Stefan Mikes
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Europe
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- Mazovia, Poland
No.
Specialized’s ultra-light 120-mile range e-bike - Turbo Vado SL
- Thread starter FlatSix911
- Start date
FlatSix911
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Silicon Valley
As mentioned previously, there are other OEM equivalents available... 33 lbs and 28 mph.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products...s-electric-gravel-road-bikes-emulekick-sl.htm
Stefan Mikes
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, Poland
All fine if not the B-thingAs mentioned previously, there are other OEM equivalents available... 33 lbs and 28 mph.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products...s-electric-gravel-road-bikes-emulekick-sl.htm
"You don't let your friends buy the B-thing"
There's this one by Cannondale:
Cannondale Electric City Bikes | REI Co-op
Shop for Cannondale Electric City Bikes at REI - FREE SHIPPING With $50 minimum purchase. Curbside Pickup Available NOW! 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
In the same weight class as a Vado SL but it is a hub drive system. Cheaper too.
BigNerd
Well-Known Member
Yep. Been looking at the Cannondale... I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread. Only issue is I can only find the SL 1 via REI's site... doesn't seem like anyone is selling the SL 2.
I don't mind the hub drive.... I think the 250w should be sufficient as I'm only looking for assist on hills... don't even need a throttle or higher than Class 1.
I'm actually looking at just a light analog hybrid bike to see if that is easier to ride up hills than my heavier MTB.
I don't mind the hub drive.... I think the 250w should be sufficient as I'm only looking for assist on hills... don't even need a throttle or higher than Class 1.
I'm actually looking at just a light analog hybrid bike to see if that is easier to ride up hills than my heavier MTB.
SwiftySanders
Active Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- New York, NY
Hub drives are a big no no for me. I don't like the way they feel when I ride at all. I have a strong preference for mid drive.There's this one by Cannondale:
Cannondale Electric City Bikes | REI Co-op
Shop for Cannondale Electric City Bikes at REI - FREE SHIPPING With $50 minimum purchase. Curbside Pickup Available NOW! 100% Satisfaction Guaranteewww.rei.com
In the same weight class as a Vado SL but it is a hub drive system. Cheaper too.
Kivis
Member
My question is who needs the TCD? The PDF fact sheet is impossible to read. Doesn't Mission Control do all the TCD does and more? (New owner of a Vado SL 5.0EQ)
BEC111
Well-Known Member
As far as I know it does all and more. Even if I had the TCD, I’d use Mission Control to set assist levels and even monitor my rides from my pocket. Mostly to get the data via Strava onto my iPhone’s health app, though I find Strava a useful tool for tracking my level of conditioning.
The TCD is definitely not needed. The only reason to add it to my SL 4 would be to have $100 device instead of a $1000 one on my handlebars. Not a totally bad reason, I guess.
I have the same bike as you. Sure you can get all the information you need and more from Mission Control but I prefer not to be futzing with a smart phone on my handlebars while I am riding. The default first page of the TCD shows at a glance speed, distance traveled, battery and assist levels and the time. That’s all I need when I am in the saddle. Yes the pdf of the TCD instructions is impossible to read at it’s native size but I can blow up the section I need to read on my pc or tablet. To each his (or her) own however regarding information retrieval while riding. What is most important is that it’s a great ride.
Stefan Mikes
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, Poland
Every user of the "heavy" Vado appreciates the fact the TCD-W (wired) display is there, because having a detailed bike computer on the stem is just a great thing (and Jeff appreciates that with his TCD). It is different in e-MTB world where the rider simply has no time to consult the display. For this reason, the first generation of Turbo Levo had no display at all; all what was there was a 10-bar battery state display. Now, all SL e-bikes (Levo, Vado, Creo) rely on the bluetooth connectivity and the TCD is an optional item. Personally, I like to know at what speed I ride, what the exact battery % is, how far have I ridden and what time it has taken. Cadence, rider's power input, calories, max speed, average speed and odometer -- as well as Heart Rate -- are nice extras. (I don't think you can have the Cadence or Rider's Power in the Mission Control). Moreover, having the smartphone on the handlebars is doable for me but the battery typically dries up after couple of hours' ride (then you need to use a powerbank). I ride with a smartphone on the handlebars but found using Mission Control impractical on my rides save the Smart Control. The display is the must for me.
1st Ride Vado Sl 4 unequipped
Hi all. Took the plunge and bought a vado sl. Did my first ever e bike ride on it yesterday. Forgot about turning on Mission Control, good start. Did the short loop me and my boy did all summer in lockdown. Haven’t been cycling for about a month so could feel I wasn’t in any shape, plus weather in mid Oct, colder and wetter then summer. Felt a bit unsettled by both of these & nervous about the e bike. Anyway - that loop has a huge hill. It’s long and unforgiving, very steep in parts. We live in a very hilly part of England on Dartmoor. Normally, in granny gear, we’d both need to stop 4 times over the hill’s rolling length. These stopping places became set targets to get to, before a literal collapse in my case, panting and occasionally seeing stars! Further on there is another steep but shorter hill, at this one we’d stop 2 times depending on how pissed off we were! All this in about 4 or 5 miles of cycling. This is the main reason I got an e bike - beyond this circle of hills there are several fairly flatter routes, including 20 mile long cycle paths and old bridleways across the moor. But towards August (and during a few weeks of rain) I began to find it daunting facing the hills and the pain and began to make excuses not to ride, or would take bike in car to flatter regions, which takes more planning & time so ended up not riding much at all.
Anyway today on the Vado SL I didn’t stop once on either hill. That is amazing, but actually at the time, I was a bit confused, having read all the glowing reviews of e bikes and the magical ease of climbing, I found myself playing around with both gears and assist levels trying to find the right combo and feeling out of breath and in the wrong rhythm. It wasn’t easy. Early on, in sport mode - middle setting -and in a high gear I was spinning too fast, or it was too hard on lower gears but then hitting the steep slopes I finally settled on my 42 at back and gave in, hitting turbo mode- I was a little disappointed I had to use turbo and the granny gear equiv, and it’s clear it’s going to take some getting use to the combinations of gears and assist levels and also speed of pedalling to feel comfortable.
I know I can adjust assist levels in MC and no doubt I will, but think I need to get a real feel for what each combo does first otherwise unlimited MC options will just confuse further.
Anyway I did the short hilly loop without stopping once. That is remarkable. And being out of breath is good, I’m working and pushing but am amazed I didn’t have to stop. Will try even steeper hills next to see if they are doable. Used 2 bars over the 8 miles with 700 feet of climbing - turbo on hills, sport on lower slopes, eco or nothing on the rest but all very random and confused for now. I expected the battery to take a wallop on these hills. I should be able to get over the hills and do 20 to 30 miles or more on the flat leaving enough battery for the last few miles and reverse side of hills to get home. Lets see.
Other thoughts; I’m 5’9”, 50 and overweight. Been cycling all my life, bmx and mountain bikes early 80s onwards, couple of years as a roadie then back to mtb and commuting and very little last ten years as life took front of stage. The kids got me back into it, helping them learn and in process rediscovering my joy. At 5’9” turns out I’m in between M and L sizes. Went for M - and the shop was sold out of Ls anyway so after test ride it didn’t feel cramped so went for it. If I’d had waited for L, I’ll be waiting until I get old I think with such a rush on bikes of all kinds.
On my ordinary bike, my much loved steel, Genesis Croix De Fer I swapped out the drops for high rise stem (nice Ritchey 31 degree) and a pair of swept back bars. These give me 3 or 4 different hand positions with the (non indexed) gear shifters at bar ends cyclocross style and claris flat bar brake levers. I have a bad back or rather I could have, from old racing injury if I’m not sensible and found I was never down on the drops. With the sweeps I can climb with hands either side of stem or on the curves, equating to riding on the hoods and on fast potholed or gravel descents the wide grip part is kind to my wrists as my hands & joints are more vertical if that makes sense. For gearing comparison, Vado SL; 44 front ring & 42 rear versus 34 front and 40 rear on the Genesis and yet I’m stopping on the steep slopes on the Genesis. As I get used to the SL I might consider a smaller chainring, if I feel I need it.
With the SL, as expected I do feel too hunched over the lower positioned bars and the bars are a bit one note/one position, I’m missing all the hand positions but especially the upright Dutch style when hands are on the grips and back straight. Often on flats, I sit well back watching the countryside, fingers just hooked around the bar end shifters, often whistling, like an elegant Dutch lady heading to market. It’s a really comfortable cockpit and as I’m only racing against myself, I’m happy to be upright and comfortable. So I think I’m going to have to see how I can replicate this set up. It’s tricky with hydro cables not cheap to lengthen them & the front light fitting connected to existing stem is a pain and I have severe reluctance to spend any more of my kids dinner money on toys for this bike. Which has cost me about 4 times more then any bike I’ve ever owned.
It does feel sluggish and heavy both on corners and generally with assist off will need a few more rides to see how I feel about this. It is only about four or five pounds heavier then my steel Croix de fer but definitely isn’t as responsive - that bike seems to leap forward at every command and is a joy to ride. I’m going to do longer rides over the coming days. The aim is to keep cycling through the winter. Biggest winter problem here is the short days and unremitting rain. We get so much rain here oh my god, but can still get out all winter unlike more frozen places. As the legendary Irish cyclist Sean Kelly said “To know if the weather’s too bad for training, put on your gear, go training, then you’ll know when you get back” : )
Hi all. Took the plunge and bought a vado sl. Did my first ever e bike ride on it yesterday. Forgot about turning on Mission Control, good start. Did the short loop me and my boy did all summer in lockdown. Haven’t been cycling for about a month so could feel I wasn’t in any shape, plus weather in mid Oct, colder and wetter then summer. Felt a bit unsettled by both of these & nervous about the e bike. Anyway - that loop has a huge hill. It’s long and unforgiving, very steep in parts. We live in a very hilly part of England on Dartmoor. Normally, in granny gear, we’d both need to stop 4 times over the hill’s rolling length. These stopping places became set targets to get to, before a literal collapse in my case, panting and occasionally seeing stars! Further on there is another steep but shorter hill, at this one we’d stop 2 times depending on how pissed off we were! All this in about 4 or 5 miles of cycling. This is the main reason I got an e bike - beyond this circle of hills there are several fairly flatter routes, including 20 mile long cycle paths and old bridleways across the moor. But towards August (and during a few weeks of rain) I began to find it daunting facing the hills and the pain and began to make excuses not to ride, or would take bike in car to flatter regions, which takes more planning & time so ended up not riding much at all.
Anyway today on the Vado SL I didn’t stop once on either hill. That is amazing, but actually at the time, I was a bit confused, having read all the glowing reviews of e bikes and the magical ease of climbing, I found myself playing around with both gears and assist levels trying to find the right combo and feeling out of breath and in the wrong rhythm. It wasn’t easy. Early on, in sport mode - middle setting -and in a high gear I was spinning too fast, or it was too hard on lower gears but then hitting the steep slopes I finally settled on my 42 at back and gave in, hitting turbo mode- I was a little disappointed I had to use turbo and the granny gear equiv, and it’s clear it’s going to take some getting use to the combinations of gears and assist levels and also speed of pedalling to feel comfortable.
I know I can adjust assist levels in MC and no doubt I will, but think I need to get a real feel for what each combo does first otherwise unlimited MC options will just confuse further.
Anyway I did the short hilly loop without stopping once. That is remarkable. And being out of breath is good, I’m working and pushing but am amazed I didn’t have to stop. Will try even steeper hills next to see if they are doable. Used 2 bars over the 8 miles with 700 feet of climbing - turbo on hills, sport on lower slopes, eco or nothing on the rest but all very random and confused for now. I expected the battery to take a wallop on these hills. I should be able to get over the hills and do 20 to 30 miles or more on the flat leaving enough battery for the last few miles and reverse side of hills to get home. Lets see.
Other thoughts; I’m 5’9”, 50 and overweight. Been cycling all my life, bmx and mountain bikes early 80s onwards, couple of years as a roadie then back to mtb and commuting and very little last ten years as life took front of stage. The kids got me back into it, helping them learn and in process rediscovering my joy. At 5’9” turns out I’m in between M and L sizes. Went for M - and the shop was sold out of Ls anyway so after test ride it didn’t feel cramped so went for it. If I’d had waited for L, I’ll be waiting until I get old I think with such a rush on bikes of all kinds.
On my ordinary bike, my much loved steel, Genesis Croix De Fer I swapped out the drops for high rise stem (nice Ritchey 31 degree) and a pair of swept back bars. These give me 3 or 4 different hand positions with the (non indexed) gear shifters at bar ends cyclocross style and claris flat bar brake levers. I have a bad back or rather I could have, from old racing injury if I’m not sensible and found I was never down on the drops. With the sweeps I can climb with hands either side of stem or on the curves, equating to riding on the hoods and on fast potholed or gravel descents the wide grip part is kind to my wrists as my hands & joints are more vertical if that makes sense. For gearing comparison, Vado SL; 44 front ring & 42 rear versus 34 front and 40 rear on the Genesis and yet I’m stopping on the steep slopes on the Genesis. As I get used to the SL I might consider a smaller chainring, if I feel I need it.
With the SL, as expected I do feel too hunched over the lower positioned bars and the bars are a bit one note/one position, I’m missing all the hand positions but especially the upright Dutch style when hands are on the grips and back straight. Often on flats, I sit well back watching the countryside, fingers just hooked around the bar end shifters, often whistling, like an elegant Dutch lady heading to market. It’s a really comfortable cockpit and as I’m only racing against myself, I’m happy to be upright and comfortable. So I think I’m going to have to see how I can replicate this set up. It’s tricky with hydro cables not cheap to lengthen them & the front light fitting connected to existing stem is a pain and I have severe reluctance to spend any more of my kids dinner money on toys for this bike. Which has cost me about 4 times more then any bike I’ve ever owned.
It does feel sluggish and heavy both on corners and generally with assist off will need a few more rides to see how I feel about this. It is only about four or five pounds heavier then my steel Croix de fer but definitely isn’t as responsive - that bike seems to leap forward at every command and is a joy to ride. I’m going to do longer rides over the coming days. The aim is to keep cycling through the winter. Biggest winter problem here is the short days and unremitting rain. We get so much rain here oh my god, but can still get out all winter unlike more frozen places. As the legendary Irish cyclist Sean Kelly said “To know if the weather’s too bad for training, put on your gear, go training, then you’ll know when you get back” : )
Thank you so much for sharing this! Even my specialized shop did not know how to do it. I was on a recent camping trip, and the tenters next to me did not deserve to have a light blasting them, and I like to charge will driving with it mounted on my rack. The best I could do was make covers out of cut up soda cans. Knowing how to turn it off is a huge help! Thanks again.
Copyrider
Active Member
There's definitely a learning curve involved in climbing hills with these "properly assisted" bikes. Anyone who's ridden an unassisted bike will likely have the inclination to muscle over the hill by torque. Conversely, an ebike like a regular Vado (with gobs of assist) begs you to crank it to the highest mid-level gear you can muster and let the bike do most of the work.
The Vado SL is in-between. As you note, you still have to work on the steepest hills. But there's a bit more cycling technique involved in the SL. You'll get a feel for your climbing configuration in pretty short order, and be able to find your gear in advance of the hill and pedal more effectively. In (admittedly overly) simple terms, as I've stated before, cadence seems to be the dominant force in an SL's climbing performance, rather than torque.
So, resist the urge to push harder on the pedals and instead, gear to a comfortable setting where you can keep a steady, even cadence and keep your butt in the saddle. That will yield the most efficient assist response in climbing... at least that has been my finding in hilly San Francisco.
Thanks for that Copyrider. I'd read with interest your San Francisco hills account & the SL, very very helpful. So that was in my head when I started riding. But it's one thing knowing the theory, another when I turn a corner and see the potholed wall ahead... I've now done a few more (hilly) rides and am getting the hang. I had to stop on one where I misjudged the steepness and length on a very twisty climb. But it's a road I've never ridden up (never dared attempt it) on my ordinary bike and tried it on a whim and ran out of gears, assist and breathing(!) so had to stop. But other then that one I've been able to get up the rest of the hills I attempt. And that is a real victory. Makes me feel lightheaded. As you say it's keeping a comfortable cadence. On the really steep parts where I'm already in granny gear and with only turbo left as an option I occasionally misjudge it and am totally out of breath by the top. But climbs I did on my first ride in turbo I now do on the middle setting, so with time, and increased aerobic fitness I should be able to judge assist and speed better & keep it comfortable.
The bike still feels stiff and a bit clunky but I'm getting used to it and pushing it more. It's great. The one aspect I haven't got to try is straight, level road speed in turbo, because I haven't gone on any straight level roads yet. As there aren't any within my local 6 -8 mile loops! The only flat ground in my town is the cricket pitch which, I guess was bulldozed flat when built long ago! Next weekend I have time to do a longer spin and will hit the cycle trails beyond my local hills. One thought on that- I never considered speed when I got interested in e bikes. Mostly because of the hills. Even downhill you have to guard the brakes as they are so technical, narrow and blind, cars or worse, amazon delivery vans with the drivers on bare minimum wage and paid per delivery can suddenly appear on bends and the lanes are only car width, often with granite walls or sunken lanes and nowhere to escape. I didn't know about the 15mph limitations versus 28mph? in US until I saw the Court video of him trying out a yellow vado on a Specialised Demo day in California, and the speeds he was getting on the main roads. Wow. That looks a lot of fun. I'd never felt in my lifetime on ordinary bikes that I needed to go faster, or rather, needed an assist but that e bike speed looks interesting and it was a lightbulb moment as to why for commuting, powerful e bikes make a lot of sense.
It also shows that arguments about e bike or natural bike, or between which types of e bikes is just pointless. It's completely horses for courses, with terrain, age, fitness, weight and type of riding all factors. Ride what you like. Personally I'd now love to try the powerful Vado's or Treks or those cool looking Moustache bikes, but will also still ride on my steel framed Croix De Fer some days too. It's all fun.
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Stefan Mikes
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Europe
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- Mazovia, Poland
It is doable for you to ride a 45 km/h (28 mph) e-bike in England but after a lot formalities to be fulfilled, and there are not too many e-bikes in this class in Europe @Rás Cnoic. Ask me if you need.
kmccune
Well-Known Member
Interesting,I just found this thread,I consider a 55# EBike lightweight( my "cruiser" is an 82# monster even though it is fairly comfortable its beginning to dawn on me , maybe this bike isn't the best for these steep hills and rough as cob roads( full of "anklebreakers") one thing about these really light EBikes there are friction drive strap on units one could add if greater "Hillability" is desired,I consider a gearset too low if a Chap pushing a standard bike passes you whilst you are pedaling( it amazes me the balance some of these riders have).
kmccune
Well-Known Member
Ah, ha! Going to check into that , my sore neck thanks you!
Thanks Stefan - I still feel immense guilt over buying the SL. It has opened my eyes to the e bike world, so in the futures who knows? Maybe I'll buy the right lottery ticket...
Stefan Mikes
Well-Known Member
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- Europe
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- Mazovia, Poland
The SL wouldn't be good for me (my health requires a lot of assistance). Still, the SL is a great e-bike. Ride it a lot. Your shape might improve over the time and then it would be me who is jealous about your SL
Honestly, I'd like to own such a lightweight e-bike...
