Start the bike with high-torque and high gear resulting in empty padel and a loud sound?

[Karm]

I pedal very hard on the highest gear while the motor is on the high power mode, just to know the limits of E-bike. Then the pedal goes empty with a loud bang sound. Chain is fine, chainring teeth is fine, cassette teeth seems fine. Don't know about the DT rear hub. What is the possible cause?

 

[reed scott]

I pedal very hard on the highest gear while the motor is on the high power mode, just to know the limits of E-bike. Then the pedal goes empty with a loud bang sound. Chain is fine, chainring teeth is fine, cassette teeth seems fine. Don't know about the DT rear hub. What is the possible cause?

I don't know but what you are doing is highly inadvisable.

 

[Karm]

I don't know but what you are doing is highly inadvisable

Highly inadvisable or not, it's an E-bike and it can be abusively used, just like a motorcycle. It should be much more durable than usual bike and not have some simple components failure like this.

 

[rich c]

Highly inadvisable or not, it's an E-bike and it can be abusively used, just like a motorcycle. It should be much more durable than usual bike and not have some simple components failure like this.

If that is a gear hub motor, you probably broke some nylon gears in it. Those gears do not handle a lot of abuse. How is an eBike more durable than a traditional bicycle? The traditional bicycle has been unchanged for almost 100 years. eBikes have a bunch of cheap Chinese electrical components added that have less than 10-15 years of development. eBikes are far from the durability of a motorcycle. I don't know of any eBikes with 100,000 miles like a Honda Goldwing.

 

[J.R.]

I pedal very hard on the highest gear while the motor is on the high power mode, just to know the limits of E-bike. Then the pedal goes empty with a loud bang sound. Chain is fine, chainring teeth is fine, cassette teeth seems fine. Don't know about the DT rear hub. What is the possible cause?

First, what bike do you own? What drive system, brand and type? Is it a geared hub motor, direct drive hub motor or mid drive? If it is a hub drive do you have a throttle? Does that move the bike?

If the crank and pedals spin free and don't move the bike, you may have damaged the free wheel at the hub. You need to offer more information to get any real help.

Traditional ebikes are nothing more than bicycles. They are built like bicycles, they just have assist added. Always start from a stop in low gear and low to medium assist level. If you were moving at the time and switched to high assist and high gear, there's nothing wrong with that. The bike should be able to do that. With your description I can't tell what you were doing at the time of the breakdown.

 

[reed scott]

" ... just to know the limits of E-bike."

I think you figured that out.

 

[Karm]

Always start from a stop in low gear and low to medium assist level.

Giant XTC E+ PRO.
I don't agree on that. I use bike abusively the same as my motorcycle and not treat it like porcelain. If the bike failed, then its components are not up to the stand. Then I will be away from cycling since it feels more like a leisure sport rather than practical usage.

 

[Karm]

If that is a gear hub motor, you probably broke some nylon gears in it. Those gears do not handle a lot of abuse. How is an eBike more durable than a traditional bicycle? The traditional bicycle has been unchanged for almost 100 years. eBikes have a bunch of cheap Chinese electrical components added that have less than 10-15 years of development. eBikes are far from the durability of a motorcycle. I don't know of any eBikes with 100,000 miles like a Honda Goldwing.

Giant XTC E+ PRO with Yamaha mid-drive motor. Yamaha powered grinder is pretty good at cutting bike chains too. And Yamaha powered motorcycles are the best. Technology has evolved, except the bicycle.

 

[ElevenAD]

What is the possible cause?

THIS "I pedal very hard on the highest gear while the motor is on the high power mode"
you are the cause! maybe you should buy a motor cycle.....and try gunning it from start in the highest gear!
gears are there for a reason.

 

[J.R.]

I use bike abusively

Definition of abusive​

1a: using harsh, insulting languagean angry and abusive crowd
b: harsh and insultingabusive language
c: using or involving physical violence or emotional crueltyabusive behavioran abusive husbandan abusive relationship
2: characterized by wrong or improper use or action

Cause and effect. I wish you luck.

 

[RandallS]

I think we have some ESL here (OP lists location as Taiwan) and perhaps the word should be "aggressive" rather than abusive.

OP doesn't say that he starts on high assist and high gear, just that he was looking to find the limits of the drivetrain. He simply could have been trying to see where the assist drops off. At least, that's an interpretation I am running with.

However, regardless of language issues, it sounds like something in the motor has given up the ghost. I am not all that familiar on the inner workings of the Yamaha motors to comment further.

 

[J.R.]

OP doesn't say that he starts on high assist and high gear, just that he was looking to find the limits of the drivetrain. He simply could have been trying to see where the assist drops off. At least, that's an interpretation I am running with.

That's why I asked the questions above, as I wasn't sure of it either. We don't know what happened. More information is required for any help.

 

[RandallS]

That's why I asked the questions above, as I wasn't sure of it either. We don't know what happened. More information is required for any help.

All the more why I suspect a language issue. The clarifications requested are rather simple, but appear to not be understood. However, his English is significantly better than my Taiwanese...

 

[pennybags]

Giant XTC E+ PRO.
I don't agree on that. I use bike abusively the same as my motorcycle and not treat it like porcelain. If the bike failed, then its components are not up to the stand. Then I will be away from cycling since it feels more like a leisure sport rather than practical usage.

Most bicycle components are not designed for use like an "ebike". There is no way to run away from that, Industry is getting better but the bike you have is a classic old construction, with 1.8-2mm thick aluminum parts across the board.

1. The bike chain can take a max of 200-230 Nm of torque (humans can put out around 120-150Nm of torque, as a reference).
2. The rear hub pawls are similarly specced at 230-250NM of torque. If you are in the wrong gear (or high gear) from adead stop, then you will have one of many failures
- Chain skipping. This is more a rattling sound than a bang
- Casstte skipping - rare but happens. You will notice teeth breaking. That may sound like a bang sometimes.
- The actual hub skipping - this is rare but may also sound like a bang followed by somewhat constant loud clicking or grinding sound
- Your motor skipping (yes, the motor internal clutch / pawls) are also limited to around 200-220 Nm - and at a larger gear you can exceed that. This is also a loud enough bang.

Overall, ebikes aren't motorcycles. You may not like this answer but that is the reality. In words I head from another bike manufacturer on this forum a while ago that have stuck with me - "If you are trying to break something, you will succeed."

If you are looking for strong but lighter components, then we are effectively running up against physical limits of materials known to man. I mean at some point a 1.8-3mm thick aluminum or steel part (avg thickness of parts on a bicycle) can only take so much torque / beating before it breaks. Motorcycles on the other hand average around 8-10mm for most parts, including m10 bolts or higher, thicker steel chassis etc etc. Just basic physics.

If you are in highest gear and are abusing the bike, it will break - sometimes with loud bangs, and sometimes even worse - like frame failure. I would recommend knowing these generic guardrails for ebikes - and then tweaking your ride pattern accordingly.

 

[Karm]

Most bicycle components are not designed for use like an "ebike". There is no way to run away from that, Industry is getting better but the bike you have is a classic old construction, with 1.8-2mm thick aluminum parts across the board.

1. The bike chain can take a max of 200-230 Nm of torque (humans can put out around 120-150Nm of torque, as a reference).
2. The rear hub pawls are similarly specced at 230-250NM of torque. If you are in the wrong gear (or high gear) from adead stop, then you will have one of many failures
- Chain skipping. This is more a rattling sound than a bang
- Casstte skipping - rare but happens. You will notice teeth breaking. That may sound like a bang sometimes.
- The actual hub skipping - this is rare but may also sound like a bang followed by somewhat constant loud clicking or grinding sound
- Your motor skipping (yes, the motor internal clutch / pawls) are also limited to around 200-220 Nm - and at a larger gear you can exceed that. This is also a loud enough bang.

Overall, ebikes aren't motorcycles. You may not like this answer but that is the reality. In words I head from another bike manufacturer on this forum a while ago that have stuck with me - "If you are trying to break something, you will succeed."

If you are looking for strong but lighter components, then we are effectively running up against physical limits of materials known to man. I mean at some point a 1.8-3mm thick aluminum or steel part (avg thickness of parts on a bicycle) can only take so much torque / beating before it breaks. Motorcycles on the other hand average around 8-10mm for most parts, including m10 bolts or higher, thicker steel chassis etc etc. Just basic physics.

If you are in highest gear and are abusing the bike, it will break - sometimes with loud bangs, and sometimes even worse - like frame failure. I would recommend knowing these generic guardrails for ebikes - and then tweaking your ride pattern accordingly.

I'm just putting 40-50 miles on e-bike every day. Now into the winter, It has to be tested this way, I'd rather break it on the test than let it break on the road. If the e-bike cannot even pass the test, it will break on the road. I don't want that happens or the E-bike is not up to the task to be a true commuting vehicles/tools, it's just a leisure sport holiday toy. Anyway, since nobody on the forum knows why this happened, I tell you it is the chain that has excessive oil with the Cassette teeth/Chainring teeth, more friction is needed, no more oil. And the design of a bike chain is so inferior, no seal to contain the oil. I forgot this.

 

[Karm]

You have much more than a language barrier to overcome on this site, where members are generally kind and helpful. You've made little or no attempts to clarify your issue, so good luck and take your attitude for a ride. I imagine your bike won't put up with it either.

I just got warning that cycling club is full of 80% snake oil products. That defines my attitude. Quick in or quick out, simple as that.

 

[pennybags]

I'm just putting 40-50 miles on e-bike every day. Now into the winter, It has to be tested this way, I'd rather break it on the test than let it break on the road. If the e-bike cannot even pass the test, it will break on the road. I don't want that happens or the E-bike is not up to the task to be a true commuting vehicles/tools, it's just a leisure sport holiday toy. Anyway, since nobody on the forum knows why this happened, I tell you it is the chain that has excessive oil with the Cassette teeth/Chainring teeth, more friction is needed, no more oil. And the design of a bike chain is so inferior, no seal to contain the oil. I forgot this.

Hmm. I’d disagree on more friction conceptually. Having less friction is good because it will slip first allowing you to save the drive train first. More friction means immediate failure (teeth will break).

Ebikes are an evolution of bicycles. If you are looking for stronger motorcycle style performance , try SurRon. Those are essentially a 125cc frame adapted for a golden motor drivetrain. Definitely can take a beating. it will best for sure if you abuse it, but you may get a few more hours for the same money.

 

[pennybags]

I just got warning that cycling club is full of 80% snake oil products. That defines my attitude. Quick in or quick out, simple as that.

I think what’s hard to understand is what you really need. Are you angry at the bicycle, at the community, at the parts , or the usage limits?
If you are angry at the bicycle, not much can be done.
If you are angry at the community, people will try to help. If you keep pushing them away, not much can be done.
If you are angry at the parts, not much can be done.
if you are angry at performance and usage limits, unfortunately not much can be done.

 

[Karm]

Hmm. I’d disagree on more friction conceptually. Having less friction is good because it will slip first allowing you to save the drive train first. More friction means immediate failure (teeth will break).

Ebikes are an evolution of bicycles. If you are looking for stronger motorcycle style performance , try SurRon. Those are essentially a 125cc frame adapted for a golden motor drivetrain. Definitely can take a beating. it will best for sure if you abuse it, but you may get a few more hours for the same money.

The SurRon is like Yamaha XT 500 but an E-bike. SurRon is not that durable, believe me.

I think what’s hard to understand is what you really need. Are you angry at the bicycle, at the community, at the parts , or the usage limits?
If you are angry at the bicycle, not much can be done.
If you are angry at the community, people will try to help. If you keep pushing them away, not much can be done.
If you are angry at the parts, not much can be done.
if you are angry at performance and usage limits, unfortunately not much can be done.

All I need is to know if there is an alternative commuting tool for gas-powered motorcycle. One thing motorcycle cannot hide is that it attracts too much attention, bicycle is more stealth, but it's too slow and unreliable.
Also, the bicycle tire puncture resistance is so low. I just got a puncture and all the sealant is advised to work at only 30 psi. Higher than that the sealant is obsolete unless you patch tires with pads.

 

[pennybags]

The SurRon is like Yamaha XT 500 but an E-bike. SurRon is not that durable, believe me.

All I need is to know if there is an alternative commuting tool for gas-powered motorcycle. One thing motorcycle cannot hide is that it attracts too much attention, bicycle is more stealth, but it's too slow and unreliable.
Also, the bicycle tire puncture resistance is so low. I just got a puncture and all the sealant is advised to work at only 30 psi. Higher than that the sealant is obsolete unless you patch tires with pads.

1. Are you going on paved roads or off road?

2. If you are getting punctures, try the Armour insert. It makes things heavy to be honest but that is a viable happy medium.

3. I’d recommend using tubes. Gaadi makes a one way tube- it’s good enough for the most part and you don’t have to take the wheel off at all.

I would also recommend switching to a slightly powerful motor like the ultra (of you can). Those are heavy and overall give you more bang for the buck. If you like the stock controller, you can upgrade to the Archon X1 to get even better performance.

another alternative is the grin Gmac hub motor. It’s heavy duty from what I’ve read, and especially great if you are on flats.

I understand that both motor options mean a new bike.