Not asking, just making a point.

[Jeremy McCreary]

We are wandering so far off topic we'll need GPS to get back, but...

Informal, anecdotal accounts from my caseload suggest that small doses of thoroughly tested, commercial products, particularly those intended for medical use do appear to cause far fewer unwanted effects, and much less intrusive perceptual distortions. Which makes sense: If you are ingesting five to seven chemicals instead of 250-500 chemicals, you will probably have a milder, more predictable experience. There is less of a 'head rush,' and the 'paranoia' experienced by smokers generally does not escalate beyond some transient agitation-- might be distracting and unpleasant, and my clients have said that if they can avoid stressful situations or trying to multi-task during that 10 to 40 minute window of time, it's pretty manageable in the 5-to-10 milligram range.

I just get fewer complaints from folks who use it that way-- fewer people bombing their exams, being late to work, getting 'crossed' w/ alcohol or other substances, making bad decisions, persistent underemployment or underachievement-- which are more prevalent in those who smoke. Completely unscientific, of course, not giving medical advice, consult your doctor, lawyer, shaman, or whatever, etc.

The main risks seem to be that the effect can be unpredictable in that range as well, though whether this is due to variability in the product (despite rigorous testing) or something about the bioavailability and erratic pharmacokinetics remains unknown. What I do hear is people saying, "I don't get it, I have 8mg every night at the same time of day, have the same diet, and most nights it's barely psychoactive-- maybe just some out-of-the-box thoughts, as Jeremy describes, and music sounds a little different-- but one night out of 20, it will be more like a mild acid trip: Not unpleasant, but more than I bargained for on a work night."

For biking, as a health care professional, I'd still always recommend nothing at all when operating any vehicle. That said, for biking or driving, the biggest risk is what I call the 'left turn problem,' or an increase in indecision, self-consciousness, and nervousness. "Can I make it or not? " is not a good feeling to have in any vehicle, and it's likely to be at its worst in that 10-40 minute window of agitation.

Should anyone have that happen to them? Get off the road and wait it out, even if it means missing the start of a movie or showing up to dinner late or not at all. Not worth the risk.

All good points. By no means should anyone bike or drive or even walk while impaired.

My usual dose of 2.5 mg leaves me functional but looking at things through a slightly different lens that I find quite valuable. Kinda like stopping for a single beer on a ride or after work. I think most people can do that unimpaired as well.

 

[Sparky731]

It's hard not to overtake a fitness e-bike.

Maybe so, unless you ride in Turbo all the time with a Speed motor. If I get passed by a roadie (twice only while slowing for water) it won’t take long before I ride him down and pass him — pedaling with flip flops and a smile just to add flavor. It is an endurance thing.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The SL motor delivers up to 240 W, and my legs can output 230 W if I really try. Now, non-competing roadies can provide 500 W leg peak power, and better of them can easily muster as much as 800 W for a climb. They would probably smoke Pedaluma if they wanted, especially as they ride lightweight aero bikes Uma would have no slightest chance against them downhill

Now, I may sound boring but cycling is not about "smoking" anyone. What is your virtue @Sparky731? A strong motor? Go and buy a motorcycle. No wonder roadies call us "cheaters"...

P.S. Uma has shown a picture of a Vado SL, a 240 W fitness e-bike and he's proud he "smoked" it

 

[Sparky731]

Now, I may sound boring but cycling is not about "smoking" anyone. What is your virtue @Sparky731? A strong motor? Go and buy a motorcycle. No wonder roadies call us "cheaters"...

P.S. Uma has shown a picture of a Vado SL, a 240 W fitness e-bike and he's proud he "smoked" it

Nah, it’s not cheatin’, I just got a problem with being passed. Goes all the way back to jr. high school track. 2nd place is first loser. Even at 60 yrs old I won our State Senior Olympics in the 50m, 100m & 200m dashes. It’s in my blood. I like speed — BUT when biking whenever I encounter other bikers, runners or walkers I will drop to absolute minimum speed. Safety first.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Nah, it’s not cheatin’, I just got a problem with being passed. Goes all the way back to jr. high school track. 2nd place is first loser. Even at 60 yrs old I won our State Senior Olympics in the 50m, 100m & 200m dashes. It’s in my blood. I like speed — BUT when biking whenever I encounter other bikers, runners or walkers I will drop to absolute minimum speed. Safety first.

I can understand your feeling. When I am being overtaken by a road cyclist, I do not attempt to overtake him (or her!) anymore. If I must, I just follow the person to indicate I could be faster if I wanted Which has led to a funny happening recently (the roadies are aware of e-bikes now!) As I was following a roadie, we both had to slow down before an intersection. He signalled I take the lead. I said 'No, please be in the lead!' to which he barked 'No, you take the lead! You have the motor!' Trust me, now I felt intimidated as I had to pedal very hard in Turbo mode, and the guy was closely following me! He gave me a very good workout for the couple of kilometres we rode together!

I have found overtaking roadies makes little sense, and I am respectful for their level of fitness and performance. Passing a fast cyclist sometimes can result in a bad crash (ask me how I know...)

 

[EMGX]

It is very funny how the world is interconnected. Just after I wrote that post yesterday I smoked a Vado. I was approaching a hospital campus when a Specialized Vado crossed the intersection ahead. I upped the power, down shifted, reved up the cadence, and up shifted through the gears, and then rang my bell as I blew past the guy. He was stuck doing 20. I was going about 30% faster. I used to work with him. He takes the commuter train up from a town called Novato. The sucker is saddled with an over priced, under performing, heavy piece of shite. When it fails he won't be able to fix it. A replacement battery is $1200.

I smoke two Vados in the morning, smoke two more at night. I smoke two Vados in the afternoon, it makes me feel alright.

I highly recommend that everyone smoke some Vados. It is fun.

View attachment 164961

I don't get the acrimony. The bike you pictured is a sweet bike that I'd be more than happy to own or ride. I looked up the vado 5.0 SL and it supports up to 28mph, doesn't supply the power that a tongsheng can but at a reported 33# and marked down over $1200, for someone not interested in a conversion or a cheaper heavier bike I can see the appeal. Not that I'd ever spend $3749 - as much as I like riding it's still only a bicycle to me, but still....

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Not that I'd ever spend $3749 - as much as I like riding it's still only a bicycle to me, but still....

We're all different that way.

Back in my younger days, my motto was, "at either end of the economic spectrum, there is a leisure class." I take perverse pride in having spent most of my life at either extreme and rarely much time in the middle of that spectrum. I was (and still am) a proud dirtbag. All of my possessions then fit in a junky 1987 Subaru. "Home" was an old trailer on a vacant lot in the Northwest Forests that I rented for $125 per year. I got the trailer free as a driveaway, with the actual costs being a temporary license to move it to its new home, patching the tires, and gas money from the borrowed F150 that pulled it there. I understand the trailer is still there and still occupied thirty years later. I sincerely hope they dug a new outhouse, though.

But even then, I had very nice toys. In that Subaru were several pairs of absolute top-of-the-line cross country racing skis (I think four pairs) and two pair of (again absolute top-of-the-line) telemark skis. Plus all of the appropriate accessories. Plus enough climbing gear to stock an outdoor store. At the same time, a major part of my diet was refried beans from dented cans, sold in Mt. Vernon for about $0.20 each. Most of the skis were pro dealed (and that was back when pro deals were decent) but still...

I remember there was some promotion by a brewery (might have been Red Hook, doesn't matter). Well, combined with their promotion and a rebate one of their distributors had we figured out how to get free beer for one glorious summer.

So these days I won't feel too bad about how I live my life these days, still with many pairs of skis, and two fairly spiffy bikes.

You can have fun with basically no money at all, and you can have fun with lots of money. The point is to have fun.

 

[Catalyzt]

Aldous Huxley was brilliant with a rich inner life and outer social life. He would micro-dose, mostly in Pasadena. Later an LA rock band named themselves for one of his books, Doors of Perception. He also knew and worked with a guy named Bill who co-founded a popular 12-step program.

The Bill Wilson / Aldous Huxley connection is a fascinating one. Bill's comment was something like (paraphrased from memory), "I have a feeling that the insight from this experience will stay with me the rest of my life," specifically his richer, deeper experience of a Higher Power. Pedal, weren't they hanging out with Carl Jung as well? Seems like they were, and I think they took LSD together, but I can't find a reference for that. What I found was this, from Don Latin at Lucid News:

<< “Some of my AA friends and I have taken the material (LSD) frequently and with much benefit,” Wilson told Jung, adding that the powerful psychedelic drug sparks “a great broadening and deepening and heightening of consciousness.”

Wilson told Jung that his first LSD trip in 1956 reminded him of a mystical revelation he had after hitting bottom in the 1930s and winding up in a New York City hospital ward for hardcore alcoholics. “My original spontaneous spiritual experience of twenty-five years before was enacted with wonderful splendor and conviction,” he wrote.

LSD was still legal in 1956, and in Wilson’s case initially taken under the medical supervision of UCLA researcher Sidney Cohen, and with the spiritual guidance of his Wilson’s friend, Gerald Heard, an Anglo-Irish mystic and early proponent of psychedelic spirituality. Wilson would go on to quietly form a bi-coastal psychedelic salon with various leading lights of that decade, including the writer Aldous Huxley. >>

Also:

<< But in another piece of correspondence, he acknowledged that LSD does not have “any miraculous property of transforming spiritually and emotionally sick people into healthy ones overnight.” >>

At one point, Bill really wanted to incorporate LSD into AA, but was talked out of it by other founding members. I believe-- though I can't find the source-- that near the end of his life, Bill observed that he felt he'd been right not to include LSD as part of 12-step work, but he'd also been correct that the spiritual reawakening he'd experienced would stay with him the rest of his life.

My personal favorite of his books is Island. The premise is that the solitary existence of paradise anywhere, would be a threat to world power based on divide and conquer and exploitation. There is a big push by powers these days to divide people. In Rwanda the Dutch made up Tutsi & Hutu. Then the Dutch then let them kill each other and took their land.

Like Blofed, of Spectre in the 007 films-- From Russia with Love, I believe: The scene with the three Siamese Fighting Fish. The smart one watches the other two fight, and then easily kills the victor, who is exhausted from battle.

 

[PedalUma]

Jung was influenced by William James of a generation before. He was and anatomist, physician, scholar, philosopher, social anthropologist, and the founder of modern psychology. He saw the similarity of belief systems, while not getting lost by their differing cultural metaphors. With the invention of radio and telegraph there was a huge wave of spiritualism. Unseen stuff could communicate across chasms. He along with Arthur Conan Doyle and others attempted the scientific study of the spirit world. There is a fun book about it that is good for this time of year. The opening story of the drowning is super spooky.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/travel/2023/10/20/ouija-board-history-halloween-orig-ag.cnn

 

[6zfshdb]

I have had it with this Forum!

The stuff that goes on here is ridiculous! If you don’t own a $2000 plus E-Bike then you automatically have a piece of junk. And that is no matter what your needs are or your money flow is. This is one of the reasons I left being a Professional Bicycle Mechanic back in 2009. When did having a FUN ride on a Bicycle necessitate the need to have a super expensive bike?

Then the folks that will call you out for reviving an old thread, when they did the same thing in the same thread? Take it off line and start a conversation with folks out of the Forum main pages.

I am on many forums and I like to HELP people out. Many years of riding from Road Racing in the 70’s to having kids and building their bikes. Tandems, Recumbents, home builds wheel building. So many things that I could say something on.

I do take pause with each post before I post. I consider if something needs to be said and if I can really relate to what is being said. I even did it with this post.

But I have decided I don’t need to be here. I have the technical experience to handle an e-bike on my own from troubleshooting and repair. I just thought I could bring something to these pages and posts. Just too many people who have no respect for others. Me, I’m going out to ride and enjoy life. I don’t need this abuse on a forum.

Personally, I don't think this forum is all that much different from what you encounter in everyday life. There will always be those who will flaunt what they have and deride you for the car you drive, the house you live in, the clothes you wear, the list goes on and on. Unfortunately, it's part of human nature.

I've learned a lot from the forum. I'm grateful to those who answered my questions and offered sound advice. Consequently, I try and reciprocate whenever I feel I can help out. When I receive criticism or am mocked for my point of view, I take it in stride, listen to the valid points, and just ignore the rest. On several occasions for example, I was told to use the search engine since my question had already been answered. It was suggested I google it myself instead of asking others to do it. These are valid points but silly me, I thought this was a discussion forum, not an encyclopedia.

Sure the place has it's faults but as long as I continue to learn, I'll put up with the c*** and hang around. I sincerely hope you will do the same.

I do have one point to add about inexpensive bikes. I met a fellow rider on a local trail about 10 years ago. We were both in our 60's then and riding conventional bikes. We struck up a friendship which lasted until he passed away last year. We bought our first e-bikes at about the same time and shared the new experience together. He bought a $600 bike from Walmart and it was fine for the first year or so but then began having problems. The battery failed, the chain broke and the brakes & derailleur needed constant adjustments. He was not mechanically inclined and since I had worked part time as a bike mechanic, I began doing the work for him.

My point is, there is nothing wrong with an inexpensive bike as long as you're prepared to work on it yourself or have someone who can do it for you. I saw the look in my friends eyes change from joy to sadness as we rode together each time something would go wrong. I can't help but think if it weren't for me, he would have given up on e-biking.

Yeah, I'm being sentimental here and the experience may have jaded my opinion. I know the term inexpensive is a relative term. I'm sure there are less expensive bikes out there that perform with the best but IMO, the quality of your bike can make a big difference in your overall enjoyment of the sport.

 

[PDoz]

I do have one point to add about inexpensive bikes. I met a fellow rider on a local trail about 10 years ago. We were both in our 60's then and riding conventional bikes. We struck up a friendship which lasted until he passed away last year. We bought our first e-bikes at about the same time and shared the new experience together. He bought a $600 bike from Walmart and it was fine for the first year or so but then began having problems. The battery failed, the chain broke and the brakes & derailleur needed constant adjustments. He was not mechanically inclined and since I had worked part time as a bike mechanic, I began doing the work for him.

My point is, there is nothing wrong with an inexpensive bike as long as you're prepared to work on it yourself or have someone who can do it for you. I saw the look in my friends eyes change from joy to sadness as we rode together each time something would go wrong. I can't help but think if it weren't for me, he would have given up on e-biking.

Yeah, I'm being sentimental here and the experience may have jaded my opinion. I know the term inexpensive is a relative term. I'm sure there are less expensive bikes out there that perform with the best but IMO, the quality of your bike can make a big difference in your overall enjoyment of the sport.

You make some good points , and I suspect much of the attitude that polarizes " cheap" vs " expensive" comes from members trying to warn people of the hidden costs / implications of buying "cheap" .

I've mentioned Vimes boot theory in the past ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots... "Boots" theory,run than more expensive items. ) , but particularly with the more risky aspects of our sport there are safety issues at play as well. I'm simply not a good enough rider to do the things I enjoy on poor quality tyres / brakes / suspension. I have friends who are, and they take great joy in " smoking" the fancy riders on clunky old junk. Not everyone is a national champion.

You'll notice " poor quality" - not expensive. I'm firmly in Mr Coffe camp here - I put value on my youth - living " poor" but prioritizing quality recreational gear. Rattling down a mountain range in a clapped out vw with failing brakes, but towing a trailer full of top end motorbikes.....I've now achieved an income that I don't really need to watch my $ , but it literally hurts to waste them - so I'll research at length before buying, seek out the best price, and even then wait until my wifes eyes glaze over and she tells me to shut up and just buy it. Then have buyer remorse , beat myself up until my latest bit of bling arrives - and only really feel happy once it's out performed / lasted what it replaced.

So at times, I'll make the mistake of telling someone that it might be better value to stretch the budget 10% and buy something that isn't going to need replacing. I might also be guilty of suggesting buying with a decent warranty is good value. I'll also tell a budget focussed potential emtb rider NOT to buy electric. Sorry if this offends some people, but I earn my $ dealing with the consequences of people who get risk vs reward wrong. Don't like it? There's an ignore button.

 

[Sparky731]

My wife and I lead several bike groups. When breakdowns occur it is always with the “discount” bikes. Yes, there is a difference in what you pay for — which is often way more than 1st ebikers are expecting to invest.

 

[sc00ter]

What price point reflects the title of a discount ebike? Or what other factors make a ebike a bad value, or earns the title of a POS ebike? My RadRunner 1 was a great value. I rode it 14 miles each way to work Monday thru Friday and ran errands with it on the weekend. I stayed on top of the initial services (re-greased front hub and overhauled the bottom bracket when it got crunchy) but otherwise the thing was a reliable tank. The new owner still rides it almost daily and its never let her down. I guess I answered my own question with the greasing stuff I shouldn't have had to address right out of the gate, so I assume that's the price you pay going budget?

I will admit that if I started to commute to my job again I'd want something a bit more premium than my Lectric Xpedition. No knock against my Xpedition but I'm not sure it could handle my daily commute. Recently I've been forced to learn how to maintain spoke tension! My fear of learning wheel servicing came to visit in the form of a random broken spoke. Again, I answered my own question on this ebike as well. Ordered a Park Tools spoke tension checker for around $80 and a bag or 10 spokes, even though I've only had one break in the rear so far.....

I just purchased a ebike that fit my needs. I didn't want to spend Specialized money on a ebike for just farting around the 'hood on. I don't mind doing some basic servicing when needed as I grew up on bmx bikes and then rode road bikes after drifting away from bmx.

 

[PedalUma]

I don't get the acrimony.

That guy is named Mark. He is perfectly nice. No acrimony there. He is just differently wired than me. It takes all types to make the world go around. He is very left brained and can do many things I cannot because they are so tedious. At the time I blew past him, he was probably zoned out playing a video game called Mission Control. It is a sweet bike that is tons of fun to smoke. I highly recommend it to everyone.

 

[EMGX]

"The sucker is saddled with an over priced, under performing, heavy piece of shite." Sounds like acrimonious hyperbole, but whatever. Bottom line it looks and specs as a very nice bike at a reasonable price given the market. Maybe not your preference but that doesn't make it a bad choice for everyone like your friend. Given what I've experienced over the past 4+ years of owning my BH gravel bike, a couple tsdz2 and a couple hub motors (both front and rear wheel) I realize that nothing is perfect and every choice involves trade offs. Nice bike, I'd love to have one, just not in the market.

 

[BlackHand]

From what I can tell it's just as common here to see a kind of 'reverse snobbery', for lack of a better term. You don't even have to go beyond this thread to see riders being derided for having a brand name ebike.

Staying within your financial means, being realistic about your own mechanical and electrical skills, and matching your personal comfort for risk are equally important whether you buy an $800 bike or an $8000 bike.

Online communities seem particularly prone to tribalism. I'm sure there are EV forums where used Leaf owners, Prius owners, and Tesla Model S owners frequently needle each other and disregard their shared interests and values.

 

[PCeBiker]

Jees I web search word of the day
Acrimony.

I had to Google it too,..

Not to be confused with Antimony,..

Or Anti-Money,..

 

[PedalUma]

Jees I web search word of the day

Rhymes with matrimony. Its closest relative.

 

[PedalUma]

shifter cable on sram NX derailleur

I had this on a bike. It was routed through frame. Shift cable comes in all classes. Big box store bikes typically have under $2 cables with junky housings. An NX level of build IMO deserves the good stuff. You will notice and appreciate the difference with high-end housing and highly polished, non-stretch cable. My technique may not be the same as what others do. I would first extract the housing, leaving the cable in place. Then I would use shrink tube to attach the new housing to the old cable to guide it though the frame. Then I would route the new cable through the new housing with CLP gun oil inside the housing. The derailleur has the lock button. Lock it. Be careful to route the cable through the little hole and around the pully. Oh, make sure that the shifter is set to the highest gear before doing anything. Use needle-nose Vicegrip to pull the cable while securing it. If the rear barrel adjuster is in a middle to fully lax position you can adjust the tension either way. The Bontrager Elite Kit from your local Trek dealer gives everything you need and it is the good stuff.

 

[Slaphappygamer]

Derailleur rhymes with failure.