Thoughts Of An Experienced E-Biker

[Robspace1]

To paraphrase G.K. Chesterton, adventure is inconvenience properly perceived. At least that's Being what I'd tell the kids on family camping trips. They didn't buy it for a second.

 

[Robspace1]

Being comfortable on a bike , motorcycle, car, etc. makes the adventure of traveling to new places that much better. It's foolish to think you need to be hurting with pain to fully enjoy riding a bike. That's why people use suspension on bikes. To overcome a rough ride. If anything, ebikes should be made more comfortable to ride with adjustable air seats like my truck had. Should we toss out the cushy chairs we sit in and throw out those nice soft mattress'? Maybe our cars and motorcycles should run without any comfort from suspension hardware. Comfort overrated? Not even.

 

[kevinmccune]

To paraphrase G.K. Chesterton, adventure is inconvenience properly perceived. At least that's what I'd tell the kids on family camping trips. They didn't buy it for a second.

Love camping as long as I go home and go to bed. I suffered in the elements for 46 years now if I do it ,its a choice.( actually a bit longer not counting the chores at home, feeding critters, splitting wood, carrying water ,etc.)

 

[Djangodog]

Being comfortable on a bike , motorcycle, car, etc. makes the adventure of traveling to new places that much better. It's foolish to think you need to be hurting with pain to fully enjoy riding a bike. That's why people use suspension on bikes. To overcome a rough ride. If anything, ebikes should be made more comfortable to ride with adjustable air seats like my truck had. Should we toss out the cushy chairs we sit in and throw out those nice soft mattress'? Maybe our cars and motorcycles should run without any comfort from suspension hardware. Comfort overrated? Not even.

Bicycle suspension was developed for performance, not comfort. It allows you to ride faster over rough surfaces and maintain traction. Making a bike cushy hinders performance unless the motor is the primary form of propulsion.

People up here in the North East like to get outside during the winter. Skiing, hiking, snowmobiling, snowshoeing, winter camping and fat tire biking are all popular winter activities.

I am retired too, but I’m not ready for a rocking chair.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

I suppose to each his own.

Shouldn't we just leave it at that?

Very different approaches to life and ebikes on parade here. If everyone did what they say they prefer for themselves, they'd be happy, and no one else would be harmed. That's really all that matters.

 

[mschwett]

…It's foolish to think you need to be hurting with pain to fully enjoy riding a bike…

totally agree! however, many make the mistake that a bicycle optimized for performance/human power is uncomfortable. a bike that fits correctly for the rider’s size, flexibility, proportions etc is comfortable, period. i did a beautiful 5 hour ride yesterday and the only pain was if/when i chose to push it hard and my legs complained

 

[tomjasz]

The vast majority of bike and/or ebike owners in this country park their bikes in the wintertime.

In the past, that's been true, but here in SE MN, I've seen more winter bikers than any year in my 60+ years of bicycling. Especially in winter periods when the snow and ice are off the city streets.

These bikes are well built and when a part needs replaced, it's no big deal.

Having been in the biz I have to say you're not correct. Finding replacement parts can be daunting and then finding someone to work on an eBike can be impossible. LOTS of the lower priced eBikes once you go below $1200 IME have substandard components and good luck repairing any motor and controller failures. Riders will be stuck replacing an entire motor hub assembly, controller, and display. In my view, that's an expensive project in parts alone.

NOW that said I have now seen quite a few $2000 eBikes that with some diligence and research be sustainable and use components that have a parts stream. However, hand around long enough and you'll read some poor poster that bought a sub $1500 ride and is stuck and or the repair is as I described. I wish your anecdotal reference to your riding club was more than just anecdotal, but 7 years of working in tech support made me see another side.

I think that the biggest downside is the service and repair of electrical components. Often buyers don't get that they will have to be their own service person. Fortunately, many LBS will work on the acoustic components. Several around here are good about that. But most won't allow your battery in their shop.

 

[tomjasz]

I'd say this discussion is played out.

Played out if your singular view is accepted. I contend our views, I'm including myself, as retirees are definitely skewed by our status. That poor guy that saved a little every paycheck and just got over-anxious and jumped on the $1500 or less eBike without knowing there was a parts stream is pooched when the motor goes bad and he may be looking at a $500-$750 repair. Or those generic cells in the battery pack crap out shortly after the 1-2 year warranty.

I've never kept any bike with suspension. IMO decent components will cost about what I spend on a better-quality conversion kit. I live in a small SE MN city with decent streets and my $110 suspension seat post is sufficient. My body is pretty well busted up but a flat foot frame and suspension seat post make for lounge chair comfort, for me.

That said I'm enjoying your input and this discussion. Would you mind sharing where you ride? City? Trails? MUP?

 

[m@Robertson]

The thing is, price is a wall that many cannot climb. You either buy in at an affordable level - that may take you some time to be able to muster even at that lower level - or you stay completely away. Thats where the whole elitist thing comes into play.

People are effectively saying "you must spend at this level to get the quality I think you don't know enough to know you should have. If you don't, the bike is not good enough and should not exist. You should not be allowed this opportunity to buy so cheaply", and that is because I know better as to what should constitute a product you should buy."

Everything in life has tradeoffs. The good of DTC bikes FAR outweighs the bad. They get people on two wheels. They change minds. They create more cyclists. More registered voters. More sympathetic ears.

 

[Robspace1]

Bicycle suspension was developed for performance, not comfort. It allows you to ride faster over rough surfaces and maintain traction. Making a bike cushy hinders performance unless the motor is the primary form of propulsion.

People up here in the North East like to get outside during the winter. Skiing, hiking, snowmobiling, snowshoeing, winter camping and fat tire biking are all popular winter activities.

I am retired too, but I’m not ready for a rocking chair.

Wrong. While mountain bikes need the performance enhancements of offroad tires, more suspension, bigger lights etc. Street ebikes use the front suspension for comfort. Larger spring saddles, raised Hbar type handlebars, seatpost suspension, all add to a much smoother ride. Hitting potholes at 20 mph can be not only jarring but dangerous, especially at night. With good suspension you don't feel every little rock you roll over. I'm not riding for performance values, but for pure enjoyment only. I don't care about a little extra weight of having suspension, comfy spring seat, balloon tires and raised handlebars. My bones and ass don't hurt after a 30 mile ride. My bike is faster then most other ebikes in the bike club I run with and it's comfortable to ride. Best of both worlds. Too each they're own.

 

[Robspace1]

The thing is, price is a wall that many cannot climb. You either buy in at an affordable level - that may take you some time to be able to muster even at that lower level - or you stay completely away. Thats where the whole elitist thing comes into play.

People are effectively saying "you must spend at this level to get the quality I think you don't know enough to know you should have. If you don't, the bike is not good enough and should not exist. You should not be allowed this opportunity to buy so cheaply", and that is because I know better as to what should constitute a product you should buy."

Everything in life has tradeoffs. The good of DTC bikes FAR outweighs the bad. They get people on two wheels. They change minds. They create more cyclists. More registered voters. More sympathetic ears.

That, my friend is simply the best post I've seen on this site in a long time. Thanks for that!

 

[m@Robertson]

Wrong. While mountain bikes need the performance enhancements of offroad tires, more suspension, bigger lights etc.

No. He's right. Read his statement more carefully and take it in the narrow context it presents. Suspension was developed originally for mtb's. City bikes came later. The purpose of suspension is when, for example, a front wheel hits a root. With a suspension fork the whole bike doesn't pop up, go airborne (brakes and steering do nothing in the air) and then eventually come down again. The fork instead soaks up the impact and puts the wheel back on the ground in the shortest possible time. Same goes for rear suspension. There's more to it than that, but the root statement is correct. Suspension came into being to enhance off road performance. The comfort stuff came later.

But it still came. Purists' argumentation often turns a blind eye to the fact that suspension is an effective aid to riding comfort. My most comfortable commuter was one with a front suspension fork. My most comfortable bike period is my FS emtb, and at least half of its life is spent ferrying me across town over pavement after I have dropped my car off at the shop (it fits in the back of my car). I really appreciate the lesser impacts that result from a full suspension setup, and I don't much care if there is a loss of pedaling efficiency as a result. I'll still pedal and I'll still get where I am going. My butt, lower back and wrists will feel better thanks to that suspension, which provides benefits far surpassing those of suspension seatposts and stems.

Also: Riding in the winter is preferable, if anything. I don't switch to long pants until temp gets down to the mid 30's fahrenheit. If you are exercising all that near-freezing cold means is you aren't sweating, which is a nice thing. Your body heat keeps you warm. I prefer it to when the summers hit here and its 100-110. Natural air conditioning. If I was just exercising my thumb on a throttle then yes that would suck but so would my life if that was all a bike ride was to me (but that doesn't mean its not fine for someone else).

 

[Robspace1]

No. He's right. Read his statement more carefully and take it in the narrow context it presents. Suspension was developed originally for mtb's. City bikes came later. The purpose of suspension is when, for example, a front wheel hits a root. With a suspension fork the whole bike doesn't pop up, go airborne (brakes and steering do nothing in the air) and then eventually come down again. The fork instead soaks up the impact and puts the wheel back on the ground in the shortest possible time. Same goes for rear suspension. There's more to it than that, but the root statement is correct. Suspension came into being to enhance off road performance. The comfort stuff came later.

But it still came. Purists' argumentation often turns a blind eye to the fact that suspension is an effective aid to riding comfort. My most comfortable commuter was one with a front suspension fork. My most comfortable bike period is my FS emtb, and at least half of its life is spent ferrying me across town over pavement after I have dropped my car off at the shop (it fits in the back of my car). I really appreciate the lesser impacts that result from a full suspension setup, and I don't much care if there is a loss of pedaling efficiency as a result. I'll still pedal and I'll still get where I am going. My butt, lower back and wrists will feel better thanks to that suspension, which provides benefits far surpassing those of suspension seatposts and stems.

Also: Riding in the winter is preferable, if anything. I don't switch to long pants until temp gets down to the mid 30's fahrenheit. If you are exercising all that near-freezing cold means is you aren't sweating, which is a nice thing. Your body heat keeps you warm. I prefer it to when the summers hit here and its 100-110. Natural air conditioning. If I was just exercising my thumb on a throttle then yes that would suck but so would my life if that was all a bike ride was to me (but that doesn't mean its not fine for someone else).

Good post. You summed up what I was saying. Suspension on my ebike and on my girlfriends ebike make a huge difference in comfort and control. The ride is made with much less back and butt pain. Well worth the upgrade. The only time I use my throttle is taking off from stop lights and signs. For those that enjoy riding over potholes and bike trail tree roots with no front or middle suspension I say good on ya! If I was still a young guy with rubber limbs it would be no problem. I'd still be surfing the cold big waves of Northern Cal. as well. But time and Mother Nature has a way of changing all that. lol

 

[Robspace1]

Eh, just a friendly debate. Seems to me that because most ebike purchases are made by men 40÷ the benefits of a safer, more comfortable riding ebike would be a real bonus for most people. I predict that suspension will be stock on ebikes in the near future. The extra weight and power of motorized bikes makes added comfort real attractive many riders. But, it's up to each rider know how much pain and discomfort they want to put up with. Just as I avoid bad roads with lots of ruts and potholes, I choose add-ons that make my cruising along smoother.

 

[mschwett]

…up to each rider know how much pain and discomfort they want to put up with. Just as I avoid bad roads with lots of ruts and potholes, I choose add-ons that make my cruising along smoother

appreciate your points, and they’re certainly valid, but once again you’re making a false dichotomy. i don’t put up with any pain and discomfort! no suspension, no big motors. different strokes for different folks, and different usage situations.

 

[Robspace1]

appreciate your points, and they’re certainly valid, but once again you’re making a false dichotomy. i don’t put up with any pain and discomfort! no suspension, no big motors. different strokes for different folks, and different usage situations.

What false? I never said any setup was right for anyone. I'm saying the difference between suspension on any vehicle and those without is like night and day. Any hard frame vehicle is sending road shock to the driver/rider. That's a fact. With suspension of any kind, that road shock and vibration is dampened way down and absorbed by the hardware instead of the driver or rider. Some prefer the "feel of the road", most people prefer to not feel it coming through the vehicle. Ever ride in a car or motorcycle with bad shocks and hit a speed bump? It's not good and can be dangerous. I love having front and center suspension. Wish I had it on the rear. Makes rutted streets a lot easier to handle.

 

[mschwett]

What false? I never said any setup was right for anyone. I'm saying the difference between suspension on any vehicle and those without is like night and day. Any hard frame vehicle is sending road shock to the driver/rider. That's a fact. With suspension of any kind, that road shock and vibration is dampened way down and absorbed by the hardware instead of the driver or rider. Some prefer the "feel of the road", most people prefer to not feel it coming through the vehicle. Ever ride in a car or motorcycle with bad shocks and hit a speed bump? It's not good and can be dangerous. I love having front and center suspension. Wish I had it on the rear. Makes rutted streets a lot easier to handle.

what you said was “it’s up to each rider how much pain and discomfort…”

a properly set up and chosen bike isn’t painful or uncomfortable, suspension or not. that is all.

there are many ways to lessen road vibrations. lightweight carbon frames are carefully tuned to dampen vibrations and flex (far more than you’d think), carbon rims, less weight overall, low pressure tubeless tires with supple sidewalls, etc. and, of course, local conditions make a huge difference!

 

[Djangodog]

Suspension does add comfort and is important in maintaining traction and control over rough surfaces. Good frames are designed with vertical compliance built in. Tires, wheels, saddles, stems, handlebars, your knees and seat posts can add more vertical compliance. Passive suspension is more than enough for most road riding without adding the weight, complexity and maintenance of mechanical add-ons.

Comfort and handling can be improved by adding a good quality suspension seat post and stem, (I have a Cane Creek eeSilk post and stem). I also use supple tires at 40 psi.

Unfortunately, most ebike suspension lacks rebound damping and is not very tunable, (basically having a double barrel pogo stick). They will still soak up the bumps, but steering precision and control suffer.

I have nothing against good suspension, but if the bike is designed well and only ridden on smooth to moderately rough surfaces, it’s already there.

 

[Robspace1]

Suspension does add comfort and is important in maintaining traction and control over rough surfaces. Good frames are designed with vertical compliance built in. Tires, wheels, saddles, stems, handlebars, your knees and seat posts can add more vertical compliance. Passive suspension is more than enough for most road riding without adding the weight, complexity and maintenance of mechanical add-ons.

Comfort and handling can be improved by adding a good quality suspension seat post and stem, (I have a Cane Creek eeSilk post and stem). I also use supple tires at 40 psi.

Unfortunately, most ebike suspension lacks rebound damping and is not very tunable, (basically having a double barrel pogo stick). They will still soak up the bumps, but steering precision and control suffer.

I have nothing against good suspension, but if the bike is designed well and only ridden on smooth to moderately rough surfaces, it’s already there.

Cane Creek works good. My gf has it on her bike. I use a different brand on mine. They both do the same thing. We also have front fork suspension which adds a lot more comfort to the ride. Easy to adjust and basically no maintenence. She has another ebike with no fork suspension and bought this new bike for the added comfort, and added power. We use Schwalbe tires with pressure dropped 5lbs.and swept back Jones Hbars. We have some smooth streets and some bad rutted ones. We have some bike trails with roots heaving the trail up making it washboard in spots. I also ride on a non paved trail around a lake some days. With no suspension on a hard frame, that trail and others would be brutal and make for a real long day. Yea, give me comfy suspension on my bike, my escooter and car all day long.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

If someone thinks a heavy e-bike with cheap suspension is that comfortable, let them go on a group ride with gravel cyclists in the forest. These guys ride lightweight bikes (like, 20 lbs), no suspension, proper bike geometry/vertical compliance, low pressure 1.5-1.75" tyres. It is fun to see them zooming at 15-20 mph through the rough terrain while a rider of a heavy, poorly suspended e-bike is left in the dust...