Pace 500 - be careful at start, especially when also turning

[arcom]

In regards to the turns, I can't imagine a scenario, where he would make a turn without hitting the brake, so I think he's okay there.....

 

[Tom@WashDC]

When I first started riding my Level, the quick start in PAS 1 seemed to me to be a poor design and once or twice I almost hit a parked car in the parking lot as the bike jumped forward in PAS 1. Now, I don't even notice it. My clever primate brain has adapted to the system, just like it did long ago when I graduated from a tricycle to a two wheeled bike, and eventually after a few days, I was riding my two wheeler with my subconscious mind! Remember those days, learning to ride a bike, when you thought you would have to concentrate with all your might just to keep the damn bike from falling over? It's like that.

Now the Aventon system seems normal to me and presents no problems, my subconscious primate mind has mastered the challenge.

My wife was so taken aback by quick start that she wouldn't use the PAS system at all, she only used the throttle. Now she has become accustomed to it and it presents no problems for her also. Now we usually leave it in PAS 2 or 3 at all times.

That being said, you do have to use caution when you let a first time user try out your bike.

 

[acsmd]

When I first started riding my Level, the quick start in PAS 1 seemed to me to be a poor design and once or twice I almost hit a parked car in the parking lot as the bike jumped forward in PAS 1. Now, I don't even notice it. My clever primate brain has adapted to the system, just like it did long ago when I graduated from a tricycle to a two wheeled bike, and eventually after a few days, I was riding my two wheeler with my subconscious mind! Remember those days, learning to ride a bike, when you thought you would have to concentrate with all your might just to keep the damn bike from falling over? It's like that.

Now the Aventon system seems normal to me and presents no problems, my subconscious primate mind has mastered the challenge.

My wife was so taken aback by quick start that she wouldn't use the PAS system at all, she only used the throttle. Now she has become accustomed to it and it presents no problems for her also. Now we usually leave it in PAS 2 or 3 at all times.

That being said, you do have to use caution when you let a first time user try out your bike.

Awesome - that's what I hope happens with my dad. I'm going to ride it and see what we're working with so I can help him with expectations.

 

[BobW]

New E bike rider. I think this is just a small matter of learning to ride the bike. Even with a very light rider the bike has 1/4 the horsepower to weight ratio of an original 40 horsepower VW Beetle. This is not rocket acceleration and the bike does have brakes. In fact, lightly dragging either brake disables the motor so for tight slow speed maneuvering I just pull the brake enough to disable the motor but not enough to actuate the caliper.

 

[Waterman480]

Unfortunately, it has cost them a sale. My wife was looking at a Pace 500 or a Level. She decided to wait until I received my Level to decide, as she had only briefly tested the Pace 500. The high rate of acceleration combined with the lowest PAS setting still going 12-13 mph, caused her to decide that neither model was for her. Previous to the Aventon, she had tried a few other bikes. None of them scared her like the Aventon did. They really need to rethink the acceleration curve and PAS setpoint span.

 

[BobW]

Lots of other bikes out there. Unless money is no object, every product has compromises.

 

[BobW]

Lots of other bikes out there. Unless money is no object, every product has compromises. BTW, if a person has had this bike for more than 20 miles, how are you being surprised by the motor assist? It does it pretty predictably.

 

[phoenixtoohot]

I see that you are both new to the forum, welcome. This issue has been widely discussed on this forum and others. The rapid acceleration is okay with some and dangerous to others. Aventon knows about this but for some reason will not change it. The dangerous part is for those that are not aware of it, pedaling in tight turns, and suddenly finding themselves on the ground. Almost any hub drive can surprise you in a slow, very tight turn, when you begin pedaling, but the Aventon's in particular exacerbate the problem because of the very rapid acceleration. I guard against it on my two electric bikes, by lightly modulating the throttle in tight turns when I'm slowing to0 much, but alas, Aventon's throttle may not work in this situation. Anyway, welcome to the forum, but suggest you review all the other posts that have been made about this issue. It seems that about half learn to live with it and half it's a deal killer. For me, I loved everything about Aventon, but it was a deal killer for me.

 

[BobW]

I read this entire thread. I have also read other discussions on other forums when I was researching e-bikes. I'm not sure why you assume that my opinion is an uninformed one. I guess maybe it's semantics. I still don't understand how a bike you have been riding for months can surprise you. The behavior is entirely predictable. It is also entirely preventable via the brake switch as several have mentioned. There is a learning curve. It will surprise you at first. Good sense would suggest some familiarization rides in a safe area. I guess we all have different frames of reference too. I wouldn't characterize anything this bike does as rapid acceleration. Maybe Aventon isn't changing it for design reasons and maybe the people for which it is a "deal killer" is actually pretty small. What data do you have that shows that 50% of Aventon riders don't like their bikes?

 

[phoenixtoohot]

Bob, I did not say 50 % don't like their bikes. I said that probably 50% who were considering the Aventon, the rapid accel was a deal killer. They are fine bikes, among the biest at the price point, and most owners are very happy with them. And yes, if you are aware of the rapid accel, you will generally avoid any issues, even in slow speed, tight turns. But, in a panic situation, we revert to our old habits, which is to pedal slightly when you are falling into a tight turn. Don't want to start an argument with you as this has been discussed infinitum. Enjoy your ride and welcome to the EBR forum. Lot's of fine people here.

 

[UphillBothWays]

I have the Pace 500 step through, and have 800 miles on it. This was my first EBike, and I did a LOT of research before buying it. I even have a very lengthy post on here about why I chose this bike over a few others. I tested the Gazelle, Electric Bike, Rad, Murph, Pedego, and one or two others. Now, that I am VERY familiar with it, I can tell you what I like and what I don't like about it.

CONS: Many times, when out riding, I find I need to stop, let a passerby go, or have some other reason that I have to come to a full stop while climbing a steep hill. Maybe I am crossing the street, or at a stop, where cars are turning. It is SO VERY difficult to pedal even half a rotation going uphill to get the PAS or throttle to kick in. This is the #1 reason I would not buy this bike again. I know my bike, and with 800 miles, know what I am doing. The is not about getting used to it. Yes, it might be easier if I were in the lowest gear, but I am never in the lower gears. I like to have the PAS in 1 or 2, and am always up to 6-8 gear, so I get a workout. I cannot downshift if I am not pedaling, so that isn't an option. I purchased an bike so I wouldn't have to walk my bike up these steep hills, and many times I find myself doing just that.
Second reason, is that sometimes when I am on a crowed path, (There are many more people out biking and walking during COVID) I need to go slower, while still being in PAS 1, and I cannot go as slow as is necessary. The only way to go slower is to turn off the PAS, and do without it, and use the throttle which goes at an uneven speed. So, I am in PAS1, braking, and at the same time, and it's annoying.
Crossing the street at the corner where there is a stop light in PAS 1, I sometimes feel I am taking off too fast, as the curb on the other side comes up quickly, and my speed makes it that much more difficult to control the bike. (I am on sidewalks whenever possible). If PAS was 8 mph, it would be much easier to control.
It's not a deal breaker, but I cannot get my battery off either.

PROS: I do not miss a suspension fork, as I mostly ride on paved roads and paths. It's not a mountain bike. I have not had any mishaps, and am very careful around turns. I like the lighter weight of the bike. Not only can I lift it into my car, but I can pedal it as I often do, without any PAS, which is something I really wanted.
I have not had any issues with spokes breaking, or controller issues either. I like the option of having a throttle, so would not want to give that up. I think mid motor is better than rear motor, as I sometimes carry things on the back of my bike, and the weight is more evenly distributed. For the price, it's a great bike, but I wish it had an option of immediate throttle or PAS, and lower speed PAS 1.

 

[Bigal1463]

For the sake of an argument. As been often said in this forum, there is no such thing as a perfect bike, or anything in life for that that matter. Let me start by saying that I am now a third year owner of the Pace 500. When first starting out, I did not like the sudden surge in PAS1 and did not like the fact that I had to pedal 1/4 turn to activate it and also with the throttle. In a short period of time, I’ve learned to get around these shortcomings and when I compared it to many bikes out there, I wouldn’t trade it. First of all, everyone, before taking your bike out on the path or road should go to an open field or area with little traffic and learn about your bikes capabilities and it’s shortcomings. Understand them, get used to them, practice. Know about the different PAS, throttle, gearing and braking. Go to a hill and understand how to start up. I think that you should get used to gearing down to about one or two before come to a stop. This way when starting up, pedaling is easy. Try to make your most of mistakes while learning. It won’t take very long, and you will have a good feel for your bike and give you the confidence you should have before starting out. Never go out on a blind. This advice is very basic and should not be overlooked. In the end you will know your bike and appreciate it.
Good luck, safe riding and always wear a helmet.

 

[BigNerd]

I think the combination of 1/4 pedal turn before PAS kicks in and the power of the PAS 1is a contributor to this "kick" in certain situations.

Some people can get used to it but there are some situations where that particular combination does not perform well like @UphillBothWays posted.

I agree, there is no perfect bike but at least this thread can help inform people about how certain bikes work so they won't be shocked when they buy one.

 

[Padrepedro]

Bob, I did not say 50 % don't like their bikes. I said that probably 50% who were considering the Aventon, the rapid accel was a deal killer. They are fine bikes, among the biest at the price point, and most owners are very happy with them. And yes, if you are aware of the rapid accel, you will generally avoid any issues, even in slow speed, tight turns. But, in a panic situation, we revert to our old habits, which is to pedal slightly when you are falling into a tight turn. Don't want to start an argument with you as this has been discussed infinitum. Enjoy your ride and welcome to the EBR forum. Lot's of fine people here.

Aventon is finally addressing this issue, but too late for me, just bought Ride1Up. I would have purchased Aventon if it didn’t have this fast start issue.

 

[Handlebars]

Different bike, but for me it was about looking where you want to go and doing it. If you look down or let off the power you get the bad turns, it becomes awkward and you feel much more like it's lurching than if you look down the road you are going on and go for it.
Now I always use throttle to start off more smoothly at my own speed which is not slower, just more controlled. I might leave it in PAS 3 for when I get off the throttle and then switch up quickly if there is traffic.
So...to me the problem is being in PAS and starting, then stopping pedaling during the turn because it lurched a bit when it started. Then it becomes a bad turn.

 

[robrob]

Great news, Aventon just announced starting March 1st, 2021 they will begin selling bikes with a controller upgrade that reduces the acceleration in PAS 1 and 2. The upgrade also allows throttle from a dead stop without pedaling. They will also sell the controller upgrade for existing customers but the upgrade will not easy. They are recommending an e-bike shop for the controller swap.

"In regards to the turns, I can't imagine a scenario, where he would make a turn without hitting the brake, so I think he's okay there....."

It happens to me every time I make a U-turn in the road. I use the brakes to slow down but then have to pedal to get through the U-turn and the motor kicks in. This tends to widen the turn and I almost went off the road the first time it happened. Like many above, I learned to drag a brake lightly to disable the motor during tight turns.

 

[Waterman480]

Hopefully, the minimum assist speed will also be reduced in PAS 1. As it sits now I either have to pedal with no assist or pedal at about 14 mph with PAS1 to get exercise. Nothing option in between. The natural speed of PAS1 is 12 mph.

 

[robrob]

I use leg power and an occasional blip of the throttle for less than PAS 1 speeds.

 

[Rickey Ricardo]

Good on Aventon for listening to customer feedback and offering these two controller changes. Their announcement makes clear their concerns about the throttle "upgrade" since they "strongly suggest" that riders continue to pedal before engaging throttle and they mention the concern of runaway bikes. Given this, I wonder why they did not offer the option to toggle immediate throttle on/off. Perhaps the controller upgrade will not be too difficult for current bike owners; I see a controller offered on their website and, if access is reasonable, all the connections seem to be plug-ins. Has anyone done a controller swap? Time for Aventon to move to the Tesla era, where updates happen over-the-air

 

[pkchari]

Perhaps the controller upgrade will not be too difficult for current bike owners; I see a controller offered on their website and, if access is reasonable, all the connections seem to be plug-ins. Has anyone done a controller swap? Time for Aventon to move to the Tesla era, where updates happen over-the-air

I suspect that most of the challenge in installation is just owed to the fact that the controller is hidden in the frame and neither exposed nor integrated into the battery pack like so many other bikes in the same price range.

To be honest, though, I don't understand why it can't be solved via a firmware upgrade. There is a USB data-only port and data-only lines that connect the controller to the battery pack. This is the sort of thing that should be easily solved by just having a firmware upgrade that we install via a USB stick even with the current hardware on the bikes. It's not as if the motor controller is strictly a collection of passive circuits -- there's a regular old microcontroller in there that is plenty programmable just like any other CPU is. I get that Aventon doesn't make any of the parts, but I would not be surprised if even the OEMs who do supply them do offer such things. Selling it as a package including a new controller, throttle, and display sounds like they either have such a poor grasp of the underlying technology that they are taking the low-effort approach (low-effort from Aventon's point of view), or they are simply going for a cash grab since no consumer in their right mind would pay money for a firmware upgrade as they would for a new controller. Frankly, though, I'm actually inclined to think it's much more the former.