Reason(s) for the harsh Vado ride

[rochrunner]

Given the number of suspension seat posts mentioned here (and I'll probably join the crowd soon), I suspect I'm not the only one to have noticed this, and I'm simply curious about why this seems to be so.

Mainly, I've been surprised at how jolting the ride on my Vado can be. As an example, there are some concrete streets leading out of my subdivision that I traverse often. Over the years on the older parts, some of the slabs have subsided a bit, leaving about a 1/4" sharp-edged lip when going from one to the next. Riding over these on the Vado it feels like someone's hammering on the base of my spine, which is admittedly tender at this time. Similarly, one of our unpaved rail-trails has a surface with a lot of small stones embedded in it that produce a continual very rough ride.

I remembered that these were not exactly smooth on my other bikes and that I had particularly complained about the trail before, but when I finally got out on my Specialized Crosstrail the other day it was actually very different. The Crosstrail is similar to the Vado in geometry, maybe a bit more of a forward lean, but it has an aluminum frame and rigid seatpost, plus skinnier 700x38 Trigger Pro tires at 10-15psi more pressure. But it went right over the slab joints with much less of a bang, and riding on the trail the ride was smooth compared to the Vado.

So is the difference in ride due mostly somehow to the difference in weight, the Vado weighing about 2x the Crosstrail? Do the Vado tires have stiffer sidewalls? Or maybe since I have to pedal the Crosstrail with more effort, it lifts some of my weight off the saddle?

It does make me more sympathetic with my wife who complained a bit last year about similar issues on her Trek Verve+ compared to her analog Verve, but the Verve+ actually comes with a telescoping spring seatpost (as does the new Vado LTD). Hmm...

 

[Marci jo]

No kidding Rochrunner!

I experienced the same thing with my Vado when I first got it. Thought it was going to hammer my skeleton apart!
Got this info from the customer service rep from Cirrus. By the way, they are fabulous. Very patient and informative.

- Because ebike are heavier the bumps are very jarring. Many ebikes are over 50 lbs.
- Speed. Ebikes are flying over these bumps and thus contributing to the harshness. Kinda like a big pickup truck with no suspension.
- Tires. The manufactures use stiffer tires to prevent flats. My 6.0 came with Electrax 2". I think they had a significant amount of concrete in the sidewall. (lol) I changed them out to Triggers and it helped.
- Shocks or no shocks. My opinion, my spring front shock is useless. But I ride with most of my weight on the seat. Not sure I would get another front shock. That's another thread.
- Seat post! Granted, the customer service rep maybe was trying to sell me a seat post but it worked! Made a huge different in riding comfort. Now I have both ebikes with Kinect seat posts. I considered a Thudbuster but didn't have enough length in the seat post.

OK, something to think about. There's many threads here regarding seat posts.
If you find other points that help, please post them.

 

[Art Deco]

No kidding Rochrunner!

I experienced the same thing with my Vado when I first got it. Thought it was going to hammer my skeleton apart!
Got this info from the customer service rep from Cirrus. By the way, they are fabulous. Very patient and informative.

- Because ebike are heavier the bumps are very jarring. Many ebikes are over 50 lbs.
- Speed. Ebikes are flying over these bumps and thus contributing to the harshness. Kinda like a big pickup truck with no suspension.
- Tires. The manufactures use stiffer tires to prevent flats. My 6.0 came with Electrax 2". I think they had a significant amount of concrete in the sidewall. (lol) I changed them out to Triggers and it helped.
- Shocks or no shocks. My opinion, my spring front shock is useless. But I ride with most of my weight on the seat. Not sure I would get another front shock. That's another thread.
- Seat post! Granted, the customer service rep maybe was trying to sell me a seat post but it worked! Made a huge different in riding comfort. Now I have both ebikes with Kinect seat posts. I considered a Thudbuster but didn't have enough length in the seat post.

OK, something to think about. There's many threads here regarding seat posts.
If you find other points that help, please post them.

@MarciJo You have special handlebars and stem, IIRC. I assume they help with numbness ?

 

[Phyz]

I tell people that with my Kinekt, I'm more willing to stay in the saddle when I hit speed bumps. Sacramento is filled with speed bumps. Before Kinekt, I put several inches between my saddle and my tush when hitting the speed bumps.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I can tell you even a full suspension e-bike experiences some trouble on such a surface unless the tyre pressure is greatly reduced. The only cure is to ride slower. You do have the Kinekt, Rochrunner, don't you.

 

[rochrunner]

I can tell you even a full suspension e-bike experiences some trouble on such a surface unless the tyre pressure is greatly reduced. The only cure is to ride slower. You do have the Kinekt, Rochrunner, don't you.

Not yet

 

[Marcela]

I like to see a little sidewall tire flex on my tires. For the Vado 5.0, original tires, I'm using 45 lbs. front and rear. Sequoia is similar tires, about same pressure. Tires can be part of your suspension. The 5.0 is 57 lbs., I am 190 lbs.

 

[Marci jo]

@MarciJo You have special handlebars and stem, IIRC. I assume they help with numbness ?

Thanks Art Deco,
Yes, I have been using the Sartori Turn-Up stem on all my bikes for many years. It has two adjustments and I am able to bring the handle bars significantly back and upward, so hardly any weight on my bad wrist. My situation is unique and most other cyclists don't require such a modification. The trick is to make sure there is enough cable length.

Most bike stores don't carry it but I have used either Amazon of good-old ebay.

 

[Art Deco]

Thanks Art Deco,
Yes, I have been using the Sartori Turn-Up stem on all my bikes for many years. It has two adjustments and I am able to bring the handle bars significantly back and upward, so hardly any weight on my bad wrist. My situation is unique and most other cyclists don't require such a modification. The trick is to make sure there is enough cable length.

View attachment 55082

Most bike stores don't carry it but I have used either Amazon of good-old ebay.

Interesting. I see lots of mech bike riders shaking their hands b/c of numbness, I haven't ridden a long enough time on the bike, but after 2 hours of electric lawn mower, my hards are numb and shoulders sore. I assume it's the same thing.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I use the Baramind BAM Trek shock-absorbing handlebars on my Vado. Don't do very much if you ask me. Or, I have expected more from it. Thick padded breathable finger-less gloves help far more.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I use the Baramind BAM Trek shock-absorbing handlebars on my Vado. Don't do very much if you ask me.

That could be largely because you have a big stem extender and the amount of pressure on the front wheel is minimal.

If you don't have much pressure on the front wheel through your arms, then you barely feel it.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

If you don't have much pressure on the front wheel through your arms, then you barely feel it.

Oh Ravi, I used almost maximum tyre pressure before I dropped that for softer rides. The handlebars never really helped me soften the slow vibration as promised.

 

[TS25]

I use the Baramind BAM Trek shock-absorbing handlebars on my Vado. Don't do very much if you ask me. Or, I have expected more from it.

This complies with the conclusion of the

Bachelor Thesis - System Engineering Analysis of the forces effective on a bicycle cockpit

"The effect of the bamCity handlebar is clearly visible in the plots of fig. 40. The lighter vibrations
are effectively smoothed. The feedback of the subjects also confirms this. They feel the flex of the
handlebar. The experience is unusual and takes time getting used to. But it is not a bad feeling.
It should be highlighted that the effect of the handlebar is weaker when the suspension fork is more rigid
(= closed). Rigid damping results in lower elongation values than open damping."

(found on the Baramind site)

Time to get a suspension fork in addition.

 

[Cyklefanatic]

No kidding Rochrunner!

I experienced the same thing with my Vado when I first got it. Thought it was going to hammer my skeleton apart!
Got this info from the customer service rep from Cirrus. By the way, they are fabulous. Very patient and informative.

- Because ebike are heavier the bumps are very jarring. Many ebikes are over 50 lbs.
- Speed. Ebikes are flying over these bumps and thus contributing to the harshness. Kinda like a big pickup truck with no suspension.
- Tires. The manufactures use stiffer tires to prevent flats. My 6.0 came with Electrax 2". I think they had a significant amount of concrete in the sidewall. (lol) I changed them out to Triggers and it helped.
- Shocks or no shocks. My opinion, my spring front shock is useless. But I ride with most of my weight on the seat. Not sure I would get another front shock. That's another thread.
- Seat post! Granted, the customer service rep maybe was trying to sell me a seat post but it worked! Made a huge different in riding comfort. Now I have both ebikes with Kinect seat posts. I considered a Thudbuster but didn't have enough length in the seat post.

OK, something to think about. There's many threads here regarding seat posts.
If you find other points that help, please post them.

I concur with Rochrunner and you. The Vado has a harsh ride and the higher speeds only make it worse. The cheap suspension fork does nothing for lighter riders like me. I am going to go the Kinect route as Stephan has suggested. I also run my tires below the recommended pressure. I am seriously thinking of going to a rigid fork and adding an adjustable suspension stem. Also I find that I ride 10% of the time with no hands to relieve wrist stress and also change the stress points on the seat.

 

[rochrunner]

OP here. I'm planning on posting a ride report eventually, but after setting my tires to 60psi and riding 50 miles on the types of surfaces and at the pace I'm expecting to do most of my riding, I no longer feel the need for a suspension seat post and find that the bike is not significantly rougher than my similar non-e hybrid.

 

[Deleted member 4210]

I rode a customers Vado and it was brutal. It's just a super stiff frame, with no suppleness at all. You feel every little bump and even the thin asphalt strips that are covering cracks. Nearly Every ebike in my shop (except folders with narrow tires) rides better than the Vado, including the Yamahas, which have narrower road tires running at higher pressures and no front fork. (75 psi to 85 psi). No idea why Specialized would design a frame that is so stiff. It's rather bizarre.

 

[Deleted member 4210]

Here is super comfort at half the price of the Vado.

Pace 500, w Schwalbe Super Motos, 2.8" wide, NCX Suspension seat post, Cloud 9 Contour Cruiser seat.

Top speed 31 mph.

 

[Marcela]

On my 5.0 I leave the hand grips just loose enough I can twist them to whatever position I want. When I first started riding it I would move them quite a bit, now I don't even bother. My wrists don't bother me. the 5.0 rides real smooth.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Time to get a suspension fork in addition.

No friggin' way!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

No idea why Specialized would design a frame that is so stiff. It's rather bizarre.

You don't get the whole idea Mike ☺
Vado is a child of the MTB. The less flex in the MTB the better. Even the through-axles are meant for the lateral stiffness.