Pinion Motor.Gearbox.Unit (MGU)

[Rás Cnoic]

I was saying Vado SL was an e-bike for a healthy person and the battery charge was too small for my needs. Today the total nominal capacity of all SL batteries I own is 960 Wh. Did I prove my points of the past? I was saying Vado SL was not for me but was saying that e-bike had its market.

Also, I'm not winning races. I'm completing them. Not races but a single race. Not 500k but 250 km. With 74 km ridden on a Vado 6.0, otherwise I would have no time to recharge all SL batteries.

There is an old joke about Soviet Russia:
– Reportedly, they give away cars in Leningrad?
– First of all, it is not Leningrad but Moscow. Secondly, it is not cars but bicycles. Thirdly, they do not give them away. They steal them.


People here are so enthusiastic about Pinion MGU. When any of you buys a MGU e-bike, I will ask for experiences. Before, it is all marketing.

True. Though my bank balance is not looking healthy for any ebike right now. With this first version of the MGU I do think if I had to commute to say Exeter, my nearest city, 24 miles away then I would be seriously looking at one of these. And that's where this will sell well. For emtbs and the complicated infrastructure of suspension, swapping parts in and out and general tinkering that mountain bikers love to do, I'm not sure how the MGU will go down. Think that's where having it on a well known mass market brand will be needed to really take off. But lets see.

If I won the lottery I'd be over at Eurobike like a shot, trying out this MGU and the new Bosch SX and all the funky and odd bikes you get at trade fairs like this!

Your Vado SL long rides are an inspiration Stefan! You may not have officially won that Gravel race but we all know you were just going easy on them!

Stefan, we're not getting carried away.

I've been hoping for this since 2018 , I even delayed buying my first emtb ( the giant pwx) , because I'd seen a zerode with pinion drive, and I knew an engineer working with another company that produced gearboxes for ebikes.....I almost gave up a couple of years back , so I bought the levo sl ,

At the time, it was looking like the mainstream were chasing either whatevers or weight. But I've kept watching, and the ONLY reason I'd not recently upgraded my levo sl is because I'd heard rumours this was close.

So I'm keeping my old levo sl, watching for the next 6/12 months, and waiting for achance to try a few out on the trail. I firmly believe in the future of an integrated motor / gearbox - dump the derailleur . ESPECIALY for emtb's - every pinion / zerode rider I meet raves about the bike - not just the reliable gearbox, but how much better the rear end rides. Removing 600 - 900 gms of unsprung weight - that's worth $thousands. Add in extra reliability AND the ability to change gears without spinning cranks - these are a no brainer .

I don't expect them to be mainstream for a few years, but I hope there is a reasonably sorted option by next year

plus as Ravi pointed out Brose have a prototype MGU at Eurobike too. Among others. I would guess SRAM & Shimano are keeping an eye on all this. Maybe 2018 was the trigger and there are a number of developments underway since then.

 

[PDoz]

plus as Ravi pointed out Brose have a prototype MGU at Eurobike too. Among others. I would guess SRAM & Shimano are keeping an eye on all this. Maybe 2018 was the trigger and there are a number of developments underway since then.

Shimano got lost down the internal derailleur route - trying to run a chain across sprockets inside the motor. Yeah, no thanks - that loses the benefit of being able to change gears whilst stationary.

Sram invested heavily in trying to make the derailleur strong enough to not need replacing - starting with their universal hanger, and now their universally expensive electric shifting bank balance destroying units can take the weight of rider but still sit out collecting dirt

I suspect these belong in that niche where quality and longevity are valued

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I hope there is a reasonably sorted option by next year

And it has to be exported to Australia
In one year, I'm going to revisit this thread and either concede defeat or will maliciously ask who of you have owned a Pinion MGU and what experiences have been

 

[PDoz]

And it has to be exported to Australia
In one year, I'm going to revisit this thread and either concede defeat or will maliciously ask who of you have owned a Pinion MGU and what experiences have been

I suspect you'll get more information on Robs forum , but my plan is to watch for the first 6 months , then decide if I buy this gen or wait for the next.

Pretty much the same as I did with my levo sl - I knew it was the right bike for me, but didn't want to repeat the beta testing experiences of my 2018 giant. Once the sl's had a reputation for reliability, I bit the bullet and haven't looked back. I'm certain that a mid drive gearbox is in my future, but I'm not certain when

 

[PDoz]

And it has to be exported to Australia
In one year, I'm going to revisit this thread and either concede defeat or will maliciously ask who of you have owned a Pinion MGU and what experiences have been

Stefan, this should make you happy.

Brose version

Caution: High voltage! – Brose present the eagerly awaited Drive³ Peak motor in the 48V system and a concept motor with an integrated stepless drivetrain

The new Brose Drive System, featuring the new Drive³ Peak motor and Concept Drive motor, now operates at a voltage of 48V. What does this mean for you?

ebike-mtb.com

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan, this should make you happy.

Brose version

Caution: High voltage! – Brose present the eagerly awaited Drive³ Peak motor in the 48V system and a concept motor with an integrated stepless drivetrain

The new Brose Drive System, featuring the new Drive³ Peak motor and Concept Drive motor, now operates at a voltage of 48V. What does this mean for you?

ebike-mtb.com

PDoz,

Whenever I see a new e-bike invention or an unusual e-bike, I always ask myself: 'Will it me make a better cyclist?' Will it?

Will it help me riding a 3-day tour of 500+ kilometres? Will I be able to carry that e-bike across a river? The two e-bikes I own enable me to do that. Why should I need an MGU?

 

[Gionnirocket]

PDoz,

Whenever I see a new e-bike invention or an unusual e-bike, I always ask myself: 'Will it me make a better cyclist?' Will it?

Will it help me riding a 3-day tour of 500+ kilometres? Will I be able to carry that e-bike across a river? The two e-bikes I own enable me to do that. Why should I need an MGU?

And yes of course what Stefan finds important and needs is what the rest of us should base our needs on and in what direction the industry should proceed.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

And yes of course what Stefan finds important and needs is what the rest of us should base our needs on and what direction the industry should proceed to

Said a non-rider

Teasing you Johnny Racket Do that yourself. Without the throttle It could be on an MGU e-bike if you ever could afford it

 

[teskow]

I believe the motor & gearbox in one unit is the future for ebikes. It should be cheaper to build motor & transmission in one unit than two separate unites.

 

[m@Robertson]

Get into a time machine and transport yourself back 15 years.
Now change the question below to "Why would I ever need an ebike instead of a bicycle?" and read the answer:

I always ask myself: 'Will it me make a better cyclist?' Will it?

Will it help me riding a 3-day tour of 500+ kilometres? Will I be able to carry that e-bike across a river? The two e-bikes I own enable me to do that. Why should I need an MGU?

Get back in the time machine and transport yourself back 100 years. Now change the question to "Why would I ever need a derailleur instead of a fixed gear?"

 

[Gionnirocket]

Get into a time machine and transport yourself back 15 years.
Now change the question below to "Why would I ever need an ebike instead of a bicycle?" and read the answer:

Get back in the time machine and transport yourself back 100 years. Now change the question to "Why would I ever need a derailleur instead of a fixed gear?"

The narrow vision of the obtuse has always been an obstacle to progress.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Get back in the time machine and transport yourself back 100 years. Now change the question to "Why would I ever need a derailleur instead of a fixed gear?"

U ride tubeless?

 

[Gionnirocket]

U ride tubeless?

Yes that's on the same level as the cutting edge technology being discussed. You're so ridiculous, no derogatory remark required

 

[m@Robertson]

U ride tubeless?

I don't see the point of the question but yes, on about half of my bikes. The nonessential ones mostly (two e-mtbs and one longtail bikepacker).

 

[dynamic]

This one seems pretty exciting. My one comment at this time: People need to separate implementation from concept. Conceptually, this is brilliant. Implementation could be another thing. If this thing ends up reliable, it will be fantastic. Time will tell.

Will it make riding better? For those that want crazy gear range automatic shifting, yes. For those that want less maintenance, yes. If those things aren't important or desired, than this probably isn't worth the money. Either way, it should push the industry forward. And that is good for everyone.

 

[mschwett]

I have a few questions that may be answered elsewhere. What is the weight of the system compared to a similar geared mid drive motor plus a pinion (which obviously you couldn’t combine) or a rohloff? what are the drivetrain losses with the motor off while pedaling?

I really wanted a pinion e-bike until I added up the weights and looked at the efficiency numbers. For my purposes 35lb is a very heavy bike, and it absolutely must not induce a ton of additional drag when the assist is turned off.

in theory, weight, cost, volume, and complexity should be saved by combining the gearboxes. time will tell if that’s also the reality!

 

[Jean-Paul B.]

PDoz,

Whenever I see a new e-bike invention or an unusual e-bike, I always ask myself: 'Will it me make a better cyclist?' Will it?

Will it help me riding a 3-day tour of 500+ kilometres? Will I be able to carry that e-bike across a river? The two e-bikes I own enable me to do that. Why should I need an MGU?

Hello Stefan,
If I may: excellent question, and I have the same as an amateur photographer each time a new model is issued.
New sensor, new processor, better high ISO, better AF, better stabilization, viewfinder, weight, battery capacity and so on, and so on.
As you see, decision taking process is pretty close to ebikes : what are the important criterias for my personal practice ?
Considering this (landscape, street, urban, travel) some technology improvements have helped me become a better photographer, and have increased my pleasure of taking pictures.
As I don't practice wildlife and sports photography, I don't care that much about AF and continuous shooting improvements.
But I do care about High ISO, stab and definition.
Same for bikes ;-)
No universal answer.
Your key criteria and choices are not mine, since what we expect a bike to deliver is totally different.
But I clearly expect the technology improvements behind my bike change project to increase my pleasure of biking.
Hence, I keep an eye on Pinion

Jean-Paul

 

[scrambler]

I guess you must not have lived long enough to know better...

 

[Gionnirocket]

Well at this pace... I don't know how much longer I've got
But honestly I find your input some of the most helpful on here so I do know the difference.. so you can let that be some insight into my judgdment of character.
And since I'm not the only one to come to a similar conclusion on the aforementioned... I have no problem helping him reap what he has sown and find it much more entertaining to return the favor. I understand the ol' turn the other cheek... but not for me in all cases and especially not with him

 

[Johnny]

Looks great. Always liked pinion and this is a game changer.