Specialized Turbo Vado SL: An Incredible E-Bike (User Club)

[Stefan Mikes]

I am far from taller and getting shorter each day. I went with medium aluminum Creo rather than small (Spec's site recommended small for me) after testing it. But I don't use your leg over top tube mounting method. I "wildly" swing my right leg (the one that had its hip replaced twice) over the saddle!!!! Hoping to remain standing when I complete the swing.

Kahn: What is your own "standover height"? Mine is 780 mm. With the 811 mm Standover Height of Creo size M, I would lose my private parts on the first ride! Why in the earth Spesh thinks all people have long legs?!

 

[kahn]

Thank you! I will indeed do it, just out of curiosity.

@Rider51: I slowly begin to think "creoizing" Vado SL might be harder than it appears. (Let us put all cost considerations aside: a lot of components should be replaced, I know). There is one fundamental thing that might make replacing the flat bars with drop bars impractical: the bar grip area diameter.

The standard flat handlebar grip area diameter is 22.2 mm (7/8"), while that parameter for drop handlebar is 23.8 mm (15/16"). What if the Vado handlebar remote wouldn't fit the road bar? (Creo has no remote whatsoever!)

P.S. I have lowered the bars even more. The riding position is more aggressive but still not painful now.

Kahn: What is your own "standover height"? Mine is 780 mm. With the 811 mm Standover Height of Creo size M, I would lose my private parts on the first ride! Why in the earth Spesh thinks all people have long legs?!

I don't see "stand over height" specifically listed in the spec but I might not be reading correctly. I do clear it with some spare room on the medium.

Product Specs | Specialized.com

www.specialized.com

Have you seen those lithe Californians, both men and women. Long legs, no bellies, perfect specimens or Specialized-mens!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I don't see "stand over height" specifically listed in the spec but I might not be reading correctly. I do clear it with some spare room on the medium.

Stand in your cycling shoes and support your body against a wall. Put a book in your crotch. Keeping the book against a wall, step aside and measure the distance from the book's top edge to the floor. It is your own "standover height". If the spec of the bike tells you its own standover height is greater than yours, you're gonna hang with your private parts on the top tube on the first occasion.
Very nasty for us, males.

Creo SL is a terribly tall e-bike.

 

[Calcoaster]

Kahn: What is your own "standover height"? Mine is 780 mm. With the 811 mm Standover Height of Creo size M, I would lose my private parts on the first ride! Why in the earth Spesh thinks all people have long legs?!

I tested an XL Creo along with the XL Vado SL that I ended up buying and the Creo was much smaller. I wonder if your measurements are off - My chart shows these stand over heights (2021 models) for the Creo: S 731, M 759, L 782, XL 810, XXL 840. The Vado SL shows as: S 770, M 790, L 815, XL 840

What size is your Vado SL?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Calcoaster: See the listing of the Creo SL geometry from the page I've just seen:

Product Specs | Specialized.com

www.specialized.com

It is for Creo SL Comp E5.

How comes your values are so different?

Stand-Over Height for my Vado SL (size M). My crotch is very close to the top tube but not touching it!

 

[kahn]

Stand in your cycling shoes and support your body against a wall. Put a book in your crotch. Keeping the book against a wall, step aside and measure the distance from the book's top edge to the floor. It is your own "standover height". If the spec of the bike tells you its own standover height is greater than yours, you're gonna hang with your private parts on the top tube on the first occasion.
Very nasty for us, males.

View attachment 104202
Creo SL is a terribly tall e-bike.

Funny!!! Or not. When I first read about using the book to measure standover height, I for some reason pictured the book horizontal, like sitting on a WIDE saddle. Then I saw a picture of the spine of the book in the crotch!!

I am going to try getting in an early 15 miles very soon while our weather took a quick temperature upturn before it drops and 4 days of rain come forth!!

 

[Calcoaster]

Calcoaster: See the listing of the Creo SL geometry from the page I've just seen:

Product Specs | Specialized.com

www.specialized.com

It is for Creo SL Comp E5.

How comes your values are so different?

View attachment 104203
Stand-Over Height for my Vado SL (size M). My crotch is very close to the top tube but not touching it!

I do see the E5 (Aluminum Creo) shows the stand over heights your chart shows, with all the other models showing the much lower heights in my post. I wonder if the Specialized data for the E5 is an error. When I tested my Vado SL against a Creo, I rode and XL aluminum Creo and it was much lower than my XL Vado. It also seems odd that Specialized would make one model of the same bike with substantially different geometry than the other models. It might be wise to look at Medium E5 in person before ruling one out.

 

[Allan47.7339]

Yes. Bear in mind the SL is a low power e-bike, though. Anything that might make it faster with the existing motor would be greatly welcome!
Riding against 27 km/h headwind slows the thing down to 17 km/h at 66% assistance!

One could asked why I didn't buy a Creo (Alu). The answer is very simple: the top tube in Creo (even in size S) is crazily tall! Who has invented a road bike with the minimum standover height of 791 mm?! There are many people who are far shorter than I am...

I don't know if you've noticed this before but the Creo and Vado SL 5.0 share some common P/N's. (The Creo small standover is 731mm.) The Vado SL page has an original parts listing but the Creo only has spare parts so the forks are not listed. Probably for competitive reasons they don't give enough data points to accurately compare the two frames.

S192300032 FRK MY20 CREO SL (SIZE LG) & VADO SL 5.0 (SIZE SM) STN CARBON

 

[Calcoaster]

Stefan, another option for a more aero position is one that has been discussed before, but might be worth revisiting, is the SQ Labs inner bar end. I use them (along with the GP3) and they let me get lower and bring my elbows in, which is also important for an aero position. They feel a lot like being on the hoods of a drop bar bike, and my fingers are on the brake levers when I use them.

 

[mschwett]

the other advantage of the more “forward” riding position is that it takes weight off your butt and puts it onto the pedals / your feet, which of course is the part of your body designed to support your weight while in motion. there’s a reason they call them “saddles” and not “seats”

i’m not a particularly flexible person (i don’t think?!?) and engage in no age-appropriate exercise other than walking and cycling, but found that the only thing in the way of proper cycling posture / position was a bike fitting, time, and practice. it seemed awkward and unstable at first, so i went with an 18 degree stem tilted up. then a 6 degree stem tilted up. then a 6 degree stem tilted down. feels great!

 

[mschwett]

…


Creo SL is a terribly tall e-bike.

it’s funny, my XL creo seems very small to me compared to the vanmoof s3! which only comes in one size

imagine if it didn’t have “compact” geometry (where the top tube slopes down)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

It's all very interesting, guys! Very! Because indeed all carbon fibre Creos have the Stand-Over Height figures far lower than they are for the E5. (I even didn't consider looking at the specs because of the price of CF e-bikes). (Allan: You do not suggest Vado SL and Creo SL share their frames, do you?)

The issue here is Specialized Warsaw have no single Creo on display now, and certainly they do not have a demo Creo presently. I could be very interested to at least see a Creo in person to get better understanding of its geometry. (When the Brand Store had several Creos in the store, I was not interested to try any of them at that time).

If any Creo appears at the LBS, I would be very much interested in the Gen 1 version (because of the derestriction aspects). I won't be seated on a 25 km/h road e-bike, oh no; I wouldn't be able to match my gravel riding buddies on road with a speed limited e-bike.

@Calcoaster: Did you need to move your brake levers even more inside to be able to install the Inner-bars? How did that affect the lever reach from the main part of the handlebar grip?

@kahn: "Book spine" was the word I was missing

@mschwett: We are experiencing very dangerous winds at the moment so I could only ride my modified Vado SL inside the building. It is fascinating how comfortable the e-bike became after lowering the handlebars that much, with some reach added.

 

[Allan47.7339]

It's all very interesting, guys! Very! Because indeed all carbon fibre Creos have the Stand-Over Height figures far lower than they are for the E5. (I even didn't consider looking at the specs because of the price of CF e-bikes). (Allan: You do not suggest Vado SL and Creo SL share their frames, do you?)

The issue here is Specialized Warsaw have no single Creo on display now, and certainly they do not have a demo Creo presently. I could be very interested to at least see a Creo in person to get better understanding of its geometry. (When the Brand Store had several Creos in the store, I was not interested to try any of them at that time).

If any Creo appears at the LBS, I would be very much interested in the Gen 1 version (because of the derestriction aspects). I won't be seated on a 25 km/h road e-bike, oh no; I wouldn't be able to match my gravel riding buddies on road with a speed limited e-bike.

Calcoaster: Did you need to move your brake levers even more inside to be able to install the Inner-bars? How did that affect the lever reach from the main part of the handlebar grip?

Kahn: "Book spine" was the word I was missing

mschwett: We are experiencing very dangerous winds at the moment so I could only ride my modified Vado SL inside the building. It is fascinating how comfortable the e-bike became after lowering the handlebars that much, with some reach added.

I did notice a discrepancy in the Creo Aluminum vs Carbon data tables and the aluminum version shows 811mm stand over for a Small frame?? I suspect it is a misprint since that is in between the L and XL in a carbon version. I do not think they share the same aluminum frame assembly but some components prior to welding may share common tooling. It's pretty clear to see the differences at the head tube and seat tube clamp. Chain stay length is also different.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I suspect it is a misprint since that is in between the L and XL in a carbon version.

It must be, then. It is weird to think a Small bike would be as tall! Pity, as I could have considered a Creo earlier this year. Not that I'm not happy with my Vado SL: it is only my needs have changed. Everybody around me got crazy with that gravel cycling thing

 

[Allan47.7339]

It must be, then. It is weird to think a Small bike would be as tall! Pity, as I could have considered a Creo earlier this year. Not that I'm not happy with my Vado SL: it is only my needs have changed. Everybody around me got crazy with that gravel cycling thing

I could say I know nothing about wishing I had consided a Creo earlier except I now have an underused Vado SL.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I could say I know nothing about wishing I had consided a Creo earlier except I now have an underused Vado SL.

Well... That would be a heresy for me to do grocery shopping on a Creo

 

[mschwett]

It's all very interesting, guys! Very! Because indeed all carbon fibre Creos have the Stand-Over Height figures far lower than they are for the E5. (I even didn't consider looking at the specs because of the price of CF e-bikes). (Allan: You do not suggest Vado SL and Creo SL share their frames, do you?)

The issue here is Specialized Warsaw have no single Creo on display now, and certainly they do not have a demo Creo presently. I could be very interested to at least see a Creo in person to get better understanding of its geometry. (When the Brand Store had several Creos in the store, I was not interested to try any of them at that time).

...

the differences between the two can probably be summed up by saying that for any given size, the creo is shorter, and lower. it's definitely not a particularly racy geometry for a road bike - call it halfway between a fitness bike like the vado sl and a true racy road bike like a tarmac. the creo much longer stems (20-25mm) which plus drop bars gives a range of hand positions from "somewhat similar, but much narrower" on the top of the bars to "much much lower but about the same reach" on the drops. on the hoods, the "shorter" frame is more than cancelled out, putting the rider in a more elongated and somewhat lower position.

it's this ability to move around while seated that i find refreshing about drop bar bikes; three different positions while seated, two of which are also useful out of the saddle!

note also in the diagram that the bottom of the wheels are not on the ground, the alignment point is the bb; the offsets of the sets of lines are relative to the riders feet. relative to the ground, the creo is lower still. in the medium size, standover height is a full 31mm lower!

 

[mschwett]

Well... That would be a heresy for me to do grocery shopping on a Creo

not at all! i do sometimes, on a carbon one, of course. the cargo to vehicle weight ratio is excellent!

 

[kahn]

not at all! i do sometimes, on a carbon one, of course. the cargo to vehicle weight ratio is excellent!

I was going to say something similar. It is your bike, do what you want with it. Shop, race, tour, stare at it!

 

[Calcoaster]

It's all very interesting, guys! Very! Because indeed all carbon fibre Creos have the Stand-Over Height figures far lower than they are for the E5. (I even didn't consider looking at the specs because of the price of CF e-bikes). (Allan: You do not suggest Vado SL and Creo SL share their frames, do you?)

The issue here is Specialized Warsaw have no single Creo on display now, and certainly they do not have a demo Creo presently. I could be very interested to at least see a Creo in person to get better understanding of its geometry. (When the Brand Store had several Creos in the store, I was not interested to try any of them at that time).

If any Creo appears at the LBS, I would be very much interested in the Gen 1 version (because of the derestriction aspects). I won't be seated on a 25 km/h road e-bike, oh no; I wouldn't be able to match my gravel riding buddies on road with a speed limited e-bike.

@Calcoaster: Did you need to move your brake levers even more inside to be able to install the Inner-bars? How did that affect the lever reach from the main part of the handlebar grip?

@kahn: "Book spine" was the word I was missing

@mschwett: We are experiencing very dangerous winds at the moment so I could only ride my modified Vado SL inside the building. It is fascinating how comfortable the e-bike became after lowering the handlebars that much, with some reach added.

Stefan, I put the SQL inner bars up against my grips and did move the brake levers out a little. It’s not a problem at all and the brake levers are still an easy reach from both the grips and the inner ends.