The Tariff Questions?

[Mike_V]

Tariffs are a basic mistake.
The only reason to do it is a target to a specific region/country.
Other reasons would be to equalize goods such as Chinese EVs etc,
The prices for regular goods in the US will go up.
Congrats...

You all still ignore the facts period
Revenue, tariff, duty, customs, is paid on ALL merchandise imported into the US.
REF:
Harmonized Tariff Schedule
"2024 HTS Revision 9
"The Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (HTS) sets out the tariff rates and statistical categories for all merchandise imported into the United States. The HTS is based on the international Harmonized System, which is the global system of nomenclature applied to most world trade in goods."
www.hts.usitc.gov/

 

[DaveMatthews]

You all still ignore the facts period
Revenue, tariff, duty, customs, is paid on ALL merchandise imported into the US.
REF:
Harmonized Tariff Schedule
"2024 HTS Revision 9
"The Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (HTS) sets out the tariff rates and statistical categories for all merchandise imported into the United States. The HTS is based on the international Harmonized System, which is the global system of nomenclature applied to most world trade in goods."
www.hts.usitc.gov/

And now it will be higher, and your costs will go up.

 

[mschwett]

You all still ignore the facts period
Revenue, tariff, duty, customs, is paid on ALL merchandise imported into the US.
REF:
Harmonized Tariff Schedule
"2024 HTS Revision 9
"The Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (HTS) sets out the tariff rates and statistical categories for all merchandise imported into the United States. The HTS is based on the international Harmonized System, which is the global system of nomenclature applied to most world trade in goods."
www.hts.usitc.gov/

so you don’t care if you pay 5% tax (tariff) or 50%? good to know, will be sure to let the IRS in on this fact. the fact that a framework for taxing imports exists is a meaningless data point. of course it does. what is meaningful is HOW MUCH the taxes are, and what’s done with the proceeds.

there is a reason no reputable economist is in favor of simultaneously increasing tarriffs and decreasing the labor force. it’s wildly inflationary. we are already seeing the results of it in the markets. enjoy paying more for things and having money which is worth less.

 

[tomjasz]

#1 buy american whenever possible

Buy American was my mantra until the "Made in America" stickers were inside boxes marked with the number of units in a container from China. An incredible scam.

#3 i can see how tariffs would bother people that don't mind the slave labor concept in China.

But we swallow the slave labor Ala Amazon.

 

[Roamers]

But we swallow the slave labor Ala Amazon.

What does that mean?

Buy American was my mantra until the "Made in America" stickers were inside boxes marked with the number of units in a container from China. An incredible scam.

So the company bought their stickers from China?

 

[Roamers]

not quite as bad as the 3rd world shitholes but there is little for the poor person

Never heard the phrase, but makes complete sense. There is a solution, but don't know what it is. Frequent TV commercials talking about sending aid overseas; don't recall seeing any for resolving our own issues.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Frequent TV commercials talking about sending aid overseas; don't recall seeing any for resolving our own issues.

The people who help people here are too busy doing the work to make TV commercials about it. Seriously, I can't swing a cat around here without running into people helping others. Not only are there actual government programs helping folks, but there is a small army of not-for-profits also doing actual good work to help those less fortunate than themselves.

Amongst the projects I know about going on within easy bicycle range of me:

1. They are bringing old motels up to code and converting them into studio apartments for affordable housing.
2. There are multiple food drives.
3. The local clinic will see people unable to pay at no cost (or a nominal cost) on Fridays.
4. There is a whole network that exchanges used clothing for kids (who we all know constantly outgrow clothes).
5. There are offices where you can go where the good people there will give you a cup of tea and hook you up with whatever help you need.

I'm leaving a lot out here, but that gives you an idea. There is no shortage of good people out there doing good work.

Pro tip: any charity advertising on TV is a ripoff and you'll help more people doing the actual research on charities that actually help people. charitynavigator.org is a good starting point for doing the research.

 

[Roamers]

Amongst the projects I know about going on within easy bicycle range of me:

1. They are bringing old motels up to code and converting them into studio apartments for affordable housing.
2. There are multiple food drives.
3. The local clinic will see people unable to pay at no cost (or a nominal cost) on Fridays.
4. There is a whole network that exchanges used clothing for kids (who we all know constantly outgrow clothes).
5. There are offices where you can go where the good people there will give you a cup of tea and hook you up with whatever help you need.

I'm leaving a lot out here, but that gives you an idea. There is no shortage of good people out there doing good work.

I agree with all this in my community also.

I was referring to 3rd world assistance vs. 2.5 world assistance. I agree one needs to careful with scam charities; they are not all scams.

 

[m@Robertson]

Something we talked about as part of me getting my degree in Economics was the fallacy of hating on foreign aid. The layman sees $1B in foreign aid to Durkadurkastan and thinks Uncle Sam airlifted pallets of cash to the country and left it on the runway at the airport.

What really happens is that $1B goes to the country in the form of construction equipment for roads. Or maybe it goes to all of the ingredients for creating a paved road, including supplying the contractors (the Chinese have a global project that does exactly this). Or maybe its a bunch of missiles and machine guns. Whatever. Its products not cash. The secret ingredient is the foreign aid is Made in USA. Why does that matter? US jobs. US factories. US materiel going into the finished products.

Thats why foreign aid is often referred to disparagingly as "exporting your unemployment" ... oftentimes by the bureaucrats who are on the receiving end of said foreign aid. Because thats what it really does. It is an artificial driver outside of the free market that turns unemployed Americans into employed ones. It pumps money into the domestic economy using our excess industrial and commercial capacity, and then bleeds off the byproducts so they don't depress domestic marketplace prices.

Its not all sunshine and roses by any stretch, but foreign aid is a hell of a lot more of a benefit to America than your typical Joe Sikspak realizes.

 

[Roamers]

Its not all sunshine and roses by any stretch, but foreign aid is a hell of a lot more of a benefit to America than your typical Joe Sikspak realizes.

So give away $1B in equipment using our tax $ and the benefit is (being generous) $ .3B in payroll and profits to companies.

I suppose that is good in the eyes of an Economist. Not so much using logic like an Engineer would.

If there is excess mfg capacity, perhaps it's time to reevaluate, repurpose, and reduce (remember the 3 Rs?) Many would prefer reduced taxes than roads in Whogivesadamnistan.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

What percentage of the US Federal Budget do you think foreign aid actually is? I'd bet your guess would be far above the actual number.

 

[Roamers]

What percentage of the US Federal Budget do you think foreign aid actually is? I'd bet your guess would be far above the actual number.

I don't agree with "aid" from tax $ at any level. Now if we get something back like mineral rights or strategic military land that's a different story.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I don't agree with "aid" from tax $ at any level. Now if we get something back like mineral rights or strategic military land that's a different story.

You are moving the goalposts all over the playing field.

Examples of what we "get" for foreign aid have already been given and with very little information you have dismissed them. In practice nearly all foreign aid we give is done for some cold-hearted strategic reason. You might not agree with it but it is there.

Bluntly sometimes we are merely bribing a country to not make any trouble. A good example of this is Egypt (a country which is one of the largest recipients of US aid). Basically we are bribing Egypt not to go to war with Israel. Given that in the forty years before we cut that deal Egypt and Israel went to war four times and since then (about forty years) there have been zero such wars the bribes appear to be effective. You can argue about whether we should care but in three of those four wars we were at least indirectly dragged into it, most notably in the 1973 Arab Oil Embargo that probably cost Americans more money than all of the bribes we have paid since then.

 

[mschwett]

I don't agree with "aid" from tax $ at any level. Now if we get something back like mineral rights or strategic military land that's a different story.

as someone who pays hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes every year, i know full well where most of it goes : “aid” to support less “privileged” people, often in red state america. i’m sure you know that, for example, for every $1 mississippi residents pay in federal taxes they get $2.50 or more back. unlike the pennies we send other countries (in return for significant strategic benefits in some cases), that actually adds up. it is the richest of ironies that those very same people, across the country, felt so butthurt about any of their paltry taxes being spent on something for someone else they might not personally agree with (health care or whatever) that they elected an obviously dishonest convicted felon.

go ahead and cut that spending! go ahead and increase taxes on imports. the people it’s going to really hurt, are unfortunately those who are already hurting the most.

 

[Roamers]

as someone who pays hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes every year, i know full well where most of it goes : “aid” to support less “privileged” people, often in red state america. i’m sure you know that, for example, for every $1 mississippi residents pay in federal taxes they get $2.50 or more back. unlike the pennies we send other countries (in return for significant strategic benefits in some cases), that actually adds up. it is the richest of ironies that those very same people, across the country, felt so butthurt about any of their paltry taxes being spent on something for someone else they might not personally agree with (health care or whatever) that they elected an obviously dishonest convicted felon.

go ahead and cut that spending! go ahead and increase taxes on imports. the people it’s going to really hurt, are unfortunately those who are already hurting the most.

Don't recall if I've had the opportunity to write this yet. Sorry if it's already been said. The Federal Government should not be involved in (pay into) things that favor or disfavor any person, group, community, state, etc. I'm all for helping people, but at the state/community level. There are only a handful of things the Federal Government should be spending our $ on. Reference: The Constitution.

For fear of breaking forum rules (this has turned away from being an Ebike topic (sorry if I did it)), I'm out. If this conversation is allowable, I'm in.

 

[PedalUma]

I just thought of an interesting topic to add to the thread as someone mentioned exporting domestically produced guns as aid. Baseball in the US has a kind of government subsidy in the form of a monopoly. That subsidy is very valuable. Protecting US arms manufacturers from all lawsuits when they are producing a domestically costly product to society is also a subsidy. They do not pay for funerals, ER visits, surgeries, rehab, and other expenses caused by their deadly products. We all do. It is like when we subsidized tobacco production. Sidebar: Amendments are amendable, such as the 19th. When we send a fighter plane to Ukraine as aid, our contractors and workers get paid, and achieve economies of scale, and the Ukrainians then do all the dirty work of fighting Putin for us.

 

[gorse]

Tariff inflation is inevitable. China has four times as many toolmakers as the US, so home manufacturing will be a long way off...

 

[m@Robertson]

I suppose that is good in the eyes of an Economist. Not so much using logic like an Engineer would.

Or maybe its the difference between being a talker and a do'er. I suspect other people can use logic too, and then do something with the result when the time comes. Its easy to just bitch on the internet.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

The Federal Government should not be involved in (pay into) things that favor or disfavor any person, group, community, state, etc.

So basically we should undo the last 150+ years? Although arguably one way or the other governments do exactly that all the time.

 

[Roamers]

So basically we should undo the last 150+ years? Although arguably one way or the other governments do exactly that all the time.

Yes. There is a very small list of things the Federal Government should be doing. As you can see, by getting involved where they shouldn't, the Federal Government has bloated. "Sticking to the knitting" would be a great idea.

I haven't had a chance to do it yet, but look at the timeline for "Government Departments" starting. Started out following the Constitution; slowly bloated to where it shouldn't have. The list will be my gift to the DOGE.