Proper seats/saddles (especially for an e-bike)

[PSm]

If there were ever a time to listen to your wife, this would be it.

Perineal infections can be dangerous. If "gash like" is even remotely apt, get that sore healed up ASAP — preferably with professional help. Till then, continuing to ride on it will likely only make matters worse.

+1. Don’t be “that guy.” Listen to your wife and see a doctor.

 

[PSm]

Following up regarding the questions (and answers) specific to this discussion.
I, am 72 years old (in 2 months), 6'0", 222 lbs.
My Vado 5.0 is a Medium size. I had Large before, and came to find out that a Large was a misconfiguration for my sense of everything, and the Medium feels like a well fitting glove in every respect.
I looked at the settings of Stefan's seat, and adjusted mine to simulate to see if it makes a difference. I'll know in a day or two, as I did not ride today.
Previously, I had made many adjustments as with the assistance of a 'professional' LBS fitter, so who is to say what is right or wrong.
HOPEFULLY, it is only these tweaks that make a difference.
The Como handlebars make my riding much more enjoyable rather than leaning forward and putting my weight on the handlebars. I've used a Kinekt saddle seatpost for years, since the day they were invented. I also tried and dismissed the Redshift post.
Attached are before settings of the seat and after.....(not validated as of yet if they made any difference)
(1st 4 are before, last 2 are after)

The additional info is helpful. Given your age, weight and wanting to have your handlebars high compared to your seat, all are factors that may be against you.

I have heard that as you get older, your skin also gets thinner and more susceptible to damage? And not having your handlebars lower, puts that much more of your weight distribution on your saddle. Being able to have weight distributed on your saddle, handlebars and pedals, helps balance things out.

Maybe you just have to dial back your intensity, take breaks every ___ minutes, and understand that your body has limits. Does your fitness level allow you to often get off your saddle, and pedal standing? If yes, that could be a real help for longer rides.

And see a doctor, now!

 

[J.R.]

The 'after' pic shows a saddle that has been installed beyond the max limit on the rails, based on the pics I have found for that saddle. That is a dangerous position to put that saddle in. I would expect it to be at risk of snapping. If you need that much setback on the seat, then you have a fitment issue. Ordinarily that means a seatpost with more setback, or a stem with more length (yours is already 90mm) or a longer top tube on the frame or different sweep on the bars. I see you have the Kinekt stem. If you are bottoming that stem at all, be advised there is an extra-heavy spring and a special bump stop upgrade. That finally kept me from bottoming mine on the ones I have.

The only way I can see to keep all your expensive parts is to a) move the seat forward and b) get different handlebars with a reduced backsweep to give you back the 2 cm of reach you need to give up to put that saddle in a safe position. But that will have implications for your wrist angle.

Or just move the seat forward so it is within its safe adjustment range. Doing that, though, might increase leg chafing at the bottom of your pedal stroke. Possibly thats why you moved it so far back.

The angle of the saddle in the 'after' pic looks a lot more appropriate. In the 'before' pic it looked like what you see downhill riders use. IIRC that original upward angle definitely puts pressure on your perineum if you are riding/pedaling.

Good catch on the saddle rails.

He could change the stem to 120mm. They are available for both road bikes and MTB. I tried one, they really slow down the steering and offer a lot of turning torque for certain types of riding. It would add a little more than an inch over the 90mm. Fitting is a tricky thing; you change one thing, and it has a ripple effect of unknown consequences. Maybe the medium frame is just too small for a 6-foot-tall rider.

 

[Avg_Joe]

The 'after' pic shows a saddle that has been installed beyond the max limit on the rails, based on the pics I have found for that saddle. That is a dangerous position to put that saddle in. I would expect it to be at risk of snapping. If you need that much setback on the seat, then you have a fitment issue. Ordinarily that means a seatpost with more setback, or a stem with more length (yours is already 90mm) or a longer top tube on the frame or different sweep on the bars. I see you have the Kinekt stem. If you are bottoming that stem at all, be advised there is an extra-heavy spring and a special bump stop upgrade. That finally kept me from bottoming mine on the ones I have.

The only way I can see to keep all your expensive parts is to a) move the seat forward and b) get different handlebars with a reduced backsweep to give you back the 2 cm of reach you need to give up to put that saddle in a safe position. But that will have implications for your wrist angle.

Or just move the seat forward so it is within its safe adjustment range. Doing that, though, might increase leg chafing at the bottom of your pedal stroke. Possibly thats why you moved it so far back.

The angle of the saddle in the 'after' pic looks a lot more appropriate. In the 'before' pic it looked like what you see downhill riders use. IIRC that original upward angle definitely puts pressure on your perineum if you are riding/pedaling.

After studying the photos, the very upright position with the drastic seat offset == yeow, easy to see why it's so painful.

I'm no pro, but after fiddling with my Vado for ~10 months now, imho you have completely munged the bike - you have turned it into an upright riding position with a fitness geometry. I too tried that and immediately realized how uncomfortable it is. Sitting back and upright, pedals/BB somewhat forward of your position - even with a comfortable reach, the position is awful for efficiency and overall comfort.

In addition to what @m@Robertson has shared, let me share an anecdote. I picked up yet another regular bike this weekend - Sirrus X 2.0 in size L. After a trial run, I discovered that most of my weight was on the handlebar grips. While riding, I sensed I could have a wooden or steel saddle and it wouldn't matter (except for thigh chafing) due to weight distribution - it was completely comfortable on my backside since there was so little weight on the saddle. However, my wrists and shoulders were aching.

I then swapped on my Vado handlebars, which have more rise and backsweep - placing more weight on the saddle and much less on the handlebars/grips as it pushed me back & more upright. Then the saddle was very uncomfortable (very low-end saddle comes on the Sirrus X 2.0). Swapped in the saddle from my Vado, fiddled with angle and setback, pivoted the handlebars a bit forward, and the fit, comfort, and "rideability" are incredible. I am in a somewhat "athletic" position with excellent weight distribution, which is the intent of the bike.

Your position is the exact opposite - looks as if all of your weight is on the saddle and the handlebars are there just to hang on and steer, while you churn against and on the saddle.

If I may, in addition to the above, I would suggest fiddling:

• Pivot your handlebars a bit more forward so you are leaning in a bit and adjust saddle angle.
• Try the stock seatpost - not for compliance, but solely for position.
• Heed the words of Mr. Robertson by trying different saddle positions.

 

[smorgasbord]

Did that, no-go

Lots of good info here, but to pile on:

With a "gash like sore" near your crotch, there's no way you can get fitted on a bicycle. That has to heal first. Period. Your problem isn't your seat, it's your gash like sore.

Here's a diagram:

1. You should be going for the "Recreational Cyclist" position.
2. Notice the Trunk Angle is larger than for the Road Cyclist. Moving your seat back makes this angle smaller! You want at least 40º and maybe even up to 80º. The Road Cyclist on the right has a trunk angle of only 30º to 40º - you don't want that!!!!
3. Note the front of the knee lines up with the pedal's axle when the crank is horizontal. One way to measure this is to get a string and hang a couple of washers on one end. Drape the string over your bare knee (no pants) and let the washers dangle to the side of the pedal. Adjust seat fore-aft position until the string bisects the pedal axle.
4. Later on, you may find that you want to move the seat a small bit forward or back. But, small amounts here.
5. Keep your seat level!! Just seeing some of the nose up pictures in this thread pains me.
6. The seat should not be so high that your legs straightens out. I personally feel that your hips should not move up and down as you pedal. One professional bike fitter says that slightly lower than ideal is better than slightly higher. I agree. This bike fit page says for the pedal at the lowest position (crank vertical) your knee angle should be between 35º and 45).
7. Once your seat is positioned for your body relative to the pedals, then you can figure out where the handlebars should be. This is determined by your Shoulder Angle, which should be between 80º and 90º. Even the Road Cyclist doesn't go more than 100º - you should be well under that.
8. Once you have your body in the right position, you can then measure your sit bones and add the appropriate (probably 3cm) measurement and choose a saddle based on that. Here's a fit link for that.

EDIT: Here's another good page on bike fit that will take you step-by-step through the process, with pictures:

How to set a comfortable bicycle riding position | BikeGremlin US

Setting up riding position (bicycle fitting) - how to set saddle height, for-aft position… Adjusting bicycle to suit the rider, not the other way round.

bike.bikegremlin.com

Good luck!

 

[mschwett]

Lots of good info here, but to pile on:

…

1. Keep your seat level!! Just seeing some of the nose up pictures in this thread pains me.

great post with lots of fantastic advice! WHY O WHY do people have saddles that point up?!?!?

 

[ReedM]

great post with lots of fantastic advice! WHY O WHY do people have saddles that point up?!?!?

When I first started road biking, I had a similar saddle sore problem. First, I worked with my urologist to select a proper saddle. We settled on the Selle SMP brand. I have several, and they work well.
Second, I went to my dermatologist. He saw the results of minor abrasion, and said rest it until it was healed. Mine took just a few days, and I walked instead. The other thing the dermatologist recommended was a daily application of zinc oxide ointment. I use Maximum Strength Desitin which has 40% zinc oxide. It is used on babies for diaper rash, and works very well as a saddle sore preventative. It toughens the skin.
Also, I find Assos Chamois Cream as good as any and better than most.. A modestly thick chamois in your biking shorts will help smooth out any rugosities in the saddle.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm no pro, but after fiddling with my Vado for ~10 months now, imho you have completely munged the bike - you have turned it into an upright riding position with a fitness geometry. I too tried that and immediately realized how uncomfortable it is. Sitting back and upright, pedals/BB somewhat forward of your position - even with a comfortable reach, the position is awful for efficiency and overall comfort.

Cannot agree more.

Body weight spread among the arms, legs, and butt. The saddle is level, only it has a "valley" for the perineal area. Note: I currently weigh 214 lbs at 5'8".

Stem riser and comfortable handlebars make almost all the body weight shifted onto the butt.

Also, notice a big difference in "Reach" between these two pictures.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I hate I ahvegw a tiny bit of up tilt on my seat. it causes pain but without it I am always feeling like I am falling into my bars and sliding. thats why I need a really flat seal end to end. so if its flat in back its not digging in in front.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My favorite saddle is from an Aventon level which is currently on my Biktrix Monte Capro I believe it's called touring saddle I also installed handlebar stem riser 2 inches for upright position.

Not saying much, these saddles do not look as ones helping the pedalling. Again, the whole body weight is shifted onto the rider's butt. Good for a 5-10 mile ride maybe.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

a sub par ebike

If I ride a sub par e-bike then the OP could feel insulted a little bit

It probably comes with $200 saddle.

Ask the OP what his saddle cost

This photo comes from the time I could manage my riding position properly, only the "comfortable" saddle was too wide. I made an experiment and restored the stock Bridge Sport saddle to Vado SL. Now, I 'm making a Gran Fondo (80 mi) and the butt is the least of my worries...

A more current photo.

 

[Allan47.7339]

I've been "professionally" fit by the LBS for proper tilt, height, etc., and of course one seat fells better (or different) from the next, but alas, after 20-30 miles, I'm sore and red.

When you say "professionally fit" does that mean they put you and your bike on trainer and watch you pedal? Did they measure, interview, check angles and watch you pedal while you were on the bike? A professional fit takes a hour or more. Usually they will recommend a follow up after riding a few times . I was trying all of the potions, lotions and saddles trying to solve saddle sores. Completely solved after physical therapist bike fit.

 

[Marcela]

You need to hang a sling off a pole that is attached to the rear axle that holds your ass. Be kind of like an antigravity seat

Or get a trike.

 

[GuruUno]

Cannot agree more.

View attachment 151480
Body weight spread among the arms, legs, and butt. The saddle is level, only it has a "valley" for the perineal area. Note: I currently weigh 214 lbs at 5'8".

View attachment 151471
Stem riser and comfortable handlebars make almost all the body weight shifted onto the butt.

Also, notice a big difference in "Reach" between these two pictures.

So, out of curiosity, do I take a 'level' and raise my seat to mimic the photo above (as referenced 'level'), and not have control of when stopped (placing feet/foot on ground when coming to or at a stop)?

 

[6zfshdb]

For the last 5-6 years, I've purchase, tried, have, returned, experimented and do not seem to have the capability to get a proper fitting saddle for the many e-bikes I've had, most currently the Vado 5.0.
I probably have at least 6 or 7 in the garage and the basement.
The most recent one (still using) is the Specialized Power Pro with Mirror, replacing the S-Works Power with Mirror (which snapped).
I've tried Selle Italia, Brooks, Bikeroo, Bontrager, the OEM saddles that come with the bikes, and more.
I've even tried those where you sit on the cardboard to get the proper sit bones measurement.
Nothing seems to work, after a break-in period.
The problem is I have developed a long gash like sore. My wife warns me that if it gets infected, I'll be in worse condition.
I've applied Mupirocin, Neosporin, Diaper Rash creme, hemorrhoid cream, Chamois Butt'r, and I wear padded bike shorts. If I don't ride for 3-4-5 days, it significantly improves, but I'm feeling a bit restricted for those long rides, concerned I'll do damage that will put me out of riding for a lengthy time.
I've been "professionally" fit by the LBS for proper tilt, height, etc., and of course one seat fells better (or different) from the next, but alas, after 20-30 miles, I'm sore and red.
I cannot photograph and post because it's very close to the crotch area lower inside buttocks. Right side is worse than the left.
So, how have YOU dealt with a similar problem? Has anyone found the magic bullet?

I've suffered major bike seat related crotch discomfort for over 30 years. It got so bad that my doctor advised me to give up riding. I tried most of what you mention above, with little relief. Over the years, I've settled on a combination of products that have me in the saddle for 80+ mile rides with very little discomfort.

Keep in mind that everyone's anatomy is different and what works for one may not for someone else. That being said, the single biggest improvement came from switching to a noseless saddle. I tried 8 different models and found the Spiderflex to work best for me:

Ergonomic Bike Seats | Spiderflex.com

Product: Ergonomic Bicycle Seat, Cost: $129.99USD. Comfortable ergonomic bike seats for all bike riders.

www.spiderflex.com

Your sit bones are the only parts of your body that touch the saddle. There are no other contact points to cause chaffing. There is a tradeoff though. You do loose some side to side control of the bike since you can't use your hips to steer. It's like sitting on a barstool rather than a split rail fence and requires some adjustment to your riding style. For me, the compromise was worth it since the alternative was to give up riding.

I gained an additional level of comfort by using a quality suspension seatpost. I alternate between the Kinekt 2.0, Redshift and Thudbuster LT posts depending on the type of ride planned.

Padded bike shorts also help. Through experimentation, I found the padded undershorts work best for me. I tried several brands and am now using these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MTE6QRG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1&psc=1

Please note, I'm not endorsing these products since they may not work for everyone. I'm simply noting what works best for me at this point in time.

I wish you the best of luck finding a solution to your problem.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Padded bike shorts also help. Through experimentation, I found the padded undershorts work best for me. I tried several brands and am now using these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MTE6QRG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1&psc=1

Definitely going to try those padded undershorts. I like to ride in cargo pants or shorts, and they appeal to my inner baboon.

 

[J.R.]

Set correctly you might barely touch the ground with your toes of one foot. Personally I leave the saddle when stopped.

Quick and easy guide. This will give you an efficient pedal stroke and it will protect your joints.

 

[McCorby]

So, out of curiosity, do I take a 'level' and raise my seat to mimic the photo above (as referenced 'level'), and not have control of when stopped (placing feet/foot on ground when coming to or at a stop)?

Shouldn’t you be off the seat when stopped? You aren’t riding a beach cruiser. Seems like you may have bought the wrong style of bike for your needs?

 

[mschwett]

So, out of curiosity, do I take a 'level' and raise my seat to mimic the photo above (as referenced 'level'), and not have control of when stopped (placing feet/foot on ground when coming to or at a stop)?

what works for someone else may not / probably won’t work for you. the fit starts with the relationship of the pedal/foot, leg, hip, bottom, with riding style/goal taken into account. for maximum power it is not possible to touch the ground without leaning the bike or getting off the saddle, but that likely isn’t your goal. the position of the bars is much more variable and depends on a lot of factors.

i think the best course of action here is to let yourself heal (i know it sucks to not ride!) and then go see another bike fitter. either bring a couple saddles of significantly different type or go to a fitter that had a saddle library. if you have the various parts that changed the bar configuration from stock to current, bring those too. make sure to communicate with the fitter in advance about the type of bike and your goals. most bike fitters work with road cyclists who ride pretty long distances at high speed on drop bar bikes.

 

[Marcela]

So, out of curiosity, do I take a 'level' and raise my seat to mimic the photo above (as referenced 'level'), and not have control of when stopped (placing feet/foot on ground when coming to or at a stop)?

I use a digital level to adjust my seat. One degree makes a difference, that way you know when or how much you have adjusted it. And if you suspect something has moved you can put the level on it and check. I like my seat height to be where I can sit on it and be on my tip toes comfortably at a stop, one foot on the ground and the other on a pedal, ready to speed away.