I am assuming the answer is yes installing the mid drive motor gives you more clearance space as i look at picture but I'd like to make sure of this. I inserted a red arrow to show the clearance space i'm talking about - seems like mid drive motor adds a few more inches of clearance from battery to pedals
Should I convert my mtb or buy a pre-made one?
- Thread starter rz514
- Start date
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
I don't peddle e-bikes. You probably do.
It's "pedal".
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Thank you so much for that mindless contribution.
I try to stay out of these discussions because I have zero knowledge of xc, but some statements need a visual
Even I struggle to understand how someone can buy a crazy expensive emtb and spend several thousand $ replacing everything except the frame....but the bottom line is....pretty specialized
yeah i made a mistake, i should have written hardtail XC bike.. I def am not looking to do downhill and hard trails... beginner\intermediate XC is more like it so i don't think a back suspension is needed -- and also my usage will be pavement\gravel 60% and light xc trails 40%
perhaps this is true? I am not sure anymore with all this research lol. The kind of "mountain trails" i would do would be classified as green\blue here beginner\intermediate.. I don't usually do crazy downhill, jumps and stuff like that.. But i also am not looking for a purely trail bike as i'll be doing pavement\gravel roads as well, perhaps even a bit more like road 60/40 trails - i currently have a trek marlin 6 2020 hard tail that i've been using for road\trails and it's totally fine for me and my level of skill - component wise. I read mid drive is a bit more maintenance than rear hub but i've also read that mid drive is the way to go, in general, and particularly for trails
yes i would say this is the kind of trail \ track i would do... here they are rated green\blue (beginner\intermediate) trails and that is what i usually stick to... no jumps or crazy downhill but hills like in that pic are pretty common in beginner trails
To be honest, it's not my area of knowledge.
Nothing beats the riding experience of a top quality mid drive, but I now have both a giant and specialized mid drive that are out of warranty, both had their motors replaced just before warranty ran out so I'm well aware that even the mainstream manufacturers haven't sorted out mid drive technology yet. Nb these bikes have been ridden regularly under extreme conditions - I prefer black to blue and ride at least twice a week, trying to keep up with teenage kids.
My wife is a gentle cyclist, she wanders along rail trails / easy mtb trails on her step through regular bike. IF she wanted some assistance, I'd be fitting a hub drive to her bike because she doesn't need to think about unsprung weight, balance in the air or extreme climbing ability. It's just not worth sinking several thousand $ worth of electrics and mechanics on a bike that simply wanders through the scenery. She can get off and push up steeper hills ( which she would do anyway because she isn't interested in technical riding)
If that's what you call a blue / green, then I change my mind - buy the best top end mid drive you can find!
But for perspective, the bike is an xl giant reign enduro bike ( huge) , the rider is 6'3" tall
Just to make sure I understand your post and picture.. This trail in picture, with rocks like this everywhere, no problem on my trek marlin 6.. Are you saying that if I convert it to a mid drive bafang kit, it's not a good idea? If so, care to explain? Not sure why stock bike can do it but not when it's modded with bafang? .. I don't go down like a maniac obviously but I've never had issues with small/big rocks, vines and all that.. Going up or down
Honestly, if you can ride tracks like that on a hardtail you are good enough to want a big brand mid drive - you simply can't get the subtlety / normal bike feel from either a mid drive bafang bolt on kit or a hub drive. That's not meant as a criticism of those kits , but if you can ride that on a hardtail you are a better rider than 99% of the population.
Attachments
Surly
Active Member
- Region
- Other
The rider is the resident 'expert' stefan pushing his 'ultimate' emtb down a moderate track............
He despises Bafang, fat tires and anything related and also if he hasn't previously bought it during his mid life crisis.
The antidote to being a stefan (walk of shame) is bafang and surly.
Hahhaa I notice he's quite forward in the pic so perhaps intermédiaires lol but in reality my trek marlin 6, road and light xc trails, does well enough for my skill level.. I'm not doing jumps or doing crazy downhill that requires using a ski lift and all that... Going down hills at moderate /fast speed with rocks, vines and all that the bike stock doesn't have issues and yeah it's somewhat bumpy but I'm fine with that lol.. From My research I just read that everyone says go mid drive due to "MTB" usage but perhaps that is not the definition I had in mind (xc trails) and perhaps it's not the route I should go? If money here is the only argument, and let's say mid drive is still a better choice then I'd just go for that
This is where it gets really hard to be clear on someone elses desire / needs. A spectacular rider can ride anything well - we have a local who used to be a national champion motorbike racer but seems to enjoy riding the most inappropriate machinery through the most difficult trails possible...
Take a look at the thread surly posted recently on the ews - you'll see a blog from an experienced regular mtb rider tackling his first ebike race. There's an uphill section where he is clearly struggling with the power delivery - and that's on a shimano ep8 which is one of the more natural feeling motors. I've only ridden a couple of befangs but they were definitely NOT natural feeling - delays between power on / off made it feel like Iwas riding with sponges inside my shoes , so it was too difficult for ME to ride technical trails on them ( and tge owners were crashing frequently) Those bikes were perfectly good for wandering along gentle trails, or even steep 4x4 tracks - but once we were facing routes that are difficult to walk thise bikes were garder to ride than a regular unpowered mtb.
Is there any way you can get a ride on some bikes - eg hire / beg / borrow?
You bring some good points. I consider myself very amateur / beginner when it comes to biking in general, but I also like to purchase something that will "keep me going for a long time" rather than upgrade a year later or whatever the case might be, that's why I'm researching so much lol
The only ebike I tried since I started doing my research is the Shred and Quad from surface 604, hard tails front suspension and rear hub drive. But I was only able to try it around the shop and not in a trail.. I'll try to look for some that I can rent and go to trail but I'm not sure we have this option available where I live.
However at the shop there was this other random cruiser bike that was mid drive so I tried it, of course it has nothing to do with these other bikes but I was curious. Mid drive seemed more natural like it was integrated into the power I put with my legs but to be honest the shred and Quad also felt great, apparently this company boasts about their rear hub drives feeling like mid drives from what I read.
The shred and Quad, component wise are pretty similar to the level of the trek Marlin 6..so that's why I've been thinking going the DIY way in order to save $ and put that money into upgraded parts and better électrique system (more power and mileage)
Oh and am not sure how this translates In real world but my marlin has 2.2" tires and all these ebikes seem to have closer to 2.8".. I am not sure what this really changes..
Technically I'd be okay ish doing this now that I see whole picture but my fitness level would leave me huffing and puffing and possibly putting a foot down lol but I wouldn't hesitate to try and do it! Haha but that's where the électric part would help
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
This is way beyond my experience level, but it sounds like you're trying to buy the proverbial "second bike first". My experience has been that rarely works out well. I think that before you lay out big bucks for a high end bike, you should walk before you run. Spend a season on something that will get you by, THEN start a list of desirable traits the NEXT bike will have. If your first bike is a smart buy, made with resale in mind, it shouldn't be that expensive when considering what it will bring when sold - IF - it's not handed off to a family member.
Just a couple of thoughts regarding some of your questions/points. First, riding a geared hub bike is undeniably brain dead simple. 2 issues with them come to mind here for the stuff you're discussing. First, I think the biggest issue is the controllers that come on bikes like that. They're generally junk for what you are considering. They have none of the necessary finesse required here. You could dodge that bullet, possibly, with an aftermarket KT controller, but you would still be faced with a 2nd issue - marginal power. This point especially true if you're a bigger rider.
Regarding the Bafang mid drives, those with UART type interfaces (BBS02, BBSHD, and earlier Ultra's) those are completely adjustable when it comes to things like stop and start delays, spool up times, throttle sensitivity, and on and on. Point being, as they are delivered, it would be no surprise if they felt clumsy in technical stuff. For those with the patience to figure out what's going on, pretty sure there IS the potential to dial them in to something worth considering for this kind of play. I would not totally discount them. One thing for sure, especially when talking the bigger BBSHD and the ULTRA, you will never be lacking for power, and they are built like a brick out house.......
Regarding tires, from what I have seen there's nothing wrong with the 2.2" you're used to, but popular at the moment are the "mid" size tires in the 2.4"-2.8" or maybe even 3". I run them on my bikes as they are awesome from a rolling resistance standpoint, sturdy from a flat prevention standpoint, and they don't need a lot of air pressure so they ride great!
Just a couple of thoughts regarding some of your questions/points. First, riding a geared hub bike is undeniably brain dead simple. 2 issues with them come to mind here for the stuff you're discussing. First, I think the biggest issue is the controllers that come on bikes like that. They're generally junk for what you are considering. They have none of the necessary finesse required here. You could dodge that bullet, possibly, with an aftermarket KT controller, but you would still be faced with a 2nd issue - marginal power. This point especially true if you're a bigger rider.
Regarding the Bafang mid drives, those with UART type interfaces (BBS02, BBSHD, and earlier Ultra's) those are completely adjustable when it comes to things like stop and start delays, spool up times, throttle sensitivity, and on and on. Point being, as they are delivered, it would be no surprise if they felt clumsy in technical stuff. For those with the patience to figure out what's going on, pretty sure there IS the potential to dial them in to something worth considering for this kind of play. I would not totally discount them. One thing for sure, especially when talking the bigger BBSHD and the ULTRA, you will never be lacking for power, and they are built like a brick out house.......
Regarding tires, from what I have seen there's nothing wrong with the 2.2" you're used to, but popular at the moment are the "mid" size tires in the 2.4"-2.8" or maybe even 3". I run them on my bikes as they are awesome from a rolling resistance standpoint, sturdy from a flat prevention standpoint, and they don't need a lot of air pressure so they ride great!
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
Yes, My days of defending and criticizing posts are over. The relentless spewing of bad information on products he simply has only opinions about just proves to builders he has issues with sorting s*it from Shinola.
Doing support I rarely got this sort, but when I did the biggest offenders typically had VERY limited experience. Like him. But long on a selective reading of reviews. It got tiresome. I'm gonna plonk again.
Similar threads
