Pinion Motor.Gearbox.Unit (MGU)

[Kilowatt]

Motorbikes have had integrated gearsboxes for over 100 years, is about time ebikes did same. This is future of ebikes and will be my next upgrade in few years. Wont be sad see back of chain maintenance.

Agree 100%. All the arguments citing the complexity are just not persuasive. This stuff is nothing compared to any modern hybrid car.

 

[teskow]

Most of our ebike motors are already filled with a bunch of gears so a few more for a transmission seems very feasible to me.

 

[mschwett]

Most of our ebike motors are already filled with a bunch of gears so a few more for a transmission seems very feasible to me.

all true, but the gears are going the opposite direction - turning a 5000 RPM motor into a 0-400 RPM wheel, vs a bicycle transmission which turns a 0-80 RPM pair of legs into a 0-400RPM wheel…

i’m sure there are savings here in having fewer housings and so on, but i’m not sure there’s any reduction in gear interfaces, so to speak?

it would be interesting to compare the weight and frictional losses of a state of the art mid drive motor like a TQ plus a rohloff against the weight of one of these integrated units plus a standard rear hub.

 

[TrevorB]

all true, but the gears are going the opposite direction - turning a 5000 RPM motor into a 0-400 RPM wheel, vs a bicycle transmission which turns a 0-80 RPM pair of legs into a 0-400RPM wheel…

i’m sure there are savings here in having fewer housings and so on, but i’m not sure there’s any reduction in gear interfaces, so to speak?

it would be interesting to compare the weight and frictional losses of a state of the art mid drive motor like a TQ plus a rohloff against the weight of one of these integrated units plus a standard rear hub.

Probably no weight or friction gains or losses. Big advantage is simple low mass rear wheel which is plus for FS MTB with low maintenance belt drive added bonus.
Considerable savings to be had with drivetrain maintenance over life of bike. eMTBs chew through chains and cassettes, thanks to extra power and dirt.

Owning 2nd rear wheel with road tire is also lot cheaper as no need for 2nd cassette.

 

[mschwett]

Probably no weight or friction gains or losses. Big advantage is simple low mass rear wheel which is plus for FS MTB with low maintenance belt drive added bonus.
Considerable savings to be had with drivetrain maintenance over life of bike. eMTBs chew through chains and cassettes, thanks to extra power and dirt.

Owning 2nd rear wheel with road tire is also lot cheaper as no need for 2nd cassette.

it’s hard to beat a derailleur and cassette for efficiency and low mass. i haven’t seen many serious MTBs with IGH or pinion. is that a thing?

 

[fooferdoggie]

it’s hard to beat a derailleur and cassette for efficiency and low mass. i haven’t seen many serious MTBs with IGH or pinion. is that a thing?

plus versatility and cost. plus its easy to customize the setup.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

it’s hard to beat a derailleur and cassette for efficiency and low mass. i haven’t seen many serious MTBs with IGH or pinion. is that a thing?

That is largely because a Rohloff or Pinion cost about an extra pound. And it is impossible to shift with torque on the pedals which makes closed gearboxes a poor choice for delicate steep uphill work were you need to keep momentum.

On the other side, the low maintenance and indestructibility of closed gearboxes make them good choices for most other non-competitive cycling applications.

 

[MinnBobber]

This seems like a great idea for E MTBs.
Getting rid of chain/cassette and having a carbon fiber belt is huge.
E Mtn bikes need a mid drive so this awesome .

What is the % gear range as that needs to be there?

For speed pedelecs, I still love a properly done rear hub direct drive
And love ditching the chain/ cassette for a Pinion, not the MGU, but an E 12 speed Pinion

One of the big advantages of an Ebike is that a few more ounces are no big deal!

 

[Mr. Coffee]

12-speed pinions have a gear range of around 600%.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

One of the big advantages of an Ebike is that a few more ounces are no big deal!

Unless your e-bike is lightweight and you start thinking how to remove a few ounces off your e-bike to get from 37 down to 33 lbs

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Unless your e-bike is lightweight and you start thinking how to remove a few ounces off your e-bike to get from 37 down to 33 lbs

My P.18 acoustic bike (Co-Motion Siskiyou) with racks and fenders weighs 17kg. So it is a heavy beast to push around,

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My P.18 acoustic bike (Co-Motion Siskiyou) with racks and fenders weighs 17kg. So it is a heavy beast to push around,

I understand. That is the weight of my Vado SL in the current configuration. I'm not crazy about reducing the weight but removing the last fender remaining on the e-bike and taking the rear rack off would be a substantial weight saving. (If I went mad then I would go for a carbon fork, carbon handlebars, carbon seatpost, and carbon wheels set up tubeless) I actually am jealous when I can see people riding 9-10 kg traditional bikes but unfortunately that's not for me anymore.

 

[mschwett]

This seems like a great idea for E MTBs.
Getting rid of chain/cassette and having a carbon fiber belt is huge.
E Mtn bikes need a mid drive so this awesome .

What is the % gear range as that needs to be there?

For speed pedelecs, I still love a properly done rear hub direct drive
And love ditching the chain/ cassette for a Pinion, not the MGU, but an E 12 speed Pinion

One of the big advantages of an Ebike is that a few more ounces are no big deal!

idk, the extra weight is a big deal to me, especially with an MTB, since so much of the “work” in serious mountain biking is body english on the bike, for which the motor and battery and pinion are literally dead weight, they’re also low down, so that’s good!

dirt bikes (small motorcycles with off road tires) are fun, but for me it’s not a bike past the weight that i can pedal it uphill myself (if slowly) and toss it around on the trails. the 4.1 kilo weight of the MGU really isn’t bad, it’s well located, and not rotating. make a lower power, lighter version of this (let’s say 3.5 kilos) throw in a 320 wh, 1.8kg battery, subtract the weight of the cassette and derailleur (around .6kg?) and you ought to be able to produce an eMTB weighing only around 4.7kg more than a normal MTB. maybe 16.5kg is possible, just one kg lighter than a “conventional” s-works turbo levo SL!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Any news of any big e-bike manufacturer to adopt Pinion MGU?

 

[Dewey]

The Pinion website lists models using Pinion MGU

 

[Mr. Coffee]

The Pinion website lists models using Pinion MGU

That Tout Terrain e-bike checks all of my boxes. Finally. Tout Terrain is also a reputable bicycle maker with about 18 years in the business and knows how to build all terrain touring bikes.

Although I'd rather have drop bars to be honest...

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Started a new thread with this, forgetting about this old one so here's my post again.

On the EMBN channel Steve Jones puts the Simplon Rapcon PMax with the Pinion E1.12 Gearbox motor through it's paces:

 

[scrambler]

Great video, it sounds like they worked out the few quirks of the early version.
Very Exciting!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Anyone can remember Betamax VCRs?
I, for one, would be interested whether @Ravi Kempaiah is ready to build a Pinion MGU ZEN e-bike.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Anyone remember... the 21st night in September?