Reducing Maintenance $$$ - longer lasting chains & emtb tires?

[gorse]

Long time biker here - I don't bother with the whole chain rotating nonsense, wear the whole lot out together and replace it. Nothing worse than putting a new chain on a partly worn cassette only to have engagement issues, (despite diligantly observing chain wear according to the dinky chain wear indicator tool).
The key is finding the right cassette/chain at a reasonable price and learning to do the swapout yourself. My ebike has 3000km on the first chain/cassette and it will probably last another 1000-2000km.

NB/ I can make a new chain slip on a new cassette in the small cogs on a normal bike, and it's very easy on an ebike with a motor, so you have to avoid starting off in a high gear or hammering up hills in the wee cogs, there's not enough chain wrap to sustain the load.

 

[indianajo]

I've got ~5000 miles on my 8 speed chain & cassette, and wonder, WTH? Just because my bike has a hub motor on it my chain wear is 10x everybody else's? I ride unpowered 90% of the time! I lube the chain & takeup wheels every 2 weeks with sus 32 (5W) hydraulic fluid (or type F transmission fluid), and scrape the dirt deposits off the sprockets with a screwdriver about annually when I change the back tire or get grass stems wound up in the sprockets.

 

[byunbee]

My bike specific KMC e10 chains give me about 1200 miles before needing replacement. I did the math on The Dukes post and it looks like he put on around 2400 miles which is good service especially on a cheap chain. I'd buy another one at that if it was me! Ditto for the tires. Maybe go for a hybrid like the Schwalbe Hurricanes or Super Moto X if it's mostly paved miles.

Yes, if you ride mostly on paved roads you don't want to ride on knobby tires. The most popular are probably the Schwalbe Super Moto X.

 

[byunbee]

I've had my BH emtb for 7 months now. I definitely baby my bicycle. Mainly sidewalks and gentle fire roads, no crazy stuff. I travel at commuting speeds....I'm not racing or accelerating quicky.

I've been doing 20 miles per day, 4 days a week for 7 months, and my rear tire is almost bald. Can anyone suggest something that might last a little longer? I have a 27.5x2.8 Schwalbe Nobby Nic back there now that might last another month or two.

I've also been told that my chain is stretched out and should have been replaced months ago. Cheap chains on amazon are only $17, but is this the best route? $17 every 6 months? Or are there better chains that will last years on a mid drive ebike? Help!

If you truly want low maintenance, then you should look at a bike with Rohloff IGH and Carbon Gate Drive combo. You can ride years without worry about replacements. But they are much more expensive.

 

[indianajo]

Yes, if you ride mostly on paved roads you don't want to ride on knobby tires. .

I find knobby tires go the distance without flats. I'm going to replace the rear next week with knobs down to 3/32", where they can go flat due to road trash. About a year and a half and 2500 miles on a Kenda. I only got 700 miles out of the street tire (freedomcycle) that came with the bike before it went flat.

 

[tomjasz]

Cheap chains, 130 Link, and cheap Kenda tires. WHipperman high priced eBike chains won't run on narrow-wide chainrings.
All riding on city streets, no real flat hazards, and I pay attention when shifting to not load the chain tension.

 

[Johnny]

I am currently running a durability test on the Connex 11SE chain on my Delight Mountain. I am using Dumonde Tech D Lite Formula (the green stuff) I am doing a 150 mile cleaning interval. I just cleaned and lubricated it for the second time. Using a Park Tool CC-2 Chain Checker It measured just under .25 when new and is still measuring at 2.5. It looks promising at this point.

Alaskan I was wondering if you have an update on your test with Connex 11SE?

I have just fit this new chain and will report back on any improvement in durability if any in about 1000 miles or so.

Likewise Paul, it would be great to listen your experience , did you observe any noticeable improvement with KMC e10?


On a side note I am also using dumonde tech (both original and the new pro x lite) but my experiment went to trash since one of my cogs in the cassette was worn and it wore the chain prematurely.

 

[Alaskan]

The Whipperman Connex 11SE was disappointing and lasted no longer than any of the Shimano options. I then tried using a KMC 11 sl gold colored chain which is advertised as being both lightweight and durable. It has hollow pins and bars and indeed is significantly lighter. It also excels in durability. I now has almost 1,800 miles on it. I did a major tear down, clean up and reassembly on the drive train yesterday and the chain has at least another 500 of life left on it before it will get down to .5% wear, the maximum wear I allow so as to preserve the cassette.

The bike has the gen 2 Bosch CX motor which has been derestricted with a Bikespeed RS dongle which allows it to keep assisting as fast you I can pedal. I spend lots of time over 20 mph on roads, weigh 210 lbs and the bike weighs around 80+ lbs with both batteries, tools, water etc.

Here are the results of three chains I have tried in the past year on the Delight.

10/8/19 - 3411 miles Shimano dura ace

12/1/19 - 4087 miles new connex 11se

2/15/20 - 4888 miles new KMC 11 SL

8/21/20 - 6675 miles with at least another 500 miles life remaining.

 

[FlatSix911]

My road experience has shown that the lightweight high-end chains (Dura-Ace & SRAM Red) don't last.

Better to go with mid-range chains that are a bit heavier and built for durability over speed/weight.

 

[Johnny]

The Whipperman Connex 11SE was disappointing and lasted no longer than any of the Shimano options. I then tried using a KMC 11 sl gold colored chain which is advertised as being both lightweight and durable. It has hollow pins and bars and indeed is significantly lighter. It also excels in durability. I now has almost 1,800 miles on it. I did a major tear down, clean up and reassembly on the drive train yesterday and the chain has at least another 500 of life left on it before it will get down to .5% wear, the maximum wear I allow so as to preserve the cassette.

The bike has the gen 2 Bosch CX motor which has been derestricted with a Bikespeed RS dongle which allows it to keep assisting as fast you I can pedal. I spend lots of time over 20 mph on roads, weigh 210 lbs and the bike weighs around 80+ lbs with both batteries, tools, water etc.

Here are the results of three chains I have tried in the past year on the Delight.

10/8/19 - 3411 miles Shimano dura ace

12/1/19 - 4087 miles new connex 11se

2/15/20 - 4888 miles new KMC 11 SL

8/21/20 - 6675 miles with at least another 500 miles life remaining.

Thank you for sharing the data. A question, did you change your cassette/sprocket before installing KMC 11 SL ?

 

[Alaskan]

Thank you for sharing the data. A question, did you change your cassette/sprocket before installing KMC 11 SL ?

I did indeed. I installed a Sunrace CSMX8 11-46 tooth cassette which I find shifts more smoothly than the Shimano and also has its gears more evenly spaced.

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[Alaskan]

My road experience has shown that the lightweight high-end chains (Dura-Ace & SRAM Red) don't last.

Better to go with mid-range chains that are a bit heavier and built for durability over speed/weight.

The KMC 11SL (super light) combines both light weight and superior durability. They must be using a harder alloy but make it lighter by using hollow pins and bars to pare down weight without compromising durability.

 

[Johnny]

I did indeed. I installed a Sunrace CSMX8 11-46 tooth cassette which I find shifts more smoothly than the Shimano and also has its gears more evenly spaced.

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It makes sense.

When I was making my test I used the same chain, KMC 10 speed ebike specific. The first chain, though not cleaned and lubed as well as the latter two, lasted around 1400-1500(it was <0.5 at 1250). The second chain reached 0.5 in only 600-700 miles(around 1000 to 0.75) third even less. For my second chain I attributed it to the lubes I used but for the third chain I began measuring the stretch with a digital caliper and saw that for my third chain even with the factory lube still in place it(I keep that lube for the first 200 miles or so before cleaning and using Dumonde) was wearing out very fast. I realized that one of my cogs were worn , stopped riding on that gear and the wear slowed down significantly.

Once the cassette is worn, even on one cog, it significantly accelerates the wear on the chains and vice versa. So I think the good chain life you got with the 11sl may be a combination of both the chain and the new drivetrain.

I hope you kept the missing link that came with connex since it seems to be the best reusable missing link in the market and you can use with with your other chains.

I think with my new bike I will experiment doing the wax+ptfe method and change the chains before 0.5 to see if I can improve chain life that way.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

It makes sense.

When I was making my test I used the same chain, KMC 10 speed ebike specific. The first chain, though not cleaned and lubed as well as the latter two, lasted around 1400-1500(it was <0.5 at 1250). The second chain reached 0.5 in only 600-700 miles(around 1000 to 0.75) third even less. For my second chain I attributed it to the lubes I used but for the third chain I began measuring the stretch with a digital caliper and saw that for my third chain even with the factory lube still in place it(I keep that lube for the first 200 miles or so before cleaning and using Dumonde) was wearing out very fast. I realized that one of my cogs were worn , stopped riding on that gear and the wear slowed down significantly.

Once the cassette is worn, even on one cog, it significantly accelerates the wear on the chains and vice versa. So I think the good chain life you got with the 11sl may be a combination of both the chain and the new drivetrain.

I hope you kept the missing link that came with connex since it seems to be the best reusable missing link in the market and you can use with with your other chains.

I think with my new bike I will experiment doing the wax+ptfe method and change the chains before 0.5 to see if I can improve chain life that way.

Chain wear and cassette wear go hand in hand.
10 speed Deore cassette's are cheap ($35). So, I just run both the chain and cassette upto 3500 miles and at that point replace both.
Of course, chain cleaning happens every ~250 miles but I don't have to worry about replacing chains every 1000 miles.

 

[Johnny]

Chain wear and cassette wear go hand in hand.
10 speed Deore cassette's are cheap ($35). So, I just run both the chain and cassette upto 3500 miles and at that point replace both.
Of course, chain cleaning happens every ~250 miles but I don't have to worry about replacing chains every 1000 miles.

I agree with you, for cheaper cassettes like Deore your strategy makes sense.

However with expensive cassettes/ chainrings etc. it can pay off to change the chains early (before 0.5). If you look at the chain wear graphs you will see that the wear is not linear. The rate of wear increases with usage time so by changing the chain early (<0.5) we maximize the time spent in the low rate of wear stage and not wear out the drivetrain fast. In the end it seems to be a trade off between number of cassettes vs number of chains replaced.

 

[Alaskan]

The cassette sprockets that wear out fastest are the ones with the fewest teeth. You can buy the 11 & 13 tooth sprockets stand alone and just replace those. This can double the life of a cassette.

 

[FlatSix911]

The cassette spickets that wear out fastest are the ones with the fewest teeth. You can buy the 11 & 13 tooth sprockets stand alone and just replace those. This can double the life of a cassette.

Great idea to replace the smallest sprockets with the greatest wear.

 

[tallpaul]

Alaskan I was wondering if you have an update on your test with Connex 11SE?



Likewise Paul, it would be great to listen your experience , did you observe any noticeable improvement with KMC e10?

Basically found the KMC eBike 10 chain lasted about the same 1500 miles the original Shimano chain lasted.
I clean and lube very other ride, say 50 or so miles. Heavy duty cleaning very 500 or so miles. Mostly paved riding. Found the ceramic wet lubes the most effective. Finish Line Ceramic WET Bicycle Chain Lube
Might try the KMC 11SL that Alaskan is using if they have a 10 speed version.
Did change out all the sprockets, chainring, and SES sprocket (Haibike specific on full suspension until the 4th gens Bosch motor which thankfully eliminates the SES).

 

[tallpaul]

update: KMC X10SL 10-Speed Chain only available in 116 length chain which if not mistaken is too short for my bike. I usually get the 136 length and trim to size.

 

[tomjasz]

Whipperman Connex 11SE was disappointing

Disappointed here too! Their "eBike" chains will not run on narrow-wide chainwheels.