Still searching for the perfect ultra-light ebike kit for road bikes — here’s the idea in my head

[Gionnirocket]

¡BAZZINGA!

 

[EMGX]

Just for the sake of discussion, not really for the OP for whom this all seems to be a thought exercise - besides the Keyde torque sensing 142mm thru axle compatible rear hub motor kit (which is 2 pounds heavier than the Mahle hub and offers 35nm torque vs Mahle 23nm) there is the ultra light Qiroll 240W (continuous) friction drive. Qiroll Mute plus motor weighs 520g and the smaller battery 700g for a total of ~2.7 pounds so a 17# bike would end up ~20#. I have a Qiroll on a bike that equiped is ~30# and despite that I'm much heavier than the OP the Qiroll adds noticeable assist even on hills. I've ridden mine on long 5-8% grades as well as 10+%. Qiroll have been installed on carbon frame bikes including someone who posted on this forum. There are limitations, the worst of which is the stock friction layer (there are alternatives that work well) and tire tread types (works best on road tires) but it does work and would likely work better on a lighter bike with a lighter rider than my experience.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

One thing I think you always forget is that large parts of Europe are very hilly, unlike Warsaw and environs. Yes the 25km cut off is at an awkward speed on flat roads riding on your own, but in hills or a headwind the motor assistance is fine because you are mostly riding below that. And in a group you are sheltered and although the group (on the flat) is probably above 25km you don't have to do much work sheltered from the wind as roadies are, tyre to tyre out of the wind. A large number of older roadies go for the mahle equipped hub bikes because the low weight is paramount when riding in a group- the assist gives them enough extra grunt to stay in touch with the other riders on inclines and light enough that over the cut off they can still keep up while sheltered - without an unassisted weight penalty of a heavier mid drive set up. That is one of the main markets in Europe for these bikes, strong, long term, roadies who through age or illness have lost a bit of edge but are still very fit. Just need a boost now and then to keep up with the Sunday group when the going gets tough. From what I also see on forums the Mahle motors seem much more reliable nowadays and still selling well.

Ras, these are good points. I overlooked them because I only climbed in high mountains on a Vado 6.0, a heavy but a 520 W 45 km/h e-bike

I can still remember our uphill Turbo ride with Jacek in Sudety Mountains. We were "smoking" any roadie uphill but any of them "smoked" us downhill. We started talking with such riders and had a good laugh together! Like, "I cannot help I gain advantage downhill if you two guys catch up with me uphill!" Eventually we all three reached our finish line at the same time, the roadie and two e-bikers!

 

[PedalUma]

Made in the Basque Country actually. Pretty famously from there. Owned by a a worker cooperative originally established in 1840 by the Orbea brothers and currently selling approx 200,000 bikes a year. The Gain is hugely popular currently with 13 carbon & alloy versions on sale and winner of many awards including the US Outside magazine Gear Of The Year award in the road bike category. Pretty clear from your entries here you have zero clue about lightweight road bikes.

Oh, I know about them. I have ridden them and sold them; it is just not my cup of tea. Just like I am not into BMX. Those also are only for sport and it is funny to me to see an adult riding one. Not a great way to get around. Now Dutch bikes, that is more like it. They are practical, comfortable, solid, and useful. And you dress for your destination, not in a costume. And with real shoes so you do not click and walk like a slippery pregnant penguin on ice. A roadie will do 100k then drive three blocks to get a six-pack after. In parallel people will load BMX bikes in trucks to take to the park or track, not ride to there. Bike culture on the other hand makes cars useless, unnecessary, old fashioned, and obsolete. BMX are also lightweight and totally useless.

 

[Base]

a few moments a go I've seen the Ananda R820, looks promising. 40Nm at 2 kg, 142 roadboost TA.

 

[kevinmccune]

a few moments a go I've seen the Ananda R820, looks promising. 40Nm at 2 kg, 142 roadboost TA.

40nm makes a big difference,most folks here ride for fun and exercise,if one just wants an escooter go for the long legs!

 

[kevinmccune]

Oh, I know about them. I have ridden them and sold them; it is just not my cup of tea. Just like I am not into BMX. Those also are only for sport and it is funny to me to see an adult riding one. Not a great way to get around. Now Dutch bikes, that is more like it. They are practical, comfortable, solid, and useful. And you dress for your destination, not in a costume. And with real shoes so you do not click and walk like a slippery pregnant penguin on ice. A roadie will do 100k then drive three blocks to get a six-pack after. In parallel people will load BMX bikes in trucks to take to the park or track, not ride to there. Bike culture on the other hand makes cars useless, unnecessary, old fashioned, and obsolete. BMX are also lightweight and totally useless.

View attachment 193482

always wondered why people ride a car to the gym,out of frustration I finally traded my free weights for a step thru Bike( girls bike) got much more benefit out of the bike than the weights my 10 hour day job was apparently strenuous enough to keep me in fair condition.

 

[kevinmccune]

Ras, these are good points. I overlooked them because I only climbed in high mountains on a Vado 6.0, a heavy but a 520 W 45 km/h e-bike

I can still remember our uphill Turbo ride with Jacek in Sudety Mountains. We were "smoking" any roadie uphill but any of them "smoked" us downhill. We started talking with such riders and had a good laugh together! Like, "I cannot help I gain advantage downhill if you two guys catch up with me uphill!" Eventually we all three reached our finish line at the same time, the roadie and two e-bikers!

my question is"when did you take time to "smoke" a Vado"?( apparently there are enough different flavors of "Vado" to suit ones taste these days.

 

[Katrina92]

There is also the KMC (the chain people) lightweight hub motor released last year:

KMC Kynamic hub motor review​

Pros
Compact
Lightweight
Nearly silent
Smooth response
Repairable

Cons
Small display

Features
Replaceable freehub
Removable from the hub shell for maintenance

Specifications
Kynamic 250W
36V
45Nm
142mm power hub with replaceable freehub
32-spokes

https://www.cyclingelectric.com/reviews/kmc-kynamic-hub-review

I might’ve missed it, but did they mention the weight anywhere?

 

[Katrina92]

If you look at the links I attached you'd see that this isn't the same model of Hyena motor on Treks but a new motor designed for road bikes released last month and due out later this year.

Set for a first showing at Taiwan’s leading trade show later this month and to appear on e-bikes from the middle of this year, the new H250 series is a second-generation system that somehow manages to shave 400 grams from the prior model’s weight, all the while reducing its overall size by 5%. This should further reduce the gap between e-bike weights and that of standard road bikes, a void that has only been reducing. Better still, Hyena’s presence will put more competition into a space where prices can be perceived as high.

Weight reduction is obviously a key design want from road and gravel bike makers, but so too is available power and with the new rear-hub motor Hyena ups its peak power availability to 425W, which will add excitement to road sprints and sharp inclines.

As an aside to this, Hyena has also introduced a new Thru-axle solution for the electric road segment, with the MRC-F250 motor landing again at the low weight of just 2kg (Mahle’s X20 is currently the lightest at 1.37kg, though this has only 23Nm of torque). This rear hub motor can be utilised on wheels of 26″, 27.5″ and 28″, assuming the frame allows a 142mm axle installation.

https://www.cyclingelectric.com/news/hyena-hub-motor

Totally agree – weight savings are a top priority for road and gravel builds. I’m curious about Hyena’s torque though – judging from the motor size, I’d guess it’s pushing 30Nm or more?

 

[Katrina92]

The Luna is 39 lbs. The OP rides a non-electric Scott Addict which probably weighs around 17 lbs. (unless she spent $16,000 for the 13 lbs. version). She thinks the Scott Addict eRide is too heavy at 24 lbs. The Luna is not in the same ballpark.

Luna does look pretty stealth — I wouldn’t have guessed it was an e-bike just by glancing. The internal gear hub actually looks really close to what I’ve been looking for.

 

[Katrina92]

Yes, a motor can offset the adverse effects of weight on acceleration and climbing. But motor or not, weight still counts WRT responsiveness and handling. And those qualities could well be important to someone with the OP's current lightweight road bike.

That’s why I’ve been more drawn to minimal, lightweight assist systems — just enough support without compromising the ride feel.

 

[Katrina92]

a few moments a go I've seen the Ananda R820, looks promising. 40Nm at 2 kg, 142 roadboost TA.

I took a quick look — seems like Ananda actually has more than one motor that fits road bikes. But I couldn’t really find much info on their battery options.

 

[Mike_V]

Luna does look pretty stealth — I wouldn’t have guessed it was an e-bike just by glancing. The internal gear hub actually looks really close to what I’ve been looking for.

Ballpark of $1,750 ? You made of money Cyclista ?
Or just MONTHLY Payments ?

Katrina ; You could be riding instead of Writing
An Electric Bike 'pulls it own weight' unless you ride without assist. Why bother because:
You have the Scott Bicycle for more exercise.
Ballpark? or Spectator ?

 

[kevinmccune]

just go ahead and pull the trigger for petes sake or go to bike shop and rent one.