Should I convert my mtb or buy a pre-made one?

[PedalUma]

I did an old Gary Fisher today. My Specialized Chisel came with an air fork and makes a great all around bike, including mountain trails, but not rock gardens. It got the all through frame treatment. With no connectors.

 

[JES2020]

View attachment 125390View attachment 125391
View attachment 125392

Fix that s*it !

 

[PedalUma]

Fix that s*it !

That guy is so proud of his bike! He just wanted a derailleur adjustment. It has four different colors of zip ties, everywhere.

 

[rz514]

So guys, If you were to choose between a 500w (up to 750w) rear hub motor (shred 604) vs DIY mid motor either bafang 1000w or TSDZ2 500w (up to 750w) which would you choose for 70% road and 30% trails?

Is the 1000w bafang overkill for trails? or is there a mode that can restrict the power and be ok for light trails?

I tried the Shred 604 and it felt really smooth and good with the acceleration, was a nice bike - but from my research I read that mtb should be mid drive?

 

[tomjasz]

Is the 1000w bafang overkill for trails? is there a mode that can restrict the power and be ok for light trails?

No not at all Tougher than a BBS02. BBSHD 1000W Takes a beating and keeps on ticking.
I rode it constantly with heavy throttle use in 4th without changing gears on the flats. Used by MANY pedicab companies.

I believe in programming it to lower amperage. Easy Peasy.

 

[rz514]

No not at all Tougher than a BBS02. BBSHD 1000W Takes a beating and keeps on ticking.
I rode it constantly with heavy throttle use in 4th without changing gears on the flats. Used by MANY pedicab companies.

I believe in programming it to lower amperage. Easy Peasy.

I feel like going the DIY route with a bafang 1000w mid drive would be my best choice but someone had commented about cables hanging and all while trailing and the marlin 6 has a pretty flat frame, i wonder if it would be possible to put all the cables inside or will that be hell with hanging cables lol

 

[PedalUma]

I feel like going the DIY route with a bafang 1000w mid drive would be my best choice but someone had commented about cables hanging and all while trailing and the marlin 6 has a pretty flat frame, i wonder if it would be possible to put all the cables inside or will that be hell with hanging cables lol

Others have seen this bike. Sorry to bore those gentlemen. This is the Chisel with an air fork. I put a riser drop bar on it. Took it to 9-Sp from 11-Sp to make it more robust and did through frame everything. It climbs like a tiger. I took it from hydro to mechanical for simplicity. It has a cadence sensor but more importantly a torque sensor. I removed all bits that cause any lag. It is super smooth. It is rated at 350 nominal but out climbs a 1000W Ultra on a 12 percent grade. It hits 720W peeks. The Big Ben tires roll fast over gravel and broken pavement. The wire to the right is to the display on the left. Zero zip ties.

 

[JES2020]

I feel like going the DIY route with a bafang 1000w mid drive would be my best choice but someone had commented about cables hanging and all while trailing and the marlin 6 has a pretty flat frame, i wonder if it would be possible to put all the cables inside or will that be hell with hanging cables lol

Seriously if you're going to install internal cable and wires, for the amount of work you have to do, you might as well buy a pre-made bike.
Unless you like working for something like $25 an hour.
Understand literally everyone has their favorite methods, but you can easily secure the wires 100% better than pedalma did.

Unless looks are that important to you. I wouldn't worry about how it looks.
Personally I could give a rat's turd what my bike looks like, as long as it doesn't cause the bike to malfunction. I build what I want as far as performance goes and damn the ascetics. Unless I'm trying to make money off the end result.

In fact there are a lot of ppl who purposefully make their expensive bikes look like junk, just to deter thieves.
I learned long ago, do what you like and take everyone else's opinion with a grain of salt, even this one !

 

[JES2020]

That guy is so proud of his bike! He just wanted a derailleur adjustment. It has four different colors of zip ties, everywhere.

No, not possible ! Four different colors ? Impossible !

 

[CodyDog]

out of curiosity, why would you say that the Surface brand is not MTB worthy? My trek marlin 6 2020 is pretty much the same bike component wise

I guess its how you define mountain biking. I have owned both a Rocky Mountain Altitude and most recently a Specialized Turbo Levo Comp have also owned cheaper MTB's and the cheaper ones consistently broke. I ended up replacing forks, detailers, wheels, etc.

I'm not a fan of hub drive motors for mountain biking. Your better bikes will be mid-drives. The SR SUNTOUR XCM 32, 29ER suspension fork offers on the Surface is a mechanical spring fork and will not hold up to a lot of abuse. Minor consideration, the steer post is straight 1-1/8″ vs. tapered which limits the options for upgrading the suspension fork. A hardtail frame is going to take much more abuse than an FS so I would avoid most Chinese manufactured frames. I would trust your Trek frame over the Surface frame any day.

Again, it comes down to what type of mountain biking will you be doing. I think a lot of cost friendly e-bikes are marketed as mountain bikes which is misleading to the consumer.

 

[rz514]

I guess its how you define mountain biking. I have owned both a Rocky Mountain Altitude and most recently a Specialized Turbo Levo Comp have also owned cheaper MTB's and the cheaper ones consistently broke. I ended up replacing forks, detailers, wheels, etc.

I'm not a fan of hub drive motors for mountain biking. Your better bikes will be mid-drives. The SR SUNTOUR XCM 32, 29ER suspension fork offers on the Surface is a mechanical spring fork and will not hold up to a lot of abuse. Minor consideration, the steer post is straight 1-1/8″ vs. tapered which limits the options for upgrading the suspension fork. A hardtail frame is going to take much more abuse than an FS so I would avoid most Chinese manufactured frames. I would trust your Trek frame over the Surface frame any day.

Again, it comes down to what type of mountain biking will you be doing. I think a lot of cost friendly e-bikes are marketed as mountain bikes which is misleading to the consumer.

tbh i'll do mostly XC trails. No downhill\jumps.

 

[PedalUma]

tbh i'll do mostly XC trails. No downhill\jumps.

Then you are fine with an air fork and a hardtail with wider, low pressure tires. Check Craigslist for a good used one to convert. I will run a three speed coaster brake bike with a chromoly fork on "mountain" trails. The lumps are just ridden off the saddle. It is fun to sip coffee while passing guys in spandex on a mountain climb.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I guess its how you define mountain biking. I have owned both a Rocky Mountain Altitude and most recently a Specialized Turbo Levo Comp have also owned cheaper MTB's and the cheaper ones consistently broke. I ended up replacing forks, detailers, wheels, etc.

I'm not a fan of hub drive motors for mountain biking. Your better bikes will be mid-drives. The SR SUNTOUR XCM 32, 29ER suspension fork offers on the Surface is a mechanical spring fork and will not hold up to a lot of abuse. Minor consideration, the steer post is straight 1-1/8″ vs. tapered which limits the options for upgrading the suspension fork. A hardtail frame is going to take much more abuse than an FS so I would avoid most Chinese manufactured frames. I would trust your Trek frame over the Surface frame any day.

Again, it comes down to what type of mountain biking will you be doing. I think a lot of cost friendly e-bikes are marketed as mountain bikes which is misleading to the consumer.

Also, the OP should consider who would service his e-bike, especially on the electrical side.
He tried a Surface 604. Why didn't he try a real e-MTB (a hardtail would be fine) to understand the difference?

 

[AHicks]

tbh i'll do mostly XC trails. No downhill\jumps.

It sounds like you're beginning to understand that e-mtb means different things to different riders. Understand some of these mountain bike guys are riding in extreme conditions most would never even give a second look.

Part of their demands will require a bike that's able to climb a wall for instance. That means a mid drive will be required, so they can use the gears built in to the drive train (can you say "granny gear"?). There's little getting around that fact. They're also picky about tire/rim sizes, weight, forks, etc, etc, etc. Bottom line, a good e-mtb is a pretty specialized bike.

The question is, will your riding require something that specialized, or would something that might be better described as a "hybrid" suit you better? I'm a pretty big guy that's used to a LOT of power on tap as it takes quite a bit of power to get this fat butt up some of the hills I need to climb in the area I ride frequently. "Marginal" power is something I'd rather not have to deal with. 1000w geared hubs will work for me, but for hills, I prefer even more power. Mid drive for sure, the bike I have is Bafang Ultra powered, but something like a BBSHD would work just as well (same power as the Ultra, minus torque sensing). When it comes to tires, I don't spend enough time "off road" to justify listening to a knobby style tread on pavement at 12-15mph. I find that noise irritating. Thoughts here all over the ball park, but after trying many of the options, I've found the 27.5" Schwalbe tires in the 2.4 - 2.8 range to be the best compromise for MY riding.

Last thought, a good e-mtb being as specialized as they are, maybe keep something like that in mind for a 2nd or 3rd bike. Something to consider when you get more experience. You WILL be a much more educated buyer/builder at that point. I'll guarantee you that..... -Al

 

[tomjasz]

Also, the OP should consider who would service his e-bike, especially on the electrical side.
He tried a Surface 604. Why didn't he try a real e-MTB (a hardtail would be fine) to understand the difference?

STFU. I’ve seen a dozen builds that make your bikes look and ride like yesterdays bodge! Some of us have all the gear to maintain our own bikes. And outperform anything you peddle.

 

[rz514]

Seriously if you're going to install internal cable and wires, for the amount of work you have to do, you might as well buy a pre-made bike.
Unless you like working for something like $25 an hour.
Understand literally everyone has their favorite methods, but you can easily secure the wires 100% better than pedalma did.

Unless looks are that important to you. I wouldn't worry about how it looks.
Personally I could give a rat's turd what my bike looks like, as long as it doesn't cause the bike to malfunction. I build what I want as far as performance goes and damn the ascetics. Unless I'm trying to make money off the end result.

In fact there are a lot of ppl who purposefully make their expensive bikes look like junk, just to deter thieves.
I learned long ago, do what you like and take everyone else's opinion with a grain of salt, even this one !

yeah its not for the looks but just making sure nothing will get caught up while doing XC trails

It sounds like you're beginning to understand that e-mtb means different things to different riders. Understand some of these mountain bike guys are riding in extreme conditions most would never even give a second look.

Part of their demands will require a bike that's able to climb a wall for instance. That means a mid drive will be required, so they can use the gears built in to the drive train (can you say "granny gear"?). There's little getting around that fact. They're also picky about tire/rim sizes, weight, forks, etc, etc, etc. Bottom line, a good e-mtb is a pretty specialized bike.

The question is, will your riding require something that specialized, or would something that might be better described as a "hybrid" suit you better? I'm a pretty big guy that's used to a LOT of power on tap as it takes quite a bit of power to get this fat butt up some of the hills I need to climb in the area I ride frequently. "Marginal" power is something I'd rather not have to deal with. 1000w geared hubs will work for me, but for hills, I prefer even more power. Mid drive for sure, the bike I have is Bafang Ultra powered, but something like a BBSHD would work just as well (same power as the Ultra, minus torque sensing). When it comes to tires, I don't spend enough time "off road" to justify listening to a knobby style tread on pavement at 12-15mph. I find that noise irritating. Thoughts here all over the ball park, but after trying many of the options, I've found the 27.5" Schwalbe tires in the 2.4 - 2.8 range to be the best compromise for MY riding.

Last thought, a good e-mtb being as specialized as they are, maybe keep something like that in mind for a 2nd or 3rd bike. Something to consider when you get more experience. You WILL be a much more educated buyer/builder at that point. I'll guarantee you that..... -Al

thanks for the advice, and yeah i realize now that me saying "mtb" is not the same as everyone else here that are die hardcore mtb riders. I'm more of a easy XC guy lol!
That being said, im looking at mid drive kits and im wondering something, once you add the kit, does it "push the pedals a bit out of the frame"? I am trying to measure the battery size on the frame and it seems like the pedals would be touching - unless when the kit is installed this changes things

 

[rz514]

Also, the OP should consider who would service his e-bike, especially on the electrical side.
He tried a Surface 604. Why didn't he try a real e-MTB (a hardtail would be fine) to understand the difference?

I can now say that i am not looking for a "real MTB" but more a hard tail for XC trails... my bad. Something that i can do road and XC trails with.
I am leaning towards bafang mid drive kits on my marlin 6 and keeping rest of $ to upgrade components -- but i wonder if the motors add more space for pedals and battery as im thinking pedals would hit the battery that sticks out on the sides

 

[tomjasz]

marlin 6 BBSHD
Google for insights. I always suggested our customers do this. If there are builds we can learn if there are any build issues.

 

[rz514]

marlin 6 BBSHD
Google for insights. I always suggested our customers do this. If there are builds we can learn if there are any build issues.

oh yeah i've been googling for a month before i started posting here bwhahaa and i shall continue! am slowly getting to the point of making clear decisions -- quick question if you can help, something i cant seem to find an answer to -- when installing a mid drive kit bafang, does the installation give you more space around where the pedals are? like pushing the pedals out a bit more outside? some of these batteries are 6" wide and it seems like it would hit the pedals unless the conversion changes the dimensions there

 

[tomjasz]

oh yeah i've been googling for a month before i started posting here bwhahaa and i shall continue! am slowly getting to the point of making clear decisions -- quick question if you can help, something i cant seem to find an answer to -- when installing a mid drive kit bafang, does the installation give you more space around where the pedals are? like pushing the pedals out a bit more outside? some of these batteries are 6" wide and it seems like it would hit the pedals unless the conversion changes the dimensions there

I’m a bit confused. Battery position shouldn’t interfere. What did other builders run into? Reention Polly cases are 3.74 inches wide. Hailong aka shark cases are about the same.