Steps 6100 - significant motor resistance pedaling when off

[dborosev]

Bought a new bike with the steps 6100 system. I notice that when trying to ride the bike with the system off, there is noticable resistance from the motor when trying to pedal. Glides fine once in motion, but its almost like the motor is fighting me when pedaling. Even when the whole system is off.
Is this normal?

 

[McCorby]

No. These motors have very little pedaling resistance. The perceived resistance is usually due to an eBikes extra weight. To confirm, remove the chain from the front chainring and spin the cranks. I’m guessing you’ll experience very little resistance. If you notice significant resistance, something is likely wrong.

 

[dborosev]

Well this motor definitely has resistance. You can feel it fighting a bit like a fish on a line. It otherwise seems to work just fine when the motor is engaged.

 

[McCorby]

I’d have it checked out then. It definitely should not be “fighting” you.

 

[dborosev]

Do you know this for a fact with the 6100, or are you just speculating? I know there are many motors out there that have this sort of resistance to a degree.
It otherwise feels normal, just not ridable in "off".

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm with McCorby on that. dborosev: e-bikes get so pampered with motor assistance they believe that creates some resistance. It is not. To be fair, make the experiment McCorby has suggested. Note: I did such a test on my Brose and Yamaha motor e-bikes. No resistance with the chain off.

 

[dborosev]

I'll do more testing, but I can say right now that there is no resistance when I just hold up the bike and pedal with my hands. It seems like its only when sitting on it riding it. Like the motor is "resisting" when there is some torque on it. Even when completely off. I know this sounds like its "just a heavy bike" etc, but its not that.
Almost like turning the motor is feeding back, and re-charging the battery.
I'll see if I can narrow it down further.

 

[antboy]

When you say "off" do you mean turned off, or just on zero assist level?

I've got an OHM Cruise with the E6100. I haven't tried riding it turned off, but sometimes on flatter areas I'll turn the assist off. When I do that, it feels like there's just a little more resistance than I would expect for its 48 lbs weight, but certainly nothing I would consider fighting against me.

With assist off, it pedals better than a Bixi Bike (typical bike rental here in Toronto).

Another quick question (though it may not be a factor in your case): if you are pedaling with the bike ON but assist OFF, are you powering the bike on/off while riding? I don't know if it's true of other motors, but it's my understanding that the Shimano E6100 should only be powered on/off while stationary and with no weight on the pedals, as it uses the boot-up time to recalibrate the sensors.

 

[McCorby]

Do you know this for a fact with the 6100, or are you just speculating? I know there are many motors out there that have this sort of resistance to a degree.
It otherwise feels normal, just not ridable in "off".

I test rode a BMC Alpenchallenge Amp with the E-6100. There was no significant pedaling resistance from the motor when the assist was turned off. Was it harder to pedal than a 20 lb. analog bike? Yes, it weighs almost twice as much.

 

[McCorby]

I'll do more testing, but I can say right now that there is no resistance when I just hold up the bike and pedal with my hands. It seems like its only when sitting on it riding it. Like the motor is "resisting" when there is some torque on it. Even when completely off. I know this sounds like its "just a heavy bike" etc, but its not that.
Almost like turning the motor is feeding back, and re-charging the battery.
I'll see if I can narrow it down further.

Motor resistance will not change if you’re pedaling with wheel off the ground or while riding. The motor will not electrically “feed back” when pedaling and does not have regen capability. Again, I recommend you have your lbs check it over.

 

[McCorby]

Another quick question (though it may not be a factor in your case): if you are pedaling with the bike ON but assist OFF, are you powering the bike on/off while riding? I don't know if it's true of other motors, but it's my understanding that the Shimano E6100 should only be powered on/off while stationary and with no weight on the pedals, as it uses the boot-up time to recalibrate the sensors.

I don’t think this is an issue anymore. I believe Shimano addressed this with a recent software update.

Try it. If it hasn’t been “fixed” you’ll get an error code. Doing so won’t hurt it either way. You can clear the error by cycling the power.

You‘re correct that this is not a factor in the op’s issue.

 

[antboy]

I don’t think this is an issue anymore. I believe Shimano addressed this with a recent software update.

Try it. If it hasn’t been “fixed” you’ll get an error code. Doing so won’t hurt it either way. You can clear the error by cycling the power.

Thanks, good to know. That being said, I usually boot up the bike and it's ready by the time I get my helmet on.

 

[McCorby]

Thanks, good to know. That being said, I usually boot up the bike and it's ready by the time I get my helmet on.

I do the same! There’s no benefit riding with the motor/battery powered off versus having the assist level set to off. The display is not going to significantly drain the battery. The benefit of having the battery/motor powered on with the assist set to off is that you get speed on your display and your odometer is counting your miles!

 

[McCorby]

dborosev, what bike do you have?

 

[dborosev]

Its a Norco Scene VLT. And it happens off, no assist, or with the battery removed.
Its not a huge deal, but its definitely noticeable. It is possible to pedal, but you can feel this resistance, just enough to make it difficult. And it doesn't seem like a smooth resistance either. More like slighly jerky feeling, but mild.
I'll likely never ride it without assist anyways so its not a massive deal breaker. But it makes me wonder if its impeding the range I could get when its on.
Does anyone know if I can contact Shimano directly to ask about it?

 

[McCorby]

They have contact info on their website.

They are likely going to tell you the same thing. They’ll tell you that there should not be the significant motor resistance you describe and that you should take it to an authorized bike shop to have it checked out. There’s really not much else they can do via phone or messaging.

Edit: Nice bike btw!

 

[antboy]

Just curious if you've explored the issue any further.

I did a short ride yesterday, and decided to go zero assist for a few kilometers, as I'm planning an overnight ride later in the spring, and want to make sure I know what I'm getting into.

I didn't have any problems other than the perception before I got up to speed. I find that I'm sometimes one gear lower than I would be on a lighter bike, but everything feels normal other than the added mass.

Other than that, how are you enjoying the Scene VLT? It was on my short list last year before getting the OHM.

 

[fooferdoggie]

a simple way to test this is take the chain off and turn the cranks I have been told al the resistance in a bosch motor the one with the small chainring. but without a chain it is a tiny amount.

 

[antboy]

a simple way to test this is take the chain off and turn the cranks I have been told al the resistance in a bosch motor the one with the small chainring. but without a chain it is a tiny amount.

That's a GREAT way to test it.

For my E6100, even with the chain on (I just did a cleaning), there's just about zero resistance. MAYBE for a quarter crank it feels a LITTLE tighter, MAYBE.

This would be a good way for the OP to eliminate the weight/perception factor.

 

[dborosev]

Op here. Just to clarify, I don't find any resistance when just turning the peddles. The resistance is very strange in that its when putting pressure on the peddles. So trying to peddle when its off for instance. If it were on a bike stand and I turned them, there would be no resistance.