistently were hard to diagnose. That is one of the messages I got from @GuruUno ’s posts too.

‘The more I learn, the less I know for sure’
 
@dynamic I was completely under the impression that the manual enviolo CVT gearing can be changed (as much as one wanted) when stationary - that it was a significant feature. Did I misunderstand what you wrote in your message?

You can change while stopped. But you can't go to the extremes of the range. Again, this is a non-issue. You don't shift to first gear at a stop light. And even if you stop on a hard hill, you don't need to go that low. So, it was simply a curious observation of the enviolo hub. It's more like you can only go down to second gear when stopped. And 10 (out of 12) at the high point (This is assuming you aren't already in one of those gears or very close to it). I have also been told it will loosen up in time. But, again, my bikes didn't get that much time before they started having issues.

So, for example, if you were in "10" (I am assigning arbitrary numbers out of 12 to a continuous system for illustrative purposes), stopped and tried to shift up, you probably could get into 11 and *maybe* 12. But, if you were in 6, you probably wouldn't get much further than 9. Or 2-3 in the other direction *while stopped*.

In 300-400 miles on this style of manual shifting bike, it was never once a problem. And, as you have probably read in other posts, I am a super nit picky user who expects stuff to work "right" 100% of the time. So, again, I wouldn't worry about this. You will see what I mean if you get such a bike.

@GuruUno And I both had less than stellar experiences. And, the problem I have as I have gone back to many posts about this bike that convinced me to buy it, and there is invariably a message from the OP 3-6 months later about how the bike is in the shop because it's not working right.

but to sum up ranked in terms of rider experience:

Automatic IGH > manual IGH > chain

in terms of reliability and serviceability:

chain > manual IGH = automatic IGH ( until data says otherwise ).

Again, if chain isn't an issue for you, just go buy the chain version and don't think about IGH. Don't put yourself on one, realize the luxuriousness of it and then realize no one knows how to keep them running after you have sunk your money into it. Don't do that.

Do buy a kinect seatpost. So much better than the others. Unless you are going offroad at all or you need the frame capacity for cargo, buy the como instead of the vado. The 5.0 radar is glorious (I now have the rechargeable one with a light, and while it's still good, the mastermind integration with a varia you don't need to charge is even better). I won't ride a bike without a varia on it. That's path leads to the dark side.

To me, this means 5.0 como chain model. Never think about your bike again. If you want the fastest model, buy the red one. Otherwise, live with second place. ;)
 
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