Nice Feature on a Hub Drive

[AvalancheRun]

Stromer uses the motor to lock the bike and make it unrideable as a theft deterrent. I found regen to be very useful for saving your brakes from excessive wear. They’re also the quietest motors by a mile (but still some high frequency whine if you have good hearing to detect 14 kHz).

All in all hubs have some interesting advantages.

 

[Chargeride]

I suggest in hilly areas we use a clockwork spring device, 100% energy regen

 

[AvalancheRun]

I suggest in hilly areas we use a clockwork spring device, 100% energy regen

Wish I knew about that before spending $80 on new brake pads after only 1000 miles!

FWIW, the (2021-2022?) Stromer ST3 that I tried seemed to continue powering forward for about 1.5-2 seconds after pedaling. Kinda weird.

 

[Bella-Motor-HP]

I bought a flipsky v4 remote. It has double action thumbwheel for throttle and brake. It also displays more info than a normal display.

I'm going to take the guts out of the remote and machine my own cases / thumbwheel to put them in to suit them for a bike.

But I'm running a vesc not a controller.

This is what I am using for a throttle/regen device.

Amazon.com

 

[PCeBiker]

Like for instance my UPP 48V 24AH battery has LG INR2170-M50L Cells in it.
So looking at LG Specs.

Apparently UPP battery packs are responsible for a bunch of fires.
They claim to now test all batteries before shipping, but who knows?
(I think they're just testing capacity, but no stress testing.)

I'd suggest opening up your pack and check for shitty welds.

One guy was charging his battery at only 1 amp and it burned down his apartment.

 

[Bella-Motor-HP]

Wow I didn't know that. Luckily I haven't been using it yet. I know the battery I bought has high quality LG 21700 cells. I paid 500 almost for 48v 24ah. Anyway I have the top secret specs from LG testing the exact cells I'm supposed to have. They can take a he'll of a lot.

At any rate the bat stock can only do 40 amps. If the cells are lg21700 they can take 80 amps and easily run 60 amps continuously. Provided you keep the battery temp under 80 F.

Due to that I'm taking apart the battery and wiring in my own BMS. I will get a good look at it then. I'm changing the leads to 8 GA silicon and V6 Qs8 connectors rated for 600 Amp burst for 5 seconds.

It is amazing the difference connectors make on the power output.

So if this battery don't have lg21700 I'm gonna flip and they will be giving back my money.

I did run it about 2 charge cycles. I have better acceleration and higher top speed with this battery. I honestly believe it's legit.

I know upp sells cheaper Chinese stuff as well. My guess is those are the batteries with issues.

Thanks alot for the heads up. It is coming apart soon and I'll video it and we will see what we find.




Alright so it didn't take me long to check into that. Everything looks pretty good. Only thing I don't like is it only uses 1 plate of nickel that is .34mm thick. It's apart and I am very pleased with what I found inside. You get what you pay for. I paid close to $500 for the battery. It is expensive because the cells in it cost a lot more. Buy a Chinese battery and you get what you get.


Anyway Im gonna post up photos of my teardown but it don't belong here so look for my new post about the battery in the DIY Ebike section

 

[Slaphappygamer]

Wow. 8AWG is pretty thick. That’s some high current. I was reading somewhere about insulation. There can be many varieties of silicone. I’m sure you already know, don’t get cheap wire. That wire may have insulation not rated for the heat the gauge wire can handle.

 

[PCeBiker]

I know the battery I bought has high quality LG 21700 cells. I paid 500 almost for 48v 24ah.

It's not the cells themselves that are the issue, it's the quality of the assembly that is/was a problem.

So if this battery don't have lg21700 I'm gonna flip and they will be giving back my money.

Apparently there are counterfeit cells out there and you can't tell by looking at them.
I have no idea whether or not UPP uses them or if they'd even know if they do?

I did run it about 2 charge cycles. I have better acceleration and higher top speed with this battery. I honestly believe it's legit.

The batteries are apparently tested for capacity but not any serious vibration testing.

I know upp sells cheaper Chinese stuff as well. My guess is those are the batteries with issues.

That's possible?
If UPP is just a supplier, then they could source from who knows where?

This is my speculation about how bad welds are causing fires,..

The tack welds that weld the nickel plated steel ribbon to the cells break free or the ribbon itself breaks.

Or they didn't use the little circular stick on insulators on the positive side of the cell.
The bare metal ribbon can rub through to the bare metal negative ground cell casing that's 2mm away from positive at the top of the cell.

So if a single cell "disconnects" from its associated cell group, it is either overcharged or undercharged.

Then you go over a bump, or the battery gets warm or whatever, and that disconnected cell reconnects causing a HUGE Current dump into or out of its cell group causing sparks.

It may continue to arc and spark and disconnect reconnect until you got a

Or the shitty weld has enough resistance across it that it gets hot enough to start on fire.

Thanks alot for the heads up. It is coming apart soon and I'll video it and we will see what we find.

This thread talks about a cheap battery simply becoming useless due to poor quality cells.

Keep in mind that if you've got a crap battery, it's WAY More likely that you're battery will quickly become useless than start on fire.

Is This Battery Pack for Real ($106) ??

Is This Battery for Real?? shorturl.at/suIOQ I ordered this battery the end of March. It arrived last week, around May 13th. The package simply showed up with a DHL label on it. There was never any tracking. The cost was about what the ad states, plus sales tax. I guess Ali is enough of a...

forums.electricbikereview.com

If you have a Watt hour meter, you can keep track of the full capacity of your battery over the course of a bunch of charge cycles to keep track of any loss of capacity.

 

[PCeBiker]

Due to that I'm taking apart the battery and wiring in my own BMS. I will get a good look at it then.

I think it would be smart to install a bunch of temperature sensors, thermistors, or thermal fuses inside the battery pack

 

[Bella-Motor-HP]

I bought highest grade cable I could find. It was 65 for 20 feet. It's rated to 200C and 600V and the silicon is nice and thick. I'm gonna use it for phase leads directly to the motor too. I think I'm going to put braided stainless steel hose over the wire for even more protection.

Ok I'm working on

the battery thread. But anyway my battery design is solid. I think they are sourcing batteries.

My battery has trays on both sides. They locate and isolate the cells. The whole pack was siliconed into the case. There are several pcs of foam but most aren't glued. The welds look not bad but not great either. The good thing is they didn't damage anything by welding to hot. It is looking like some welds aren't through.thats maybe not good. And there is only one layer of nickel. .34mm thick.

I think before I try to pull crazy amps out of this I'm gonna add 1 layer of nickel and weld it with 8 spots. They have 4 spots now and it's machine welded for sure.

The cells are real. You can tell by the part numbers. I didn't get the cells advertised. I actually lucked out and got the Higher Grade LG21700 M48F. It has a higher C rating. I think it's cause there cramming 24AH in a 20AH configuration by using higher capacity batteries. I would agree it needs a good going over but if treated appropriately them cells rock.

Here's some photos of the battery.

 

[Bella-Motor-HP]

Hummmmm....

One thing to add. You notice that that ground tab is bent. When my rack broke my battery fell and it must have moved inside the case. I think when im done i will machine my own aluminum case for it and pot the whole pack in the case. That would be really safe but a pita if you ever gotta repair it.

 

[PCeBiker]

I bought a BMS pinout and Balance Cables so that I could monitor the voltage of each cell group and balance my own battery, but I didn't realize that my BMS was buried inside the sealed up aluminum case, so I never did hook it up.

(Childlike Model Making Store. )

My 25ah 48V battery with Samsung 50E cells cost me $840 CAD.
Shipping, taxes and duty included.

 

[PCeBiker]

,.. That would be really safe but a pita if you ever gotta repair it.

If you use transparent potting material, there's a good chance that you'll be able to see where the repair needs to be done.

 

[Slaphappygamer]

Then after the fault is located, the area needs to be exposed. Re-entering potted material that wasn’t meant to be re-entered is very difficult.

 

[PCeBiker]

Then after the fault is located, the area needs to be exposed. Re-entering potted material that wasn’t meant to be re-entered is very difficult.

I depotted my controller, and it wasn't that bad.
It was a little soft like acrylic caulking and it didn't "bond" to anything.
I just had to pick away slowly with reading glasses, a dental pick, and tweezers for the tight spots.
I didn't damage anything.

 

[Bella-Motor-HP]

Well that's good to know. I really think I'm gonna pot my battery. I could use electrical silicon that's clear but there's better stuff with higher thermal transfer rates.

When I bought my battery the LG was the best I could find. I would have bought Samsung.

Really the best is the Molicell 21700. They can run 45A per cell. So you could push more than we could ever use. But the only way I know to get that is to build your own.

 

[Chargeride]

I see ultra high temp fibreglass insulated wires, are they any good?

If you want to see potting gone wrong and dismantling even wronger.

 

[Bella-Motor-HP]

Certainly it is not a project to take on if you lack the proper tools and knowledge of safe practices. And then of course you have to know all the math involved with building a pack. But I believe some of the people on here could do it safely. I know I can.

Far as my 3D models go them are worth gold. #1 you can design a whole system to scale and get all of the fits right. #2 I take 3d models and turn them into computer code that runs high tech brand new CNC Machines and cuts any material you can come up with into any shape you can imagine. Maybe my designs won't be so childish when you see them manufactured. Should be this week. I just gotta find the machine time.

I can't wait to get this all together.
I'm not your average guy.

 

[Chargeride]

We had a phd student visit my friends bike and metalwork shop back in the late 80s, he asked if he could use my friends equipment for his radical carbon frame build, he was turning alloy inserts for bottom bracket etc.
He bought lunch each day in return.

It was the weirdest thing ever, two flat carbon sheets cut out to a frame and held together with shims and bolts.

He was a bit a of knob actually, he asked me how much I got paid
20 grand a year at the time, which was a really good wage.

He just replied, I wouldnt get out of bed for twice that ..this was a guy who hadnt had an actual job yet at 22.

 

[Bella-Motor-HP]

We had a phd student visit my friends bike and metalwork shop back in the late 80s, he asked if he could use my friends equipment for his radical carbon frame build, he was turning alloy inserts for bottom bracket etc.
He bought lunch each day in return.

It was the weirdest thing ever, two flat carbon sheets cut out to a frame and held together with shims and bolts.

He was a bit a of knob actually, he asked me how much I got paid
20 grand a year at the time, which was a really good wage.

He just replied, I wouldnt get out of bed for twice that ..this was a guy who hadnt had an actual job yet at 22.

Right....

I have been in my trades for 30 years now. God i wish i was in my 20s.
I make a really good wage. Especially I live in a rural area with a very low cost of living.
But I have 7 kids and a wife so it don't go far.

The best part of my job is the equipment i have access to. It opens up possibilities for me.
I can at least make my own prototypes. Then I can test and finalize the design. If i can develop some good products I can offer the work to my company. Most likley they will make me whatever i want if i pay for it. If not I can certainly source and direct any machine shop to produce my components. So it would be wonderful if it was at least enough to fund my research and development. I have probably close to $5000 US into my current project. And right now it's not on the bike yet. But I knew when I started that if I was gonna put together what I really wanted it would take time. But I'm making good progress. Depending if I can get any Machine Time hopefully next week I can get this running on my bike.

Well off to the hardware store for solder so I can Get this all hooked up on the bench.