Proper seats/saddles (especially for an e-bike)

[GuruUno]

For the last 5-6 years, I've purchase, tried, have, returned, experimented and do not seem to have the capability to get a proper fitting saddle for the many e-bikes I've had, most currently the Vado 5.0.
I probably have at least 6 or 7 in the garage and the basement.
The most recent one (still using) is the Specialized Power Pro with Mirror, replacing the S-Works Power with Mirror (which snapped).
I've tried Selle Italia, Brooks, Bikeroo, Bontrager, the OEM saddles that come with the bikes, and more.
I've even tried those where you sit on the cardboard to get the proper sit bones measurement.
Nothing seems to work, after a break-in period.
The problem is I have developed a long gash like sore. My wife warns me that if it gets infected, I'll be in worse condition.
I've applied Mupirocin, Neosporin, Diaper Rash creme, hemorrhoid cream, Chamois Butt'r, and I wear padded bike shorts. If I don't ride for 3-4-5 days, it significantly improves, but I'm feeling a bit restricted for those long rides, concerned I'll do damage that will put me out of riding for a lengthy time.
I've been "professionally" fit by the LBS for proper tilt, height, etc., and of course one seat fells better (or different) from the next, but alas, after 20-30 miles, I'm sore and red.
I cannot photograph and post because it's very close to the crotch area lower inside buttocks. Right side is worse than the left.
So, how have YOU dealt with a similar problem? Has anyone found the magic bullet?

 

[tomjasz]

This is my new Day6 seat.

This on Amazon,

 

[GuruUno]

WIDTH is the issue, I'm thinking.
The Specialized Power Pro with Mirror at the back is wide, but not as wide as your reference photo, so I'm of the belief I need narrower at the back.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

For the last 5-6 years, I've purchase, tried, have, returned, experimented and do not seem to have the capability to get a proper fitting saddle for the many e-bikes I've had, most currently the Vado 5.0.
I probably have at least 6 or 7 in the garage and the basement.
The most recent one (still using) is the Specialized Power Pro with Mirror, replacing the S-Works Power with Mirror (which snapped).
I've tried Selle Italia, Brooks, Bikeroo, Bontrager, the OEM saddles that come with the bikes, and more.
I've even tried those where you sit on the cardboard to get the proper sit bones measurement.
Nothing seems to work, after a break-in period.

Guru. I have gone through the same for 3 years to understand that you cannot have painless rides if you sit upright on the saddle. A big part of your body weight must get supported by your arms (that's why ultramarathon gravel cyclists survive; same with roadies on the races). It is also good for your spine and lower back, eliminating numb hands.

Eventually, I ended up with two saddles, one for each respective e-bike:

• The stock Specialized Bridge Sport (Vado SL)
• Specialized Phenom Expert (Vado 6.0).

What I actually did to relieve my butt was:

• Lowering the stem as deep as possible (Vado & Vado SL); using a longer stem on Vado SL to increase the Reach;
• Installing Innerbarends (these two actions let me comfortably ride in the forward position);
• Playing with the saddle angle and setback, so my perineal area (in chamois or not) resides in the "valley" of the seat, with buttocks almost hanging from the saddle.

This is the setup of the saddle ideal for my body. Neither the "nose" nor the rear part of the seat exerts any stress on my body. (Note: For the final setup, I shifted the saddle towards the front of the bike a little).

Guru: You have my Strava and could see my 50 mile ride of today. Trust me: There was not a single moment I needed to think of my butt! Before, I had serious problem with boils/puss (or whatever the English words for that are).

 

[GuruUno]

Thank you. I'll study your placement and angles and attempt to replicate. My ass may not be as big as yours however (kidding)

 

[mschwett]

For the last 5-6 years, I've purchase, tried, have, returned, experimented and do not seem to have the capability to get a proper fitting saddle for the many e-bikes I've had, most currently the Vado 5.0.
I probably have at least 6 or 7 in the garage and the basement.
The most recent one (still using) is the Specialized Power Pro with Mirror, replacing the S-Works Power with Mirror (which snapped).
I've tried Selle Italia, Brooks, Bikeroo, Bontrager, the OEM saddles that come with the bikes, and more.
I've even tried those where you sit on the cardboard to get the proper sit bones measurement.
Nothing seems to work, after a break-in period.
The problem is I have developed a long gash like sore. My wife warns me that if it gets infected, I'll be in worse condition.
I've applied Mupirocin, Neosporin, Diaper Rash creme, hemorrhoid cream, Chamois Butt'r, and I wear padded bike shorts. If I don't ride for 3-4-5 days, it significantly improves, but I'm feeling a bit restricted for those long rides, concerned I'll do damage that will put me out of riding for a lengthy time.
I've been "professionally" fit by the LBS for proper tilt, height, etc., and of course one seat fells better (or different) from the next, but alas, after 20-30 miles, I'm sore and red.
I cannot photograph and post because it's very close to the crotch area lower inside buttocks. Right side is worse than the left.
So, how have YOU dealt with a similar problem? Has anyone found the magic bullet?

ouch. sounds bad. you should take your wife’s advice and let it heal completely. and please, no photos!

i am not sure the relatively narrow mirror saddles are appropriate for the riding position of your Vado. narrow road saddles are designed to not chafe your legs when you’re in a low, forward position, with your weight on your legs, not your backside or hands.

that said, i found the Romin with Mirror better for me than the Power Mirror because it is a lot narrower in the area between the legs, where you do not want any contact. getting your sit bones on the saddle is key but i do not believe road bike saddles like these are really meant to fully “sit” on for hours at a time. CG of a road bike rider is way forward of the saddle, roughly over the cranks. not sure that’s true on a Vado.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

With the caveat that everyone is different, @Stefan Mikes makes some good points.

I too, have had periods of Saddle Woe. Most cyclists end up having them. I note if you have a serious injury nothing is going to work well until that injury heals, so maybe you need to stay off the bike until it has healed and then start over.

So a few suggestions:

1. Get a Second Opinion on that bike fit. Ask around and ideally find a physical therapist or sports medicine PA who can either do the bike fit or can refer you to someone who can.
2. Find a bike shop with a Saddle Library where you can try many different kinds of saddles. I personally doubt this is a saddle problem, though.
3. What clothing are you wearing on the bike? Maybe mix it up a bit and experiment there.
4. Sometimes too much padding, either in the saddle or the padded shorts, can cause as much or more problems than not enough padding.
5. Generally I find the more layers between your bare behind and the saddle the more problems you will have.
6. Bikes aren't necessarily super-comfortable contraptions, and you should expect to have to gradually break in and build up butt endurance over time.
7. You say you are "sore and red" after 20-30 miles. So experiment a bit. What happens when you ride a dozen miles, take a long break of an hour or so, and then ride another dozen miles?
8. Again, you might need to stay off the bike until your injury completely heals to make progress.

 

[m@Robertson]

Something every cyclist who has left the sport for a time and then come back to it learns the hard way: Its not your legs that hurt and its not your legs that give out. Its your ass. Thats the part that has to be reconditioned the most. Think on it for a second... that part of your body gets effectively punched about a zillion times during a ride, and that is over and above just putting your body weight on it for an extended time in what amounts to the world's most uncomfortable chair.

So, you have already figured out the part about how the saddle has to fit your anatomy. You need to keep at that as I suspect you haven't quite got it right yet.

But the biggest thing that jumped out at me was your stating that you are feeling discomfort after 20-30 miles. OK fine.... at what ride distance are you not feeling discomfort? Halve that distance. Ride that for awhile. Then slowly kick it up a notch. Continue with the slow distance increases. Your body needs to train itself up and it has to be done gradually.

Next... you gave yourself a gash. That should never happen with the proper equipment. Maybe its not the seat. Something like skin irritation and damage sounds like repetitive chafing. Its not enough to wear padded shorts. You also want to go a step further and wear shorts that have multiple panels and flat seams. A 4-panel short is less expensive and resembles the construction of an ordinary pair of pants... but the inseam of a pair of normally constructed shorts is positioned directly in a spot that will rub you raw. You want 10- or 12-panel shorts where the small individual panels move with your body in such a way that you don't get any rubbing. Anywhere. This is why cyclists wear lycra shorts. Its not the stretchy material that does the real magic. Its all the little panels and the flat seams that eliminate movement against the body. My best lycra shorts are actually not fit stretchy on me. They are laying almost slack.

Lastly, yes you can ride upright. To a point. Different saddle designs lend themselves to different riding positions and riding techniques. Shorter noses and wider back ends are for cruisers pedaling slowly and sitting upright. Long noses and narrower saddle bodies are for the cyclists pumping their legs and leaning hard forward. Somewhere in the middle for a riding position in the middle.

There is NO law that says your saddle has to be without padding. After much experimentation after my saddle of choice went off the market, I settled on the Ergon ST Core Prime. Thats a 3-layer padded saddle that is shaped somewhat narrow with a long nose and a wide perineal cutout. It turns out the ST Core Prime Mountain is great too with its slightly different shape meant for keeping you planted on singletrack. And I found for both my Bullitts, where I am pedaling hard at a very high cadence, that despite the fact my body says I need the size Large in that saddle, the narrower size Medium is more comfortable for me because of my high cadence. Not because of my ass but because it lessens the rubbing my inner thighs get against the sides of the saddle.

OK thats quite enough about my ass and inner thighs.

One last thing: If you haven't tried a high quality suspension seatpost, consider one. In particular the Kinekt, which of course is the most expensive one on the market. It isolates your butt and lower spine... its not a shock absorber so much as it is a smoother-outer that eliminates a lot of the micro-impacts you take. At this point in your journey its probably not a bad idea to throw everything against the wall and see what sticks.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I am kinda stuck the perfect saddle for me is just too firm unless I am feeling really good. when my energy levels are low my muscles ache and my sit bones hurt like crazy. my soft saddle fills hard as a rock. when I am feeling ok its fine. the firm seat is great its the right width not too much cutout and its flat end to end and side to side. but I have to use a softer one thats a bit too wide flat end to end and side to side.

 

[Gionnirocket]

There's so many variables to consider as those mentioned above... but are those 30mi of smooth paved terrain or not. If the latter I'd say 30mi is pretty good ass endurance. Do you lift off the seat at all... especially for the more punishing setctions of a ride? Even taking a little weight off the seat occasionally helps a lot.
I've found shifting my butt in the saddle ever so slightly back/forward so that it's not in the exact same place during a ride helps

 

[Avg_Joe]

For the last 5-6 years, I've purchase, tried, have, returned, experimented and do not seem to have the capability to get a proper fitting saddle for the many e-bikes I've had, most currently the Vado 5.0.
I probably have at least 6 or 7 in the garage and the basement.
The most recent one (still using) is the Specialized Power Pro with Mirror, replacing the S-Works Power with Mirror (which snapped).
I've tried Selle Italia, Brooks, Bikeroo, Bontrager, the OEM saddles that come with the bikes, and more.
I've even tried those where you sit on the cardboard to get the proper sit bones measurement.
Nothing seems to work, after a break-in period.
The problem is I have developed a long gash like sore. My wife warns me that if it gets infected, I'll be in worse condition.
I've applied Mupirocin, Neosporin, Diaper Rash creme, hemorrhoid cream, Chamois Butt'r, and I wear padded bike shorts. If I don't ride for 3-4-5 days, it significantly improves, but I'm feeling a bit restricted for those long rides, concerned I'll do damage that will put me out of riding for a lengthy time.
I've been "professionally" fit by the LBS for proper tilt, height, etc., and of course one seat fells better (or different) from the next, but alas, after 20-30 miles, I'm sore and red.
I cannot photograph and post because it's very close to the crotch area lower inside buttocks. Right side is worse than the left.
So, how have YOU dealt with a similar problem? Has anyone found the magic bullet?

I think it'd be helpful if you also recapped the current state of your bike and maybe share of photo of you on it. I seem to recall you put Como bars on your Vado; what other changes?

If I am correct in my thinking, you have changed an active/fitness/hybrid bike to... more upright? So a very mixed geometry?

Also, have you played at all with the angle of the saddle?

I'm just some guy on the internet, but a comfort saddle on a sporty bike seems like a bad idea; and a narrow road saddle on an upright bike hurts just thinking about it. I put a Bontrager Boulevard on our Como and that works very well; and the SQLab on my Vado is fantastic. Switching them up made both bikes kinda suck, wrong saddle design for intent of the bike.

 

[PSm]

Lots of good ideas here, but you didn’t mention if you’ve seen a doctor? You should also see them, to rule out other medical condition contributors.
And what is your weight, age, etc?

A good suspension seat post I think is an absolute must, to reduce the ass-pounding.

And if you have the fitness, regularly stand up going up climbs to take the pressure off and spin for a bit, and also lift up your butt and place one cheek or the other on the seat when doing longer coasts downhill.

For my longer multi hour rides (especially 3+ hour rides), I need to do the above, or get sore.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My ass may not be as big as yours however (kidding)

Says who? (Kidding!)

 

[GuruUno]

Following up regarding the questions (and answers) specific to this discussion.
I, am 72 years old (in 2 months), 6'0", 222 lbs.
My Vado 5.0 is a Medium size. I had Large before, and came to find out that a Large was a misconfiguration for my sense of everything, and the Medium feels like a well fitting glove in every respect.
I looked at the settings of Stefan's seat, and adjusted mine to simulate to see if it makes a difference. I'll know in a day or two, as I did not ride today.
Previously, I had made many adjustments as with the assistance of a 'professional' LBS fitter, so who is to say what is right or wrong.
HOPEFULLY, it is only these tweaks that make a difference.
The Como handlebars make my riding much more enjoyable rather than leaning forward and putting my weight on the handlebars. I've used a Kinekt saddle seatpost for years, since the day they were invented. I also tried and dismissed the Redshift post.
Attached are before settings of the seat and after.....(not validated as of yet if they made any difference)
(1st 4 are before, last 2 are after)

 

[mschwett]

nice bike!

… but i strongly feel you have the wrong type of saddle for your position on the bike. if getting a little more weight on your legs and hands isn’t an option, a wider, flatter, squishier seat may do the trick. just don’t expect to pedal too hard!

 

[smorgasbord]

My family is super happy with our SQ Lab saddles: https://electricbikereview.com/foru...s-especially-for-an-e-bike.52596/#post-597098

The fit thing, measuring your sit bones, with the formula applied deltas for how upright you sit really works.

Proper seats/saddles (especially for an e-bike)

For the last 5-6 years, I've purchase, tried, have, returned, experimented and do not seem to have the capability to get a proper fitting saddle for the many e-bikes I've had, most currently the Vado 5.0. I probably have at least 6 or 7 in the garage and the basement. The most recent one (still...

electricbikereview.com

 

[fooferdoggie]

My family is super happy with our SQ Lab saddles: https://electricbikereview.com/foru...s-especially-for-an-e-bike.52596/#post-597098

The fit thing, measuring your sit bones, with the formula applied deltas for how upright you sit really works.

Proper seats/saddles (especially for an e-bike)

For the last 5-6 years, I've purchase, tried, have, returned, experimented and do not seem to have the capability to get a proper fitting saddle for the many e-bikes I've had, most currently the Vado 5.0. I probably have at least 6 or 7 in the garage and the basement. The most recent one (still...

electricbikereview.com

I liked them they would have been perfect but the one I tried was too wide. it was wider than what I had. but it would have been too hard too unless I am feeling good.

 

[GuruUno]

My family is super happy with our SQ Lab saddles: https://electricbikereview.com/foru...s-especially-for-an-e-bike.52596/#post-597098

The fit thing, measuring your sit bones, with the formula applied deltas for how upright you sit really works.

Proper seats/saddles (especially for an e-bike)

For the last 5-6 years, I've purchase, tried, have, returned, experimented and do not seem to have the capability to get a proper fitting saddle for the many e-bikes I've had, most currently the Vado 5.0. I probably have at least 6 or 7 in the garage and the basement. The most recent one (still...

electricbikereview.com

Did that, no-go

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

The problem is I have developed a long gash like sore. My wife warns me that if it gets infected, I'll be in worse condition.

If there were ever a time to listen to your wife, this would be it.

Perineal infections can be dangerous. If "gash like" is even remotely apt, get that sore healed up ASAP — preferably with professional help. Till then, continuing to ride on it will likely only make matters worse.

 

[m@Robertson]

The 'after' pic shows a saddle that has been installed beyond the max limit on the rails, based on the pics I have found for that saddle. That is a dangerous position to put that saddle in. I would expect it to be at risk of snapping. If you need that much setback on the seat, then you have a fitment issue. Ordinarily that means a seatpost with more setback, or a stem with more length (yours is already 90mm) or a longer top tube on the frame or different sweep on the bars. I see you have the Kinekt stem. If you are bottoming that stem at all, be advised there is an extra-heavy spring and a special bump stop upgrade. That finally kept me from bottoming mine on the ones I have.

The only way I can see to keep all your expensive parts is to a) move the seat forward and b) get different handlebars with a reduced backsweep to give you back the 2 cm of reach you need to give up to put that saddle in a safe position. But that will have implications for your wrist angle.

Or just move the seat forward so it is within its safe adjustment range. Doing that, though, might increase leg chafing at the bottom of your pedal stroke. Possibly thats why you moved it so far back.

The angle of the saddle in the 'after' pic looks a lot more appropriate. In the 'before' pic it looked like what you see downhill riders use. IIRC that original upward angle definitely puts pressure on your perineum if you are riding/pedaling.