Rad law suit
- Thread starter Gordon71
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Mike TowpathTraveler
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Post #16 acknowledges the parent's professions.
The Brick
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I stand corrected.
The best solution is to sue the parents for being stupid parents. It'll never happen but why not dream?
Mike TowpathTraveler
Well-Known Member
No problem. Though I must say, the parent's have enough suffering and guilt that will be with them til the day they die. No need to compound their anguish.
Regards to the front fork, I come away surprised that in this day and age, that anyone would manufacture a fork with vertical dropouts. After having owned my own Haibike with thru-axles, I'm convinced that should be the world standard for any bicycle made in 2022.
The Brick
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OK. Skip the trial and hang them. Then they won't have guilt, suffer or anguish. And, ropes are reusable.
Djangodog
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My guess is that the parents will get a settlement. People have successfully sued after spilling hot coffee on their lap.
I had a friend that died in a sailplane crash. He was flying in the U.S. Nationals in Chelan Washington. He only had about fifteen hours on his new, high performance sailplane. While flying at approximately 8,000’ in fairly smooth conditions on a practice day, whitenesses said that the sailplane pitched up about 30 degrees, yawed and went into a spin. The spin got progressively tighter and both wings were torn off making the glider into a dart. My friend’s body was beside the wreckage and he didn’t get a chance to deploy his parachute.
The thing that makes this relevant is that despite the fact that he was inexperienced in that model of high performance sailplane, that he had two controlled substances on his blood and that with that being a practice day, (and knowing him very well), he probably initiated the spin deliberately, his widow successfully sued the manufacturer for wrongful death. I knew him well. He was a very skilled pilot, but reckless as they come and no stranger to substance abuse. He was solely responsible for his own death.
It’s not unusual for a pilot to throw a new aircraft around to see how it reacts and to get a feel for it. But if you are flying under the influence, you own the result.
m@Robertson
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Its nowhere near as cavalier as that. If it turns out that liability is found due to this QR-on-the-front-wheel business, and that the dropouts are a part of this liability, that can have a colossal impact on the bicycle and ebike industry. To call it 'chilling' is a vast understatement as it would open up almost every ebike manufacturer to crippling lawsuits.
But it is expressly cited as a specific cause of action in the form of negligent manufacture in the lawsuit. So regardless of whether the accident had anything to do with the axle popping out (i.e. speculation is irrelevant), if there is liability found on this issue thats going to have a huge impact on manufacture from all players (not just Rad), parts availability etc.
Now... truth be told this issue should have been addressed long ago. As I noted a few dozen posts back, these are the same manufacturers who brought freewheels back from the dead years after they should have disappeared without a trace. Regardless, these parts flood the market and manufacturers are hanging out to dry if things go in the direction of this being something you can demand recompense for. Ignoring accidents, what happens if this claim is upheld and everyone who owns a Rad or whatever demands a new fork? Or Rad is left with no choice but to issue a product recall and has to bankroll a mass replacement?
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Mr. Coffee
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This isn’t the first lawsuit where product design issues with respect to QR skewers and disc brakes. There was a notable recall and lawsuit involving Trek in about 2015.
Not only is there the vertical dropout problem, but the lever itself can be caught in the disk brake and literally lever the wheel out, and in some cases the braking force can cause the skewer to tighten and eventually fail.
Not only is there the vertical dropout problem, but the lever itself can be caught in the disk brake and literally lever the wheel out, and in some cases the braking force can cause the skewer to tighten and eventually fail.
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About this QR business. Are there any statistics to show how often a properly tightened front wheel actually falls off? As I said I had to remove mine to fix a flat at around 600 miles. As I recall after releasing the clamp I had to pound on the tire with the palm of my hand quite a bit to get it to release. That was about 3,000 miles ago and when I tried to release the clamp before my ride today it took a lot of force to release the lever and I'm a 200lb fit male. I know my female friend would not have been able to do it. All that said I would have no problem if they stopped making them that way but still I find that I'm not terribly worried about my wheel falling off.
Didn't sound like front wheel fell off more like speed wobble from weight on back. I'm experienced rider but still have wobbly moments when heavy weight is added to rack as I mostly ride lightly laden.
Helmets will only protect if correctly fitted, which you really see with lot of casual riders.
Unfortunately no lawsuit will bring back their daughter.
Helmets will only protect if correctly fitted, which you really see with lot of casual riders.
Unfortunately no lawsuit will bring back their daughter.
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It is difficult to find exact statistics on how often a properly tightened front wheel falls off, as it is a rare occurrence. However, it is important to note that a properly tightened front wheel is crucial for safe operation of a bicycle.
The quick release (QR) mechanism is designed to allow for easy removal and installation of the wheel, but it is important to make sure that it is properly tightened before riding. If the lever is not fully closed and tightened, the wheel can become loose during riding and cause a dangerous accident.
Similarly, car accidents are also a serious concern when it comes to road safety. It is important to follow traffic laws, drive defensively, and maintain proper maintenance on your vehicle to help prevent accidents. However, even with the best precautions, accidents can still occur due to factors such as driver error, road conditions, or unforeseen circumstances. If you are involved in a car accident, it is important to remain calm, check for injuries, and call for help if necessary. Remember to exchange information with the other party involved and contact your insurance company to report the accident. Seeking legal advice at https://verkhovetslaw.com/car-accidents/ may also be necessary if there are any disputes or injuries involved.
In your case, it is concerning that you had to use a lot of force to release the QR lever, even though it was properly tightened. This could be a sign of a malfunctioning or worn-out QR mechanism. It is recommended to have the QR mechanism checked and possibly replaced by a professional bike mechanic.
While it is understandable that you may not be too worried about your wheel falling off, it is important to prioritize safety when riding a bicycle. Checking and properly tightening the QR mechanism before each ride can prevent accidents and ensure a safe and enjoyable ride.
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Mr. Coffee
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No, and I don't have a clue how you'd manage to collect such statistics.
There have been multiple recalls of bikes and components by the major manufacturers due to QR failures caused by disc brakes. Many of these were some years ago.
QR skewers have been around a hundred years. Disc brakes a little more than a dozen. I and a lot of people suspect that the nature of the forces a disc brake applies to the skewer can cause problems never anticipated by the designers of QR skewers, possibly including catastrophic failure and the wheel falling off. I too have noticed on some bikes that the skewer tends to tighten over time, and I speculate (but do not know) that the braking action from the disc brake is causing this. My concern is that a skewer can fail from being over-tightened just as much as from not being properly tightened and set in the first place.
Thru axles 100 percent solve any problems in this area. My recommendation is that if you are buying a new bike look for one with thru axles on both the front and rear, and at a minimum on the front wheel.
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Apologies for the newbie question, but what exactly is a thru-axle and (more importantly), how do you know whether your front wheel has one? I know that my bike does because it’s in the product description, but that’s the only way I know. What I am wondering is whether my kids’ hand-me-down bikes have them. (Their bikes are 20 years old and I no longer know what models they are).
I’d think that “thru-axle” just literally means “a rod that goes through the axle.” But every bike has that, don’t they? (In the sense that there has to be a rod that goes through the front wheel’s axle and is secured by the quick release lever on one side and a nut on the other side or by a nut on both sides.) So I assume a “thru-axle” design refers to something more specific. Either that, or not every bike has such a rod; but then I can’t envision how the front wheel would be connected to the fork.
EDIT: disregard - the Google machine explained the answer. Figured I’d still leave this post up in case other newbies have similar questions in future.
I’d think that “thru-axle” just literally means “a rod that goes through the axle.” But every bike has that, don’t they? (In the sense that there has to be a rod that goes through the front wheel’s axle and is secured by the quick release lever on one side and a nut on the other side or by a nut on both sides.) So I assume a “thru-axle” design refers to something more specific. Either that, or not every bike has such a rod; but then I can’t envision how the front wheel would be connected to the fork.
EDIT: disregard - the Google machine explained the answer. Figured I’d still leave this post up in case other newbies have similar questions in future.
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fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
usually it means a hollow rod that threads into one side. though they can have a quick release too but usually you dont have loose parts and springs like you do with a quick release. they tend to be 10 to 12mm
m@Robertson
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Some simple self-checks should resolve things more practically. Its likely the QR mechanism suffered from a common issue: It was just a little too tight. It is more or less typical that people use much more force than necessary to secure a QR skewer. Another potential contributor is perhaps the forks being a bit tight of a fit to the hub, but that would not be the entire issue. Lastly, also as a function of being too tight on the wheel, the ridged steel end piece over the axle - that serves to provide direct contact with the forks - is often ridged and may be made of steel. That can make it sticky as it digs into the fork. The issue of proper tension is addressed at about 1:30 in this instructional vid. Also note the lever angle at 3:00.
I understand the whole 'take it to a professional mechanic' bit is the lawyer-safe advice, but it isn't practical. A QR hub is almost by definition a component expressly meant to be user-serviceable and should be fully understood by the consumer, it is better to have that knowledge and do it yourself, rather than having someone do it for you - QR checks need to be done more frequently than you can and should make shop visits (also, if the skewer is somehow bad, a new one can be purchased inexpensively. I personally prefer Axelrodz, assuming whatever wheels you have fit them, or DT Swiss if you feel you need the lever action, but they are quite pricey.
To amplify a bit on the response @fooferdoggie and Google gave you, a thru axle integrates the attachment mech directly into the frame and fork, so there is no chance of something coming loose and falling off, and VERY little chance of the axle coming completely loose as there are a lot of threads holding it in. Only the most brain-dead rider will not notice in time to fix, and the axle can be quite loose and still be perfectly functional. Because of the difference in mechanism between a thru axle and QR, you don't need much torque at all for a thru axle. 5 to 7.5Nm is the specification for my Bullitt's dropouts which is almost nothing... 3.7 to 5.5 ft lbs which are units of measure so small only a small size bicycle torque wrench can even be set to them.
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fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
yes this happened on our tandem. I was doing something to the wheel and their through axle did not tighten right it felt snug but it felt different. but I thought it was shut the cold. we were coming down a 10 mile long decent on rough ground when something felt weird. found the axle was loose. then it tightened right felt normal.
Stefan Mikes
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They tend to be 12 to 15 mm.
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
there are 10s and others its a bit crazy and different threads too. no standards really.
Stefan Mikes
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fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
thats why I bought a dt-swiss hub you can change the end caps to make it work for a bunch of different bikes.
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