Bruce Arnold
Well-Known Member
That's the theory of those who favor tariffs. Historically it hasn't turned out that well.
Tariffs and eBike Prices
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Nova Haibike
Well-Known Member
It was not all that long ago when every Cannondale was made in the USA. Trek made quite a few of their bikes here as well; only the lower end bikes always came from overseas. The USA-made bikes were competitively priced too, so it cannot be said that it cannot be done.
Bruce Arnold
Well-Known Member
Transnational corporations, by their very nature, could care less about this stuff. They will move their operations wherever they need to in order to maximize profits. So the tariffs won't affect them one way or another. The local communities where they were doing business will suffer and another community that gets their business will have more jobs for a while. Environmental considerations -- like in Bhopal, for instance -- may make those jobs much less worthwhile than their surface value, and yet the people in those local communities may still find it preferable to poverty. Let's keep a sense of perspective about this. There are real consequences, for better or worse. I am confident that these tariffs will please many of the people who keep our current set of politicians in office, and that the rest of us, here and abroad, can howl at the moon for all they care.
An update one month on: According to this Bicycle Retailer piece from last week, Trek and Pedego executives criticized the tariff in part because it won't have any positive impact on their e-bike businesses. As has been mentioned in this thread: they already produce or source so much from outside of the country that moving business to the U.S. would be expensive (beyond higher wages and the like).
Pedego's CEO said, "Pedego’s business is reliant on imports because no companies manufacture electric bicycles in the United States." Clearly not true; I assume he means that no major companies/companies at their price point since there are plenty of smaller manufacturers here.
Pedego's CEO said, "Pedego’s business is reliant on imports because no companies manufacture electric bicycles in the United States." Clearly not true; I assume he means that no major companies/companies at their price point since there are plenty of smaller manufacturers here.
I am very curious to know how much the price difference will be.
If Pedego went "Made in China" to "Made in USA" what would be the price increase?
The Pedego Intercepter is the most popular lineup.
The current price is $2,995-$3,690. How much would it cost if it was made in the USA?
Like $10,000?
Hairball
Member
I read a story about a bread company who's owner wanted to retire... The 15 employees all invested in the bread company and ran it democratically... There was no no single owner or CEO calling the shots while taking home the lions share.
They take votes, and the majority wins on anything the company wants to do.
I liked the idea so much, I started my business this way... I don't make a gargantuan amount of money, but I sure don't make a measly $15 per hour either.
If Americans were smart they would form employee owned co-ops... each individual contributes an equal amount of investment in accordance to their skills and tools... Yes it takes investment and there is no "One size fits all" ... Each company will need to figure out what will work best for their needs... For instance... with our company we don't allow for 1 person to have an upper hand.
We do a rotation on maintenance, book keeping, and working every phase of production... It keeps every one in the loop on every aspect of the business and it reduces the bordom of manufacturing 1 part day after day... Plus it eliminates the probability of someone of a certain skill they think is more important than all the rest from "Taking the ball and going home" If they don't get more... you know how humans can be.
They take votes, and the majority wins on anything the company wants to do.
I liked the idea so much, I started my business this way... I don't make a gargantuan amount of money, but I sure don't make a measly $15 per hour either.
If Americans were smart they would form employee owned co-ops... each individual contributes an equal amount of investment in accordance to their skills and tools... Yes it takes investment and there is no "One size fits all" ... Each company will need to figure out what will work best for their needs... For instance... with our company we don't allow for 1 person to have an upper hand.
We do a rotation on maintenance, book keeping, and working every phase of production... It keeps every one in the loop on every aspect of the business and it reduces the bordom of manufacturing 1 part day after day... Plus it eliminates the probability of someone of a certain skill they think is more important than all the rest from "Taking the ball and going home" If they don't get more... you know how humans can be.
Mr. Coffee
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- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
I am very curious to know how much the price difference will be.
If Pedego went "Made in China" to "Made in USA" what would be the price increase?
The Pedego Intercepter is the most popular lineup.
The current price is $2,995-$3,690. How much would it cost if it was made in the USA?
Like $10,000?
No, nowhere near $10000. Very-high end American-made bikes with all sorts of bells and whistles don't get anywhere near that price.
My own guess is that the price premium between comparable Chinese bikes and a US-made bikes is probably modest, on the order of $500-$750. The catch is the word "comparable". Amazon and Wal-Mart are full of very inexpensive bikes, mostly Chinese-made. However, the quality of those bike is very low (arguably much lower than the junky ten-speed I bought when I was in grade 5 from Fred Meyer).
Really? $500?
So are we talking about $3,000 Pedego bike becoming $3,500?
Me personally, I am a very budget conscious buyer, I'm a student and don't have much money.
But from what I remember from "why do we ebike?" thread, the vast majority of members here could care less about money. I was under the impression that $500 is a pocket change for many people here.
Would that hurt Pedego sales going Made in USA? Well, maybe. But the economic impact in the US might be better if that's the case. (creating more jobs, etc)
D
Deleted member 4210
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My understanding is that we could know in a few weeks, whether or not tariffs will be applied to e-bikes from China. Until then it doesn't make much sense to even worry about it. However, if you are a nervous potential ebike purchaser, and worried about higher prices in a couple months, then now might be the time to pull the trigger. 
> But if the tariffs do happen, I highly suspect the ebike industry won't stand still. They'll quickly diverify sourcing more, and could go to places like Taiwan where some larger names already have a presence, or come up with new work-arounds to keep prices competitive. No OEM is going to want to lose market share. Though there are 300 brands, so there could be a nice little near term shake out. One possible scenario :If 25% tariff's kicked in, the market could see a not so subtle shift back to offering more ebikes with hub drives on them, since the hub drives are far less expensive to produce than mid drives. Prices on mid drives and the very large numbers of models of them priced above $3000 and going WAY up from there, have clearly gotten way beyond the affordability threshold of many potential US ebike consumers, many of whom may be standing on the side lines due to the high cost. Wouldn't that be ironic, if the tariff's kicking in, actually caused the industry to re-shift its focus toward building many more models with much more affordable price points, acting as a catalyst to a massive jump in US ebike adoption !?!
> But if the tariffs do happen, I highly suspect the ebike industry won't stand still. They'll quickly diverify sourcing more, and could go to places like Taiwan where some larger names already have a presence, or come up with new work-arounds to keep prices competitive. No OEM is going to want to lose market share. Though there are 300 brands, so there could be a nice little near term shake out. One possible scenario :If 25% tariff's kicked in, the market could see a not so subtle shift back to offering more ebikes with hub drives on them, since the hub drives are far less expensive to produce than mid drives. Prices on mid drives and the very large numbers of models of them priced above $3000 and going WAY up from there, have clearly gotten way beyond the affordability threshold of many potential US ebike consumers, many of whom may be standing on the side lines due to the high cost. Wouldn't that be ironic, if the tariff's kicking in, actually caused the industry to re-shift its focus toward building many more models with much more affordable price points, acting as a catalyst to a massive jump in US ebike adoption !?! My understanding is that we could know in a few weeks, whether or not tariffs will be applied to e-bikes from China. Until then it doesn't make much sense to even worry about it. However, if you are a nervous potential ebike purchaser, and worried about higher prices in a couple months, then now might be the time to pull the trigger.
Well if that's the point, the tariff will do nothing to bring the job back to the US.
They will just go somewhere else, like many people here have been saying.
Ravi Kempaiah
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- Canada
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- Halifax
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/ind...-ustr-will-take-effect-august-23#.W2rm1YrhU0M
The tariffs are going into effect starting August 25th.
The tariffs are going into effect starting August 25th.
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
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- USA
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I'd guess that you could have a custom-build non-electric cruiser bike comparable to an Interceptor for around $2000. It is reasonable to guess that adding a motor, controller, and battery would run about $1500. So yes, I would imagine that an American company could build a bike comparable to an Interceptor for $3500. And that is basically assuming a one-off, bespoke bicycle. If you scaled up the manufacturing you could actually turn a pretty good profit at that price.
Chic Lasser
Member
Just looked at Sondors website and there prices on bikes delivered in November just went up. Some like the fold mini went from previous pre sale price of $649 to reg Price of $749 are all $849. Additionally other presale stuff went up to, so tariffs I would think could be the cause.
Alaskan
Well-Known Member
Word games for the gullible. A tariff is a tax...plain & simple. A tax on an item paid by the buyer...basically a federal sales tax. It is uncertain at best whether any jobs will be repatriated by tariffs. It is certain jobs will be lost due to retaliatory tariffs. Dumb and dumber.
Tariffs aside, another issue I believe we will be facing is the inability to get parts and/or materials. I am experiencing this issue now with LG products. I decided to break down and buy all new appliances in anticipation of the price hikes. With the trade wars going on, companies like LG, Samsung etc are experiencing road blocks in exports to the US. It took 6 weeks to get my washer and dryer and I am now on my 2 month of waiting on a refrigerator. Fortunately, my new Ebike came from Canada and arrived within a week. I was at walmart this morning to pick up a new bike pump and noticed how empty the store was. When I asked the check out clerk, she said that there have been manufacturing and import delays and some of their distributors have withdrawn from exporting to the US.
But ebikes coming from Canada are still made in China though?
Are they charging tariffs on products that are shipped from China?
Acey
Member
Tariffs go into effect on August 23. Nearly all other bicycle parts are on the next list that was just increased to 25%.
This is what I was advised: If an e-bike is made in Taiwan, but has over 50% Chinese parts (in value or quantity), China is the country of origin and a 25% tariff. If a Canadian company ships a Chinese made e-bike to the US, the country of origin for the bike is China and there is a 25% tariff.
With all parts going up, there is little advantage to importing parts AND paying a tariff on them AND paying higher wages - double whammy.
Cable housing, tires, inner-tubes, shifters, brakes, almost everything but derailleurs will go up 25% in cost with the next round. The LBS is going to be on the skids again. I really feel for them.
We're exploring options and applying for an exemption. We broke our spreadsheet trying to track all the possibilities and costs associated with assembly, etc. Be aware that many manufacturers will save on tariffs by reducing the value of the products. That means they use cheaper parts to keep the impact of tariffs down.
Our e-bikes are expensive, so we're getting hit harder - just bumped our prices by $300-$350. Thanks to tariffs, every model is now $1100-$1350 landed - 40-50% more than most of our competitors in our "previous" price range. Yes, they're overbuilt for all but the most discerning consumers. It's why we preach that if you choose based on cost, it should be build cost, not selling cost.
Our first shipment arrives on Aug. 11, but because cost of replacing inventory just went up, so did our prices. In a way, the tariffs will help us early on. Everyone tells us our prices were too low for what we were selling. Maybe at tariff prices people will take us seriously - until retailers raise their prices by $750+ and ours look cheap again...
This is what I was advised: If an e-bike is made in Taiwan, but has over 50% Chinese parts (in value or quantity), China is the country of origin and a 25% tariff. If a Canadian company ships a Chinese made e-bike to the US, the country of origin for the bike is China and there is a 25% tariff.
With all parts going up, there is little advantage to importing parts AND paying a tariff on them AND paying higher wages - double whammy.
Cable housing, tires, inner-tubes, shifters, brakes, almost everything but derailleurs will go up 25% in cost with the next round. The LBS is going to be on the skids again. I really feel for them.
We're exploring options and applying for an exemption. We broke our spreadsheet trying to track all the possibilities and costs associated with assembly, etc. Be aware that many manufacturers will save on tariffs by reducing the value of the products. That means they use cheaper parts to keep the impact of tariffs down.
Our e-bikes are expensive, so we're getting hit harder - just bumped our prices by $300-$350. Thanks to tariffs, every model is now $1100-$1350 landed - 40-50% more than most of our competitors in our "previous" price range. Yes, they're overbuilt for all but the most discerning consumers. It's why we preach that if you choose based on cost, it should be build cost, not selling cost.
Our first shipment arrives on Aug. 11, but because cost of replacing inventory just went up, so did our prices. In a way, the tariffs will help us early on. Everyone tells us our prices were too low for what we were selling. Maybe at tariff prices people will take us seriously - until retailers raise their prices by $750+ and ours look cheap again...
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