Quality first but dollars count!

[SHarvester]

I’m looking for most miles per dollar, not fewest dollars. You get what you pay for! I want a quality e-bike from a reputable company that provides fast hassle-free service through my local dealer. So right away we are looking at a shortened (alphabetical) list: Aventon; Breezer; Electra; Fuji; Gazelle; Norco; Orbea; Surtas. I’m in (hilly) western MA, 180 lbs, 70 years old, in good shape, looking to go farther faster while pedaling hard. Ideally I’d like one bike to last me 20 years, pedaling 10-50 miles a day on one charge. Any thoughts?

 

[PatriciaK]

I’m looking for most miles per dollar, not fewest dollars. You get what you pay for! I want a quality e-bike from a reputable company that provides fast hassle-free service through my local dealer. So right away we are looking at a shortened (alphabetical) list: Aventon; Breezer; Electra; Fuji; Gazelle; Norco; Orbea; Surtas. I’m in (hilly) western MA, 180 lbs, 70 years old, in good shape, looking to go farther faster while pedaling hard. Ideally I’d like one bike to last me 20 years, pedaling 10-50 miles a day on one charge. Any thoughts?

If there's an REI in your area, check out Espin bikes: https://www.espinbikes.com/
I have their Flow model, which I like very much.

If class 1 is what you're looking for, consider Giant/Momentum, if you have a dealer nearby. I have the E+2 model, currently branded by Momentum, a Giant subsidiary. I ride that one in hilly western WA, and it does a great job handling the hills.

 

[teskow]

My neighborhood is loaded with Specialized e-bikes.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Aventon; Breezer; Electra; Fuji; Gazelle; Norco; Orbea; Surtas.

Of the makes you have named only Gazelle, Norco, and Orbea are premium brands. I am very much for Specialized.
You say "dollars count!" Your welfare and peace of mind count too!

 

[TrevorB]

I’m looking for most miles per dollar, not fewest dollars. You get what you pay for! I want a quality e-bike from a reputable company that provides fast hassle-free service through my local dealer. So right away we are looking at a shortened (alphabetical) list: Aventon; Breezer; Electra; Fuji; Gazelle; Norco; Orbea; Surtas. I’m in (hilly) western MA, 180 lbs, 70 years old, in good shape, looking to go farther faster while pedaling hard. Ideally I’d like one bike to last me 20 years, pedaling 10-50 miles a day on one charge. Any thoughts?

5-10yr life for ebike as battery and motors will most likely need replacing depending on mileage. After market support for electrics will be issue. I stick with Specialized, Yamaha, any of Bosch powered ebikes and Shimano ones using Shimano factory battery. I'd avoid custom batteries on Shimano bikes as bike manufacture may not make replacements in 5 years or could be out of business. Short of frame breakage everything else is standard offshelf bike parts.

Replacing hub motors and controllers isn't problem it will be the custom batteries for holder that will be issue.

 

[SHarvester]

Of the makes you have named only Gazelle, Norco, and Orbea are premium brands. I am very much for Specialized.
You say "dollars count!" Your welfare and peace of mind count too!

Yes I started off liking Aventon reviews, then learned they are based in China, will switch from advertised components to cheaper ones, take months to deliver service. What I’d like doesn’t exist: a review of a 2022-3 model from someone who has ridden 10-50 miles daily for five+ years.

So yes, dollars count, but I’m counting dollars per mile, not fewest dollars. So assume the comfort and speed of the rides for these three brands are similar. Assume I’m pedaling all three constantly at Level 1, shifting gears not levels to go up and downhill. How many miles at 20 mph can I go with each one before it dies? Assuming I try out all three and like riding all three, I just need to divide miles by price to make my bang per buck decision.

Am I missing anything?

 

[SHarvester]

@SHarvester .
You are in Massachusetts.
Wattwagons are in Newton, MA.
They make custom Full Suspension Emtbs. I was going to buy an emtb from them but they don't have a supported dealer in Hawaii.
Check them out their ebikes are well liked.

Newton is a world away from me. I like and trust my local dealer. So I’m looking at the brands they offer, and Stefan in Poland says Gazelle, Norco, and Orbea are the only premium brands I can buy locally and get serviced. See my post to Stefan on how I’m thinking this through? Thanks!

 

[SHarvester]

Completely crazy? Please explain. “Just buy the one I will be happy with”. If I had a crystal ball your advice would be more helpful.

I will be happy with the one that takes me up and downhill at 20 mph the longest. But if there is one ebike that does that for ten years and costs $10,000 and another one that does that for eight years and costs $4,000 I will be happier with $6,000 in my pocket replacing my e bike two years earlier. How is that completely crazy?

 

[pmcdonald]

Ebikes don't last 20 years. As @TrevorB said you'll be doing well to get 5-10 years. In that time I'd hope a whole new generation of bike emerges anyway.

You want to buy from a LBS, which I think is smart for a (more) hassle free experience. Here's a way to cull down your list of options real fast:

1) go to your local stores in person
2) see what models they have on the floor
3) test said models
4) buy the one you like the most

The brains trust here is always on hand to offer advice and insight once you've got a shortlist of available options together.

Most class 1 mid drives should handle your hills just fine, particularly given you sound like you're happy to give the motor lots of leg power assist.

You may need to look at batteries in the 630-750w range for 50 miles of hilly support unless you're willing to drop down the motor assist significantly. Users can advise on range once you settle on a model.

Good luck with the hunt!

 

[fooferdoggie]

Completely crazy? Please explain. “Just buy the one I will be happy with”. If I had a crystal ball your advice would be more helpful.

I will be happy with the one that takes me up and downhill at 20 mph the longest. But if there is one ebike that does that for ten years and costs $10,000 and another one that does that for eight years and costs $4,000 I will be happier with $6,000 in my pocket replacing my e bike two years earlier. How is that completely crazy?

few bikes will get you up a hill at 20mph without very big motor. I doubt you would find one locally that can manage that. either a really bug hub motor or one of the largest bafang mid drives.

 

[PedalUma]

@SHarvester, Are you handy? I make the bikes I want, the way I want them. Bikes I can service with motors I can service and program with external batteries that can easily be swapped. Un-dependence is liberating. The Giant Momentum is a great bike at a very good price. It is the one that @PatriciaK mentioned. It is also comfortable, comes with fenders, and can have a rack so it is not just a toy, but can replace a car in many situations. Giant is the worlds largest maker of bikes and with a solid reputation. All (99%+) bikes come from China, these are Taiwanese.

 

[SHarvester]

few bikes will get you up a hill at 20mph without very big motor. I doubt you would find one locally that can manage that. either a really bug hub motor or one of the largest bafang mid drives.

Thanks for the reality check. So replace the 20 mph with “get up Western MA hills without struggling”. Now do my goals make sense?

 

[SHarvester]

Ebikes don't last 20 years. As @TrevorB said you'll be doing well to get 5-10 years. In that time I'd hope a whole new generation of bike emerges anyway.

You want to buy from a LBS, which I think is smart for a (more) hassle free experience. Here's a way to cull down your list of options real fast:

1) go to your local stores in person
2) see what models they have on the floor
3) test said models
4) buy the one you like the most

The brains trust here is always on hand to offer advice and insight once you've got a shortlist of available options together.

Most class 1 mid drives should handle your hills just fine, particularly given you sound like you're happy to give the motor lots of leg power assist.

You may need to look at batteries in the 630-750w range for 50 miles of hilly support unless you're willing to drop down the motor assist significantly. Users can advise on range once you settle on a model.

Good luck with the hunt!

Very helpful, thanks! I came to this site after 1. Researching positive reviews and having a positive experience riding a new Aventon Level 2 Commuter, and then learning a) they switch to less expensive parts than those advertised and b) they take forever to respond to service issues. So riding a new e-bike and reading reviews from folks who just rode a new e-bike don’t tell the whole story.

Thanks for the reality check on longevity but I think my math still makes sense. Assuming the riding experience is similar, I prefer 5 years from a $2-3K e-bike to 10 years from a $10k e-bike.

I’ll ride the Gazelle, Norco, and Orbea models as weather in MA permits and get back to y’all. Thanks for the great feedback!

 

[pmcdonald]

Very helpful, thanks! I came to this site after 1. Researching positive reviews and having a positive experience riding a new Aventon Level 2 Commuter, and then learning a) they switch to less expensive parts than those advertised and b) they take forever to respond to service issues. So riding a new e-bike and reading reviews from folks who just rode a new e-bike don’t tell the whole story.

Thanks for the reality check on longevity but I think my math still makes sense. Assuming the riding experience is similar, I prefer 5 years from a $2-3K e-bike to 10 years from a $10k e-bike.

I’ll ride the Gazelle, Norco, and Orbea models as weather in MA permits and get back to y’all. Thanks for the great feedback!

I hear you - I'm all for real world user experience. I've tried to create long term user threads on a couple of occasions here but they usually fizzle out pretty quick.

This is a few years old now but offers some insight into time between failure rates: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/spring-2020-ebike-reliability-survey-results.33641/. You can see some affordable brands mixed in among the prestige marques.

This is a more recent study commissioned by a German insurance company: https://www.wertgarantie.de/sites/d...tie-e-bike-reparatur-studie-2021_final_de.pdf. It's in Deutsch but you get the gist. The failure rates for specific brands stack up to what I anecdotally read on Facebook groups. A Bosch CX or Performance equipped bike would be my recommendation. Maybe a Yamaha/Giant.

My observation: motors will eventually fail and batteries will fade. Doesn't matter if it's a $3k bike or a $10k bike, the electronics are fundamentally similar, you'll just get higher spec/lighter/blingier components as the price climbs. It's obsolescence that will kill a bike eventually, unless you go the tinker/DIY route. You can guard against this somewhat by careful selection of the electronic systems (other users can advise which brands, if any, might be the most future proofed), but that will curtail your available options to an even smaller pool.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Gazelle, Norco, and Orbea

Of the brands you mentioned, the Dutch Gazelle has a strong position in the United States and is used by many members of these Fora (who mostly are not "MTBers" in the real meaning of the word). Norco and Orbea are really good in e-MTB but... MTB is for technical riding of mountain singletracks and is not really made for the road. Just to clarify.

@pmcdonald: I would not take the studies you mention as the gospel truth. It is the real users with big mileage that tell you the truth. And the truth is Bosch motors are reliable. As I am not a fan of Gazelle (or Bosch!) as I admit Gazelle users are happy users. The OP's dealer carries the Gazelle. I would only recommend finding an e-bike model with a strong mid-drive motor such as the Bosch CX. It is typically a Class 1 e-bike.

 

[Rexlion]

If you have a Trek/Electra dealer nearby, they are worth a look along with the Gazelle and Giant/Momentum. I am not familiar with Orbea or Norco offhand, but I'm fairly new to ebikes. After reading on this forum for a few months, I'd say scratch off the Aventon.

In the end, you really want to pick one that you feel comfortable with. Take test rides whenever possible.

 

[rich c]

I'm at nearly 7 years on a Haibike with Bosch mid drive, almost 8,200 miles. It's not the only eBike I have, so mileage is low since I switch around. I too am 70. If you buy any eBike with a Bosch drive system, or a Trek eBike, you can use any Trek dealer for service. I suspect Trek has the largest dealer network around. Of all the models you list, I haven't seen any of those in Central IL and definitely no dealers. So it will boil down to if you want a local dealer, or a nation wide dealer network.

 

[SHarvester]

I'm at nearly 7 years on a Haibike with Bosch mid drive, almost 8,200 miles. It's not the only eBike I have, so mileage is low since I switch around. I too am 70. If you buy any eBike with a Bosch drive system, or a Trek eBike, you can use any Trek dealer for service. I suspect Trek has the largest dealer network around. Of all the models you list, I haven't seen any of those in Central IL and definitely no dealers. So it will boil down to if you want a local dealer, or a nation wide dealer network.

“It is the real users with big mileage who tell you the truth.” I don’t go off road or up mountains, so I’m honing in on a Gazelle with Bosch mid-drive. I’ll give one a spin when weather allows. Thanks, all!

 

[fooferdoggie]

Most name brand mid drives will get you up any hill if you can put effort into it. it really depends on How much effort you can put into peddling.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I got 14,000 miles on my bosch powered bike. the bottom bearing rusted out but I think that was more because I ride a ton in the Tain and my bike would stay wet for days. bosch replaced the motor. our bosch powered tandem has 9700 miles on it and my trek almost 4000 in a little over 3 years.