ShareRoller - Quick and Dirty Electric Bikes

[PowerMe]

Personally I'm done with crowdfunding. The Noke ULock was the last thing I funded and fortunately I got my money back when they blew through their first big deadline in 2015. I said, "never again," and I meant it.

 

[Lin B]

Personally I'm done with crowdfunding. The Noke ULock was the last thing I funded and fortunately I got my money back when they blew through their first big deadline in 2015. I said, "never again," and I meant it.

It is a very risky thing. I personally figure it's like a trip to Vegas without the room fees, lol. Not something I do with funds I need for real life expenses. Some folks take big vacations, some buy fancy tv/audio systems...I will sometimes crowdfund a bike-related item. Of the last 3 I funded, one refunded 70% of my money before they blew up, one actually delivered a pretty decent product, and one I'm waiting for. Not for the faint of heart. Ironic that those who most need the discounted prices available through crowdfunding are those least able to take any loss. That's capitalism, I guess...

 

[Lares1090b]

Well, over one month since the 10 day countdown and slightly over two weeks since "`1 week'. I also noticed this, when you view the original kickstarter campaign link.

ShareRoller: First Portable Motor for Share Bikes and More is the subject of an intellectual property dispute and is currently unavailable.

If this is true, it's interesting that it never made the updates. Perhaps it also better explains the decision to dramatically redesign the product that everyone bought.

 

[Lin B]

Well, over one month since the 10 day countdown and slightly over two weeks since "`1 week'. I also noticed this, when you view the original kickstarter campaign link.



If this is true, it's interesting that it never made the updates. Perhaps it also better explains the decision to dramatically redesign the product that everyone bought.

I don't remember the exact details but I think Jeff at one point said it was about some other product being used in his materials without that brand's permission. I don't think it was about his actual hardware. My recollection is perhaps he used a share bike which had a brand on it to show the share bike mounting, but hadn't collected the proper clearance for it.

 

[Allie Miller]

Jeff explained, as I recall, that the "intellectual property" in question was pictures of products. Jeff said that he felt the pictures came under the copyright exception of "fair use," but Kickstarter still blocked Shareroller. Jeff, as I recall, said that is why he switched from Kickstarter to Indiegogo. Again, this is all from what Jeff says happened. Still, the "intellectual property dispute" you mention, Lares1090b, has nothing to do with patents on anything related to the Shareroller device.

It is easy to send a takedown notice on many web sites; it doesn't mean that the person being "accused" is wrong. I have a video on YouTube that I was meticulous about in terms of copyright. The music and pictures I put together were both in the clear, but companies regularly send automated takedown notices to YouTube which then has to ask me to defend the copyright status. I always present the same facts, and my video always remains available. (Videos were from NASA--all copyright free--and the music was used under the specific Creative Commons copyright under which the musician posted it. I am not "monetizing" that video.) The point is, it is very easy on many web sites to put in a copyright challenge against posted content, and then some web sites are more inclined to side with the accuser. A less deep-pocketed company like Kickstarter probably errs on the side of the accuser because that protects Kickstarter the cheapest and easiest way.

 

[Allie Miller]

Zoom Stryder Electric Scooter -- https://www.ridezoom.co/ [Please note that is ".co" not ".com" in the URL.]

I would go out and buy the Zoom Stryder today as a commuter vehicle, but it can only be ordered from Singapore as far as I can tell. (How good can the post-purchase support be if everything is half a world away?) The Zoom Stryder has the power I need for the hills I have in my commute, and the price is $800, which meets my "under $1,000" threshold for this desire. Thankfully, as competition has increased markedly in the electric bike and electric scooter market, prices have come down quickly. I can't wait to see what the retail price/MSRP will be for the Shareroller.

 

[Nirmala]

Another update from
Shareroller:


Hello ShareRoller Indiegogo backer:


At _long_ last, we have finally received our Production Battery Pack samples (only a solid month behind what we expected when we last wrote). But rather than vent about how behind schedule these are, let's instead take a moment to appreciate how glorious they look!

The Packs look even better in person, and the Multi-Function Handle and Multi-Mount System are incredibly robust in injection molded plastic and extruded aluminum!

Since the Packs samples cost us another month of delay, we're going to race to complete our functionality testing within one week, and then we will push our supplier to manufacture the full production batch with the utmost urgency as well as complete the UN38.3 testing in parallel. If everything goes as planned we will have Battery Packs to ship by the very beginning of August.

We will also be completing final FCC testing of all three of our wireless devices (the Motor Module, Throttle, and PAS) over the next two weeks, so our 'fully legal' production ShareRollers should be ready to go by then as well.

Lots to do over this month, but thankfully the end is in sight. We'll also be opening up Pre-Orders to new customers as soon as we have time for a proper photo-shoot with the newly polished ShareRollers, so stay tuned for that. And I promise all of you will be very happy with the discounted pricing you received by being longstanding Indiegogo Backers!

Thank you again for your patience and support.



Jeff Guida & The ShareRoller Team

 

[Lin B]

The case looks very nice, quite elegant actually. Robust retractable cable, too. So I'm guessing we are going to get them in August sometime. Fall riding weather is pretty good most places so hopefully everyone will still have time to get some rides in on it. As I said earlier, time to get excited is when we get the emails about accessories and shipping addresses. A video of the new unit in use would be a nice teaser until then....I'm curious how loud it is and how well Jeff managed to dampen that RC whine.
OMG I totally forgot about this crowdfunded item I backed...I got my money out after 6 months but now it's going on FOUR years! https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/patchnride-bicycle-flat-tire-repair-love/x/8678064#/comments Too bad, cuz it was actually a brilliant idea but obviously not one that worked.

 

[dermbrian]

I'm resigned to save up to buy one in the spring of 2019, if they actually get released this summer/fall.

That purchcase assumes one thing that the original design had that I am not certain is still true in what will ship:

#1 - The drive and battery must be quickly removeable/quickly mountable. As in "I'm at the grocery store and I want to take the drive and battery in with me to avoid theft and put it back on the bike after I buy my candy bar." As in "I'm at work for a 12 hour shift and I want to take the drive and battery in with me to place it safely in my locker to avoid theft and put it back on the bike for the ride home."

There have been a tremendous number of cool engineering feats accomplished per the updates. But in reality, how likely is #1 as good as in the original briefcase-style product? Awaiting early reports this year.

Also, price? If the early backers are going to be "very happy with the discounted pricing", then is the production price super high in comparison to the original quoted production prices?

Time will tell. I hope.

Brian

 

[Lin B]

I'm resigned to save up to buy one in the spring of 2019, if they actually get released this summer/fall.

That purchcase assumes one thing that the original design had that I am not certain is still true in what will ship:

#1 - The drive and battery must be quickly removeable/quickly mountable. As in "I'm at the grocery store and I want to take the drive and battery in with me to avoid theft and put it back on the bike after I buy my candy bar." As in "I'm at work for a 12 hour shift and I want to take the drive and battery in with me to place it safely in my locker to avoid theft and put it back on the bike for the ride home."

There have been a tremendous number of cool engineering feats accomplished per the updates. But in reality, how likely is #1 as good as in the original briefcase-style product? Awaiting early reports this year.

Also, price? If the early backers are going to be "very happy with the discounted pricing", then is the production price super high in comparison to the original quoted production prices?

Time will tell. I hope.

Brian

I think it will meet your #1 criteria - battery and motor snap off quickly and attached together to carry. As to price....yes, I think your quoted phrase might mean final retail is gonna be up there. Seems like there are always backers on crowdfunded items that end up realizing it's not what they wanted or needed, so you might be able to pick one up "used" if you are lucky from someone who decides to go in another direction. Seems like there's also going to be a discount of some kind for "pre ordering" which I guess is the reward for taking on some risk before the item is actually released in the wild. It would be awesome if Jeff could chime in with some details on his pricing strategy before the pre-order goes live, so folks can think about what they want to do.

 

[Lares1090b]

Nice to see some progress. The packs do look nice.

I would hope (for the ultimate success of the product) that the eventual retail price is very comparable to the price paid by backers of the IGG campaign or even lower. The space has matured a lot since Jeff started this project. Battery tech has improved and become less costly and other portable options have matured as well (eg. electric skateboards, scooters, etc). In my opinion this needs to cost about $500 to $600 at the most. Otherwise you're competing with options that include, not only the motor, but the platform it's attached to.

 

[Allie Miller]

dermbrian beat me to the part that attracted my attention: And I promise all of you will be very happy with the discounted pricing you received by being longstanding Indiegogo Backers!

Very happy? If that means what it sounds like, the retail price of the Shareroller will be too rich for me. I suspect I will not be buying a Shareroller any time soon. Unfortunately for Shareroller, competition increased rapidly and prices decreased rapidly for decent alternatives to their Lexus.

Perhaps Shareroller prices will follow the path of television prices when big, new features have arrived over the last twenty years: start out high, drop continuously, reach commodity pricing. Alternatively, Shareroller could decide that margins are more important than revenue, and they could stay a luxury brand making large margins on small volume. One problem with that idea? Patents run out, and near alternatives spring up anyway. I wonder if there is a long term market for the Lexus of friction-style e-bike/e-scooter add-ons? While most people might want something cheap that works, that might leave millions who are willing to pay more for more features, better performance, and high-end cachet. (See the market for wristwatches, for example.) "I would never be seen using a Rubbee! I would only use a Shareroller. Mmmmm, Shareroller. So classy."

[Edit: If the reviews and reliability look good, I would buy a Shareroller today for $500 or $600, the price range Lares1090b mentions above. Soon enough, true commodity-level priced e-bikes and e-scooters will arrive, and I will buy the one of those that has the best price/performance/reliability combination. I will buy the Honda of e-bikes/e-scooters.]

 

[Lin B]

Nice to see some progress. The packs do look nice.

I would hope (for the ultimate success of the product) that the eventual retail price is very comparable to the price paid by backers of the IGG campaign or even lower. The space has matured a lot since Jeff started this project. Battery tech has improved and become less costly and other portable options have matured as well (eg. electric skateboards, scooters, etc). In my opinion this needs to cost about $500 to $600 at the most. Otherwise you're competing with options that include, not only the motor, but the platform it's attached to.

I don't think that price point is going to fly - more likely twice that. I don't see this competing with full bikes, that's not who it is marketed to. It's aimed at folks with a bike they love that they want to motorize. And any ebike in the $5-600 range is gonna be junk, honestly. It might take a hit with scooter folks, but it has the advantage of also going on their bikes, so still quite differently and much more useable; plus scooter rentals are everywhere now so that market is done. The other friction drives I've seen, ranging in price from $300-700, are all basic on/off without any of the sophistication of the SR. And a decent e-bike battery costs around $500 anyway.
Quality still can demand a high price in this field - look at VanMoof for example. So if SR lives up to the hype, I believe it can and will sell for a thousand bucks. For a thousand bucks plus mounts, you can turn your entire bike stable into e-bikes! That's a very reasonable price to turn a daily commuter, weekend racer, and mountain bike all into electric bikes in less than 30 seconds. No other system I'm aware of can do that at any reasonable price. It may not be the solution for folks with just one bike, that's all.

 

[pocomo]

I would be OK with a retail price in the $1200 range, which would be very competitive with high quality kit conversions. $2k would be a tough pill to swallow.

 

[Lares1090b]

I still think that at the price range of $1200 (or more), this will be a very niche product. The people who are reading this forum are versed in the nuances of Jeff's friction drive system vs cheaper options. If he keeps this price point, his business model relies on keen, highly researched buyers who have spent considerable time figuring out what differentiates Shareroller when a plethora of other personal transport options have emerged.

In addition, putting this on high end bikes is one usage case. I think many are the total opposite, like myself. I want a removable motor that I can attach to a bargain commuter bike so that I don't give a crap if the bike gets stolen and, if it does, I have the expensive motor with me. Once you electrify the bike, I'm far less concerned about the efficiency increases I get with a better bike since I'm hardly pedaling. I won't pay $1200 for this when I can get an electric skateboard or scooter for significantly less that, not only solves the portability problem (I can carry both up to my office), but can also be ordered through established companies that have reliability track records.

 

[Lin B]

I still think that at the price range of $1200 (or more), this will be a very niche product. The people who are reading this forum are versed in the nuances of Jeff's friction drive system vs cheaper options. If he keeps this price point, his business model relies on keen, highly researched buyers who have spent considerable time figuring out what differentiates Shareroller when a plethora of other personal transport options have emerged.

In addition, putting this on high end bikes is one usage case. I think many are the total opposite, like myself. I want a removable motor that I can attach to a bargain commuter bike so that I don't give a crap if the bike gets stolen and, if it does, I have the expensive motor with me. Once you electrify the bike, I'm far less concerned about the efficiency increases I get with a better bike since I'm hardly pedaling. I won't pay $1200 for this when I can get an electric skateboard or scooter for significantly less that, not only solves the portability problem (I can carry both up to my office), but can also be ordered through established companies that have reliability track records.

Sounds like for your needs a simple on/off version would work fine....there have been some on Kickstarter and there is also the Outrunner (http://pe-drives.com/outrunner/). Price is more appropriate for that beater/single bike use. I see Jeff's drive as being for people who want to motorize multiple devices (several bikes and/or scooters) which brings the individual price per conveyance down even if it sells for $1200+. I've two bikes I'd like to use it on (so $600 each) and I have the fewest bikes of any cyclists I know. Use it on 3 bikes and it is a very reasonable $400 each. It's not competitive for folks who would otherwise be happy with just a nice electric scooter; you're right that you can buy one of those for much less (or just use a "share"). It doesn't make financial sense unless you have more than one device you want to motorize (or you just want the "best" regardless of cost). I guess the best comparison I can make is comparing a Brompton to a Dahon folding bike. People clearly will pay to have something built with quality; Brompton bikes sell very well. Now if someone develops a mid-drive that is easily removed in less than 30 seconds......=)

 

[Allie Miller]

This page--(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)--still has the ALL-NEW SHAREROLLER SRV4 LAUNCH COUNTDOWN, and the countdown still says "~1 WEEK" meaning "approximately one week." Now for some thoughts on "approximate."

I think most people if told something was "approximately one week" away would assume the approximation is on the number of days in a week and would therefore expect the upcoming event to be anywhere from five days to 9 days away. Perhaps, though, the approximation is on the number of weeks, so the event could be anywhere from zero to three weeks away. On the other hand, a really, really bad approximation of one week could be one year or one decade or one century. I guess we won't know what approximate means until the LAUNCH gets here.

 

[J.R.]

View attachment 23799


This page--(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)--still has the ALL-NEW SHAREROLLER SRV4 LAUNCH COUNTDOWN, and the countdown still says "~1 WEEK" meaning "approximately one week." Now for some thoughts on "approximate."

I think most people if told something was "approximately one week" away would assume the approximation is on the number of days in a week and would therefore expect the upcoming event to be anywhere from five days to 9 days away. Perhaps, though, the approximation is on the number of weeks, so the event could be anywhere from zero to three weeks away. On the other hand, a really, really bad approximation of one week could be one year or one decade or one century. I guess we won't know what approximate means until the LAUNCH gets here.

It's been a long time coming for sure. You have to give Jeff some credit for not taking "pre-orders" while trying to get the product to backers of the crowdfunding campaign. Many would try to keep the cash flowing in, whether there's a product or not. This man is not getting rich doing this. I wonder how he's making a living.

I've seen a few good crowdfunded products make it to the mainstream market. The keyword is few. I don't think it's a good market strategy. Often it does damage to the brand. If it's truly a better mousetrap, seeking out venture capitalists is better for both developers and customers.

 

[Allie Miller]

You have to give Jeff some credit for not taking "pre-orders" while trying to get the product to backers of the crowdfunding campaign.

Perhaps, but the thrust of my post (as usual, I admit) is that a promise or declaration or estimate of a time-frame is put out by Jeff and then it doesn't come true. I feel compelled to point those examples out when I see them. The way to stop me? Meet your self-declared estimates or stop making estimates. What would that leave? "Here is where we are.... Here is what comes next...."

Given Jeff's track record, there is no need for him to estimate times ever again. Just wait until the thing is done, then advertise it. "We received all necessary parts today" or "We assembled over 50 complete units today" or "We shipped 50 units today" are all good examples.

 

[Lares1090b]

It's been a long time coming for sure. You have to give Jeff some credit for not taking "pre-orders" while trying to get the product to backers of the crowdfunding campaign. Many would try to keep the cash flowing in, whether there's a product or not. This man is not getting rich doing this. I wonder how he's making a living.

I've seen a few good crowdfunded products make it to the mainstream market. The keyword is few. I don't think it's a good market strategy. Often it does damage to the brand. If it's truly a better mousetrap, seeking out venture capitalists is better for both developers and customers.

The reason he's not opening pre-orders is that when you're actually selling a specified product that is paid with a credit card, the customer can do a charge back when that product isn't delivered. In the case of crowdfunding, you're just supporting the initiative and acknowledging that you may never see your "perk".

Also, Jeff isn't surviving off the crowdfunding money. That was gone a long time ago. He's likely had additional funding rounds with venture capatilists, his friends, his family, random strangers, etc.... or he's gone back to work in finance, which would explain the slow pace of this all. I'm betting five bucks actually that Shareroller's facilities are Jeff's apartment, which if I'm right, is actually kind of impressive when you think about it.