ToSeven DM Series Mid Motors

[knightrider]

My experience with the dmo2 has been strange. First I got bad components with the kit. Display wouldn`t power up, then with a replacement display it powered up and the speed sensor would not work. John n/o sent me a speed sensor that fixed the problem. The unit started running for a short period and would kick off. It would just quit yielding power assist but not go off line. The display stayed powered up it just would not assist for a few seconds. I thought this was happening due to over heating as the motor felt hot to the touch. This persisted as long as I ran it for about a week. I went into the bios and reset the chain ring tooth count and the rear cog count to the proper numbers. I was running this build as a single speed with a 38 chain ring and a 16t rear cog. The kicking off went away. I then decided to put the motor on another frame set with a nine speed set up. This time I set the gears I was using in the bios. I put on a 36t chain ring and a 46 by 13 cassette. The damn thing has never kicked off again. I have been so impressed with the little unit after dialing it in that I ordered another one for a friends build. Explain this one for me. I have built over 50 ebikes with every thing motor wise out there. This one takes the cake.

 

[PedalUma]

@knightrider,
I just got the new programing software. I so hope it works. This bike has been unusable for months and it is not mine, it is a clients. My first of these went off without a hitch.

 

[knightrider]

@knightrider,
I just got the new programing software. I so hope it works. This bike has been unusable for months and it is not mine, it is a clients. My first of these went off without a hitch.

Don`t know what to make of em for sure. This one after all that I mentioned has leveled out and is really impressive. Hopefully yours will work out as well. Never seen one act like these. As I mentioned earlier the support from manufacture is lame. I bought this first one from Nerd Out. He was most helpful sending me a display and speed sensor as they were both no good. What is the odds of getting two bad components in one kit. The T 15 display that came with it never powered up. The speed sensor seemed to be broken or something. It was not anything like the sensor John sent me to replace it.

 

[PedalUma]

The app shell wouldn't take the com port and save it. So it could not communicate and other problems and program addresses that were flawed. I will now need to install a new motor. I have a spare, or a barley used, road tested TSDZ2-B from another bike. I know that will work. It is at a friend's for storage and some of my special tools are at the downtown shop where I work. It will require multiple trips. That bike will not fit into my private shop's door, it is so wide.

 

[knightrider]

The app shell wouldn't take the com port and save it. So it could not communicate and other problems and program addresses that were flawed. I will now need to install a new motor. I have a spare, or a barley used, road tested TSDZ2-B from another bike. I know that will work. It is at a friend's for storage and some of my special tools are at the downtown shop where I work. It will require multiple trips. That bike will not fit into my private shop's door, it is so wide.

I know that sucks. I don`t know why we can`t have some things that just work. Why do we have to tinker and why isn`t things like chargers and plugs standardized across the industry. I think that is why I use so many bbso2 and a particular batt. that is 260.00 plus tax. I have bought many of them both and installed them for customers and myself. I have had excellent results and the continual use lets one have redundancy. Yea torque sensing is nice but I use some of the custom tuning on the bafangs with great results and customer satisfaction. Like others have stated the HD is just a work horse for power and integrity. Not trying to plug them here just stating a fact. I have 4 different brands of motors on my own bikes. The simple design just works and the availability of parts is a plus also. I do like the ability to adjust with my phone though. This as you know can be just to buy a different display for the bafang. Now the cyc is the cat`s meow but just damn expensive to try and sell to someone. PedalUma a lot of my building is for the not so fortunate people that use them in place of a auto as they are poor and cannot afford a car and the insurance. I find donor bikes and order china doll motors to make bikes for them. We spoiled brats are the ones that are picky. The poor people just need cheap transportation. Sorry for getting off subject and ranting.

 

[knightrider]

random builds

 

[PedalUma]

Even expensive new bikes from well known brands have problems. One guy has had so many problems we are getting him a replacement bike for free with a $300 credit for assembly and moving over his accessories. We have replaced everything under the warranty following the mfg's instructions and his bike still has problems. He got it in early July. It is a Haul LT.

 

[knightrider]

Good of you to go the distance to make it right. Rare trait in retail and service industry these days. I find these so called well known brands are better off not being known sometimes. It is a shame we can`t make things in this country anymore. I am 71 yrs. old and well remember the quality products we produced. Not anymore. So Sad. I can honestly say that every bike built in my shop is the best I can do or it is not sold.

 

[PedalUma]

Johnny is aware. Buy from a reputable domestic dealer.

 

[Ken Shopken]

DM01 control and display issues have developed.

A controller issue (I believe) has developed. The kit was installed in July and has about 200 miles on it.

On its last ride, output was very limited so I knew a problem was developing. The speed sensor output reading became erratic when selecting pas modes as well.

The next day the display showed a discharged battery right after fully charging it. I verified a fully charged battery with a volt meter.

I went into settings and did a factory reset, followed by selecting again the correct battery voltage and cut off voltage etc.

Riding about the shop, performance seems to have returned for now, but the display is still showing a discharged battery.

Putting the display in the test mode display shows that the controller is capable of the full range of display.

Problem still persists.

I contacted Johnny Nerd Out, he recommended doing a firmware update.

I sent another contact request as supplied on the ToSeven webpage, but they have not responded. I am not surprised as they have not answered the last 2 requests.

Absolutely NO customer response, How pathetic.

What a shame as I have been wanting to install multiple numbers of their kits, and really like the DM01, but I will have to go with the new Tongshen or Cyc.

I will post this on the Discord page for High Voltage and the Endless Sphere DIY... maybe someone from ToSeven will check out their non existent customer service... or perhaps it may serve at least as a warning to any other potential customers / "one shot dump sales" plunder victims.

Thanks for whatever you can help with here..

 

[PedalUma]

I replaced the dud motor with a new ToSeven DM02 and road tested it today. It works. With a new 48V battery fully charged to 54.4 volts the display recognized it as a not fully charged 52V battery. That is no biggie. Riding it down and turning it back on will self correct that. Even though enabled, it did not recognize the throttle. I probably should have run the diagnostic. Again, no biggie, it has a torque sensor, so I just removed the throttle and delivered the bike to my customer. John Lange may want the dud for parts or to install a new controller in it. I will see if then send a return label. They did offer a full refund. That is why I hung in there with To7. I would be happy just to get a replacement motor.

Off topic: A guy handed me a non-working battery on Tuesday. It works now. I gave it a USB in through the USB output for four hours. That safely woke the BMS and allowed me to give it a charge.

 

[linklemming]

Ken,

I see that you have a DM01 installed on your bike.

Im curious what chainring you are using and how your chainline is

I just test fitted a DM01(with a 1mm bb spacer on the drive side) with 42t offset(to the inside) chainring last night (BBSHD previously) and the chainline ended up being 7mm further out than my BBSHD or CYC photon builds on the same frame (Surly Ogre). Given the cassette spacing, it appears the lowest two gears in this setup will be unusable.

Are you able to use all the gears on your cassette?

 

[Ken Shopken]

Ken,

I see that you have a DM01 installed on your bike.

Im curious what chainring you are using and how your chainline is

I just test fitted a DM01(with a 1mm bb spacer on the drive side) with 42t offset(to the inside) chainring last night (BBSHD previously) and the chainline ended up being 7mm further out than my BBSHD or CYC photon builds on the same frame (Surly Ogre). Given the cassette spacing, it appears the lowest two gears in this setup will be unusable.

Are you able to use all the gears on your cassette?

I am running the offset 46T sprocket. The chain is a bit tortured on my largest 2 rear sprockets, but I dont use them for very long.

I tried to run the offset 42T but it does not fit the DM01 without grinding on the motor (questionable) or spacing the sprocket away from motor contact. It would loose too much of the offset to run a 10 or 11 speed cog.

I installed the KMC E11 chain. Not cheap but its holding up to the abuse so far..

Live and learn, I will use a hub transmission on the next one, as the DM01 has enough power without needing the 11 speeds and pulls hard in low gear with the offset 46T.

I dont know if the images help, but I snapped a few when I gave up on installing the offset 42T.

 

[Ken Shopken]

I replaced the dud motor with a new ToSeven DM02 and road tested it today. It works. With a new 48V battery fully charged to 54.4 volts the display recognized it as a not fully charged 52V battery. That is no biggie. Riding it down and turning it back on will self correct that. Even though enabled, it did not recognize the throttle. I probably should have run the diagnostic. Again, no biggie, it has a torque sensor, so I just removed the throttle and delivered the bike to my customer. John Lange may want the dud for parts or to install a new controller in it. I will see if then send a return label. They did offer a full refund. That is why I hung in there with To7. I would be happy just to get a replacement motor.

Off topic: A guy handed me a non-working battery on Tuesday. It works now. I gave it a USB in through the USB output for four hours. That safely woke the BMS and allowed me to give it a charge.

Glad you worked out a solution for your customers bike with John.

also- Good tip on potential recovery of an overly discharged battery through the usb port!

 

[linklemming]

I am running the offset 46T sprocket. The chain is a bit tortured on my largest 2 rear sprockets, but I dont use them for very long.

I tried to run the offset 42T but it does not fit the DM01 without grinding on the motor (questionable) or spacing the sprocket away from motor contact. It would loose too much of the offset to run a 10 or 11 speed cog.

Interesting....I dont have any fitment issues with my offset 42t other then the horrendous chainline

Im curious if the 42t chainring you have is mounted on the inside or the outside of the chainring spider(the center part the chainring bolts to). On mine, its mounted on the outside but looks like I just might be able to get it to work on the inside, giving me 5mm or so better chainline. If I did this it looks like it just may rub where you are showing.

While I dont use the 2 biggest gears on the cassette that often in relation to the miles I ride, I definately use them at last once per ride so not being able to use them would be a no go. I have lived with an 11-36 9 speed for years with 42t front and if anything I would like an 11-42t. I could go with an (11-50)11 speed linkglide cassette and not use the two biggest gears and still have a max 36t rear cog but that cassette is arond $130 (the 9 speed version is around $30)

 

[Ken Shopken]

Interesting....I dont have any fitment issues with my offset 42t other then the horrendous chainline

Im curious if the 42t chainring you have is mounted on the inside or the outside of the chainring spider(the center part the chainring bolts to). On mine, its mounted on the outside but looks like I just might be able to get it to work on the inside, giving me 5mm or so better chainline. If I did this it looks like it just may rub where you are showing.

While I dont use the 2 biggest gears on the cassette that often in relation to the miles I ride, I definately use them at last once per ride so not being able to use them would be a no go. I have lived with an 11-36 9 speed for years with 42t front and if anything I would like an 11-42t. I could go with an (11-50)11 speed linkglide cassette and not use the two biggest gears and still have a max 36t rear cog but that cassette is arond $130 (the 9 speed version is around $30)

Sorry- I was at error and you are correct- I tried to fit the 38T which I could not practically fit, and ended up with the 42T on the bike.

I am currently running an 11-42 9 Sram cassette. I thought that I may have needed a larger rear cog for very steep climbs when I could not fit the 38T, but low gear has already surpassed what I expected for climbing capabilities on fairly steep hillclimbs on dirt bike trails. As long as my tires can get enough bite, I can climb it.

I have the sprocket mounted to the inside of the spider. There is quite a bit of room to move the sprocket towards the larger rear sprocket chainline with the use of spacers under the spider, but my compromise seems to work okay even with quite a bit of misalignment in 9th and 42 sprockets.

 

[linklemming]

Well I tried moving the 42t chainring to the inside of the spider but the chainring now contacts the motor housing.

My surly ogres only allow a 42t max chainring so it appears I am SOL

 

[m@Robertson]

I installed the KMC E11 chain. Not cheap but its holding up to the abuse so far..

I have had excellent results with the KMC e11 myself. My Surly Big Fat Dummy uses two of them connected together to make an 180-link chain with a high torque setup (28T in front and 11-51T in the back) and one of my Bullitts has a KMC e11 running at 4100 miles and counting, although its a 2wd bike so I am cheating on the stress it receives.

But they are something like $55 a pop which does sting. I bought five Connex 11SE's when Jenson USA had them on sale for $25 each (versus the usual $105). Thats clearly not a long term solution since it was a one-off sale.

But the whole reason I'm posting at all is because there does now seem to be an 10s/11s mid drive chain that doesn't break the bank. The Shimano Linkglide 11s chain is about $25, and Shimano at least pays good lip service to it being mid drive stressed. I have a couple of them destined for the BFD when it finally wears its chain out (jumping ahead of the line to take the place of a couple of Connex'). Everything I have heard from DIY types is it is a winner for a higher powered motor.

 

[linklemming]

I have used KMC e specific chains in 9/10/11s exclusively and have never had an issue for likely 20k miles. But yes, they are $$$

I am now transitioning to the Linkglide system on all my bikes. All 9/10/11s are compatible in that cog spacing is basically 11s. In addition the cassettes have a solid spider for the larger gears. My higher power higher mileage ebikes (CYC photon/BBSHD) are using the 9s cassette and shifter do to the low cost of the 9s cassette ($30). My true MTBs(Turbo Levo and Luna X2) are using the 11 speed cassettes for the additional larger rear gears (unfortunately $130 but I could swap in a $80 10 speed easily just by adjusting the limit screws on the rear derailler)

 

[m@Robertson]

For years, I swore by KMC x9e and e9 chains. That or the e11. But in recent years, the market has given us new options. Many moons ago I did a whole SRAM EX1 drivetrain ($$$), which in 2024 I would never even consider.

For 9s clusters, Microshift Advent has an 11-46T that is solid, hardened steel cogs. Pinned together all over the place and even the 11T cog is steel. And its like $40. For 10s, Microshift Advent X is the same durable animal as the 9s in 11-48T and its about $45. For 11s clusters, the strongest is the Sunrace CSMS7 which is all steel again, and also pinned-together. Steel spiders. 11-42T but they just released an 11-46T. About $60. The BFD uses a Sunrace CSMS8 which is all steel except for the 51T cog, which I can live with. But now we've bumped up to about $105. But if you want ultra wide range and 11s thats the only one I'd trust with a BBSHD.

For my 9s setups I have been using the SRAM EX1 chain, which is compatible with 8s thru 10S and is $25 or less. Indestructible. For 10 and 11s I've been using just 11s chains. The narrower exterior of the 11s makes a 10s as quiet as a belt and an 11s chain's interior dimensions are the same as 10s so it works just as well.

For derailleurs I've used Box 2 and Microshift for 9s, Advent X for 10S. SRAM GX for 11s. I have to say the Advent X is my favorite of the bunch for cost and smoothness. But the Box 2 ultra wide long cage is the slickest. And the most expensive..

As far as I can see, Most of the Linkglide system is just Shimano offering what you can get elsewhere for less $. In particular their cassettes. But if I wanted a wide range 11s derailleur, I'd have to go Linkglide. SRAM maxes out at 42T.