New Vado SL 4.0 - harsh ride!

[Stefan Mikes]

Stefan,

You say, "you need to recharge all the Range Extenders sometime!", so on these bike rides with others, are you the only e-bike rider and/or there others who have non-ebikes?
Reasoning is, do they 'wait' for you? Does your time needed to charge batteries interfere with the other riders who may not wish to stop to wait for you?
My past experiences with group rides is that most times on the really competitive, interesting rides, I'm the only e-bike rider and most of the others are with the $10k carbon bikes and they just keep going, not ever really stopping unless necessary for hydration break of 5 or 10 minutes tops.
I've been there in the past with my previous Vado 5.0 and to carry a 10 lb. battery in some way is not easy.
I too had the Vado SL with the range extender and for the most part could get easily 100 miles if needed (I don't think I ever got over 63-64 miles, but had 50% remaining on battery on that ride with the combined power.
So I guess what I'm asking is do they wait for you or?

Good questions, simple answers!

• I and my brother are the only e-bikers in the gravel or road racing communities who join group rides. My brother is as healthy and strong as he goes on extreme rides with a single 625 Wh battery for his Giant Trance E+ 2 Pro. He actually considers buying a traditional gravel bike for the gravel club rides.
• For day long group rides, I need to come with as many of Range Extenders (or spare batteries for the big Vado) as nobody would need to wait for me (nobody would!) I rarely join group rides longer than 70 miles because of the group ride high speed (so high battery consumption).
• A gravel ultramarathon is a very different event. There is a predefined route and the time limit to complete the race. There, I am a lone rider between almost 300 racers. Whatever I do there will be independent of any sub-group of riders. Overnight stay (as well as stopping for meals) is allowed. I use the overnight stay to recharge the batteries.

If I ride economically, I can do up to 130 km (80+ miles) on the SL main battery and a single Range Extender. However, such a ride is slow. For a timed event that requires higher speed multiple Range Extenders are necessary. For a two day event and 250+ km race, recharging the e-bike batteries is a must.

 

[hankj]

Hank, how come my mods made my Vado SL the most comfortable of my e-bikes at pretty normal tyre inflation pressure must remain a mystery for you

YES, the stock Vado SL was rigid. My Vado SL is just flowing on trails!

Personally i think smoothing out a harsh frame with suspension stems and suspension seat posts is lipstick on a pig. Hybrid style bicycles can have smooth riding frames and forks, even in all aluminum. The all alu Trek 1120 is smooth riding. MTB suspension forks and full sus mtb's a different story of course - you pay the weight penalty on those for a specific type of performance (My full sus mtb can smash over really gnarly terrain). But since rigid frames and forks can be smooth riding without suspension stem and seatpost, I prefer smooth frames.

But I don't doubt your suspension stem and post are very helpful.

Tires as you point out also make a big difference. I've been touring in Europe on my non-electric hybrid 20 day without a break. Nothing crazy, a few 50km short days, a few 150km+ long days, a few 2000m+ climb days. So pretty recreational, albeit loaded touring so extra work dragging all the stuff. About 1600km so far.


Halfway in my rear Challenge Strada Bianca 40mm tire wore out, and I realized the terrible and very unpredictable grip was a bad choice for touring. Replaced with Specialized Pathfinder Pro 42's, which I also have ridden at home.

DIrect comparison tubeless, the Pathfinders are more than half a gear slower and ride more harshly on medium and large bumps. Both of these things to be expected - the Strada Biancas are just incredibly fast rolling tread, and the Specialized tires are much heavier with much thicker, less supple sidewalls - heavy thick sidewalls transmit shock. The Pathfinders are in my experience are better than mid-pack rolling, but because of the weight mid-pack overall speed at given watts.

Good ebike tires I think, where just a little bit of motor helps erases the inertia issues with heavier tires. They are very tough and very sticky on pavement and gravel, great qualities for touring even if overall average speed is lower. The speed gain and smoothness of a really fast 40mm tire probably isn't worth the risk of tearing a sidewall, or in the case of the Strada Biancas, crashing because the cornering traction and braking is horrible.

Long story short, the Pathfinder Pros will go on the Vado SL when I get back home in two weeks. They are a fine choice for an e-bike. If they were light and more supple on rougher terrain I'd keep them on my non-electric touring hybrid. Maybe the S-Works version of the Pathfinder, which is lighter with a gum sidewall is right for my tourer? Seems like a fit.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thank you for your interesting write-up Hank!

 

[hankj]

here's my tourer up on Alp de Suisi yesterday, rode up from Bolzano, then up to Brixen. Pathfinder Pros made it up more than a mile of climbing yesterday, and are so nicely stable and sticky on long steep descents, both paved and gravel. I'd like to try this kind of touring on a light e-bike some day, maybe a next Gen Vado SL if they smooth it out a bit.

 

[hankj]

Thank you for your interesting write-up Hank!

Sure! I don't want to sell the Pathfinder Pros short - they are a really good pick for an e-bike. A few more upside points:

I can already tell they will last a very long time. This is a 2-3 year tire even if you ride a lot. If you ride less and less aggressively, they could last the lifetime of the bike, or until the rubber compound starts to break down. And they aren't super expensive like some others, so a great value cost/duration of tire.

They are overall medium fast rolling, which is fine, and very smooth riding except bigger hit that can't flex the sidewall easily enough. A big upside of the heavier sidewalls though is stability. They don't flex sideways when turning creates lateral torque, and they don't deflect when you hit a bump with just 1/2 or 1/3 of the tire. And they are very good under load - a big rider on a heavier bike with heavier gear is fine for these tires. You can run them at quite low pressures tubeless and they maintain these same characteristics plus won't pinch flat or burp - can't do that with 400 gram tires and expect stability.

All of the above paragraph plus the sticky tread equal a relatively safe tire - many.ways to crash a bike, but these tires are almost certainly not going to be the cause of a spill. Can't say that for unpredictably slippery Challenge tires, the light Continental tires that can tend to deform sideways, Bontrager GR1's that can puncture vey easily and suddenly deflate.

Lastly the hold air great (thinner, very supple tire can lose 1/2 bar overnight for the lifetime of the tire, or even on a long ride), and mount up tubeless both easily and with a clean firm seal at the bead. Very well designed in terms of shape.


So yeah, good rubber, especially for an e-bike, can't think of better for a Vado SL. Maybe if one wants lighter and more rough terrain grip the Schwalbe G-One Bites, but not better, just different

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I've ridden PP for 6,000 km and no sign of wear.

 

[AvalancheRun]

This is an interesting conversation. As I learn more about the Vado SL I would also prefer a bike that is smooth enough out of the box. I wonder why it’s not? Does the 5.0 with Future Shock solve that problem?

I can attest to the redshift shock top seatpost improving the ride on my Gazelle almost beyond belief.
Actually one of the odd things that I notice with that bike is it transmits a lot of roughness into my hands compared to… pretty much every bike I’ve ridden recently… An old Trek hybrid bike, a Trek carbon road bike, a steel frame Milwaukee gravel bike, even the Citibikes (!) on 5mm narrower Marathon Plus tires. I’m curious if weight could be the cause here. My current setup is 63 lbs + battery + locks, etc. (20 lbs).

Back to the Vado SL, since Specialized has so much else dialed in terms of e-bikes, the $350 Shocktop bundle doesn’t seem so bad. Has anyone not found excellent results with the Redshift stem on a Vado?

 

[GuruUno]

Me, I use the Kinekt ( https://cirruscycles.com/products/suspension-stem ), and with their seat post/combo, it to me is the very best.

 

[AvalancheRun]

Me, I use the Kinekt ( https://cirruscycles.com/products/suspension-stem ), and wit their seat post/combo, it to me is the very best.

Are you totally satisfied with the comfort improvement it’s made to your SL?

 

[mfgrep]

I have a bit over 1K miles on my Vado SL 4.0 and when I began in June I found the ride to be on the harsh side.
At that time Stefan 'clued me in' to my tire over-inflation....the 700x38 stock tire sidewall reads "50-85" PSI....so with my dumb logic I filled to 65PSI. It was harsh.
I lowered the PSI to 37 front and 42 rear (I weigh 148lbs...bike is approx. 35lbs) and it made a huge difference. HUGE. I also was forced to replace one of my tires (factory defect front tire) and they only had a 700x42 in stock (same Pathfinder Sport). I was astonished at the ride improvement....more supple....more comfortable).

I then added Ergon GP3 grips....better pedals...and a RedShift suspension stem. Once the 700x38 came back in stock I returned to it.....despite the 700x42 comfort I preferred the handling of the 700x38 on asphalt and wanted matching tire sizes both front and back. I'll tell you what though....want it more comfortable?.....put the 700x42 (or larger) on the bike. This will solve all.

I am now quite comfortable on the bike and with stock tires, however, I am the type of rider that automatically lifts out of the saddle as road conditions dictate. If your fitness requires that you remain in the saddle at all times I could imagine that you would find the Vado SL uncomfortable....and the VSL is likely not the right ergo for you either. I have not added a suspension seat post as I don't wish to re-route the tail light.
I also haven't been antsy to change the seat post because....well....I find the bike to be pretty comfortable altogether. Sure it is a rigid aluminum frame with an aluminum fork....it handles really well....is nimble etc......it is a rigid bike after all.

Long winded.....but with a few very minor tweaks and proper setup the Vado SL is not an uncomfortable ride by anyone's stretch of the imagination.

 

[GuruUno]

Are you totally satisfied with the comfort improvement it’s made to your SL?

Me? When I had an SL, whatever Kinekt I had on it I was happy with (seat). As far as I know/remember, could not do the stem because of the existing proprietary stuff by Specialized

 

[Stefan Mikes]

AR,
If I could choose again (and could get a proper colour option), I would go for Vado SL 5.0 (maybe EQ) today. I had a chance to ride a Diverge EVO (a flat handlebar gravel bike) with FutureShock 1.5, and was astonished how soft ride I could experience on that bicycle! The FutureShock on both Diverge and Vado SL 5.0 is accompanied by a carbon fork, which has to contribute to the shock damping experience.

As @mfgrep said, proper tyres at the right inflation pressure are the most contributing factor to the ride comfort on a rigid bike. Personally, I use Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss 700x38c at the pressure calculated from the Rene Herse Tire Pressure Calculator. (Today, it was 3.5 bar or 50 psi front/rear - Rene Herse explains why the pressure in both tyres should be equal). I usually inflate the Vado SL tyres to the Soft setting for gravel rides or to Firm for purely asphalt rides. Rene Herse also tells us why lower tyre pressure is good: less chances for a puncture (an excellent paper!) If we had no winters, I would go tubeless right on the spot (Vado SL rims are tubeless ready for all models!)

Redshift ShockStop seat-post is just the best in my opinion. As it is made in the native SL seat-post diameter of 27.2 mm, it is the natural choice for that e-bike.

Now, I think that the RedShift ShockStop stem is a marvellous product, too, but I have come to understand it is not that easy to dial it. First of all, the longer the stem is the better but too long a stem can adversely affect the bike geometry (I'm lucky as I really needed a 100 mm stem). The stem comes with a collection of elastomers. It is unfortunately too easy to select too soft elastomer so the stem does not work as expected. If anyone just starts with the Redshift ShockStop stem, I recommend riding with the new stem in the default configuration and only later change it to the values recommended by the instruction manual.

All I say is you cannot go wrong with Vado SL 5.0 and its FutureShock stem and carbon fork unless you are an overly heavy person (carbon has some weight limits).

Besides, I will show soon pictures from today's ride on Vado SL involving a nasty singletrack. I had no issues with any "harsh ride" there!

 

[hankj]

If your fitness requires that you remain in the saddle at all times I could imagine that you would find the Vado SL uncomfortable....

My fitness level is 5000-7000+ miles on non-electric bikes for my entire adult life, probably 30 years. I ride about 10 hours every week in average. Single digit body fat, resting HR in the 40's. I've been tapering off double-black trails on my MTB. In short I can ride a bike however I feel like riding it whenever I feel like. It's not a low fitness level nor a lack of skill or experience that makes me say the Vado SL is harsh riding.

a few very minor tweaks and proper setup the Vado SL is not an uncomfortable ride by anyone's stretch of the imagination

It is by mine. I've owned probably 50 bikes in 30 years. You can make the Vado SL 4.0 ride better, but you can't make a too stiff frame and fork less stiff. The industry has come an enormous way with aluminum comfort in the past 20 years - there are wonderfully comfortable, well-tuned aluminum frames and forks out there at fairly low price points. The Vado SL 4.0 isn't part of the new wave of tuned alu - rather it rides like aluminum from the 1990s.

I think it's a good choice for a hybrid style electric bike, maybe even the best choice in the segment. But I'm not going to say that it is what it isn't, and I'm not going to agree that I don't know better.

 

[hankj]

And look, not to harp on it, but it's pretty much indefensible that the Vado 4.0 frame and fork are inherently harsh. I mean look at what happens when you upgrade just one level to 5.0. Specialized puts on a carbon fork and a built in headshock. That is a literal direct acknowledgment that the 4.0 front end is harsh. If it wasn't they wouldn't make those upgrades.

Again, I do think it's the best choice in its market segment, but I also think Specialized, an awesome and innovative industry leader, could, and ought to, do better. I hope they track threads like this, and then maybe respond to them.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

And look, not to harp on it, but it's pretty much indefensible that the Vado 4.0 frame and fork are inherently harsh. I mean look at what happens when you upgrade just one level to 5.0. Specialized puts on a carbon fork and a built in headshock. That is a literal direct acknowledgment that the 4.0 front end is harsh. If it wasn't they wouldn't make those upgrades.

Again, I do think it's the best choice in its market segment, but I also think Specialized, an awesome and innovative industry leader, could, and ought to, do better. I hope they track threads like this, and then maybe respond to them.

I have ridden a modified Vado SL 4.0 for more than 11,000 km, often in the rough terrain.

You are too harsh yourself, Hank

That's the terrain I rode on my Vado SL 4.0 EQ on last Thursday.

You do not pay a fortune for a Vado SL, either. Just compare the price to Creo SL.

 

[mfgrep]

And look, not to harp on it, but it's pretty much indefensible that the Vado 4.0 frame and fork are inherently harsh. I mean look at what happens when you upgrade just one level to 5.0. Specialized puts on a carbon fork and a built in headshock. That is a literal direct acknowledgment that the 4.0 front end is harsh. If it wasn't they wouldn't make those upgrades.

Again, I do think it's the best choice in its market segment, but I also think Specialized, an awesome and innovative industry leader, could, and ought to, do better. I hope they track threads like this, and then maybe respond to them.

Well if you want more comfort you can buy the new Santa Cruz Skitch. It is the closest thing to a Vado SL that I have seen..... And it looks better. Carbon. Lighter. More powerful motor. Bigger battery. I think it is the most exciting ebike that I have seen come to market....personally....obviously this is completely subjective.

I don't agree with your "lipstick on a pig" comment. It implies that all humans are entitled to have the best of everything and price(s) be damned. In your world there would be no Honda Accords but only Ferraris.

I paid $2499 for my SL 4.0 (which I do not consider comparable to a Honda Accord)..... and I could nearly have bought three of them for the price of this Santa Cruz. The Vado SL 5.0 was enough extra money ($750) that it prevented me from purchasing it. The cost of buying 'better equipped' versions of similar bicycles is quite high.....but have no doubt they are similar. I bought a used red shift stem for $50 and lowered my PSI and I am happy with the 4.0 bike. If money were no object I suppose we could complain about the ride and configuration of the 4.0..... but I still think my 4.0 was a bargain and I am quite pleased with it. We cannot discuss quality components and ride quality and all of the other factors objectively without a discussion of costs. Is the 5.0 a better equipped bike?.....sure it is....but it costs $750 more and I was unwilling. I am not a dentist. I take greater pleasure in finding a delightful bargain than I would paying top dollar for the hottest/best currently available. 'Best currently available' is a fleeting dream as you can be sure that it will be bested tomorrow.....and I don't chase.

The flat bar carbon Santa Cruz Skitch is $7299. Needless to say this is a better bicycle when compared to my Specialized Vado SL 4.0 but I am unwilling to pay the $4800 price difference . This Skitch looks absolutely perfect for me and I will absolutely not be paying $8K after sales tax to own one.

Skitch - Electric Road Bike | Santa Cruz Bicycles | Buy Online Pick Up In Store

Redefine Your City Travels with the Skitch Electric Road Bike: With the powerful and light Fazua motor, you’ll look for even more excuses to get on your bike because even a city commute can be as much fun as bike park laps.

www.santacruzbicycles.com

 

[mfgrep]

And look, not to harp on it, but it's pretty much indefensible that the Vado 4.0 frame and fork are inherently harsh. I mean look at what happens when you upgrade just one level to 5.0. Specialized puts on a carbon fork and a built in headshock. That is a literal direct acknowledgment that the 4.0 front end is harsh. If it wasn't they wouldn't make those upgrades.

Again, I do think it's the best choice in its market segment, but I also think Specialized, an awesome and innovative industry leader, could, and ought to, do better. I hope they track threads like this, and then maybe respond to them.

Not to prolong this....but wouldn't the 5.0 be the "lipstick" that you refer to on a 4.0 pig? They are the same bike with minor modifications.....and one is 25% more money than the other. Either the Vado SL is a pig or it isn't but you can't have it both ways. I don't suggest that the Vado SL provides the most refined ride quality on the market....but "pig" is unwarranted and harsh indeed imo. You didn't hurt my feelings as an owner....I simply do not agree.
The Santa Cruz analog "Stigmata" is the same frame as the Santa Cruz ebike "Skitch".....and that FRAME is $2699 ALONE while my Vado SL 4.0 was $2499 built up.

 

[AvalancheRun]

AR,
If I could choose again (and could get a proper colour option), I would go for Vado SL 5.0 (maybe EQ) today. I had a chance to ride a Diverge EVO (a flat handlebar gravel bike) with FutureShock 1.5, and was astonished how soft ride I could experience on that bicycle! The FutureShock on both Diverge and Vado SL 5.0 is accompanied by a carbon fork, which has to contribute to the shock damping experience.

As @mfgrep said, proper tyres at the right inflation pressure are the most contributing factor to the ride comfort on a rigid bike. Personally, I use Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss 700x38c at the pressure calculated from the Rene Herse Tire Pressure Calculator. (Today, it was 3.5 bar or 50 psi front/rear - Rene Herse explains why the pressure in both tyres should be equal). I usually inflate the Vado SL tyres to the Soft setting for gravel rides or to Firm for purely asphalt rides. Rene Herse also tells us why lower tyre pressure is good: less chances for a puncture (an excellent paper!) If we had no winters, I would go tubeless right on the spot (Vado SL rims are tubeless ready for all models!)

Redshift ShockStop seat-post is just the best in my opinion. As it is made in the native SL seat-post diameter of 27.2 mm, it is the natural choice for that e-bike.

Now, I think that the RedShift ShockStop stem is a marvellous product, too, but I have come to understand it is not that easy to dial it. First of all, the longer the stem is the better but too long a stem can adversely affect the bike geometry (I'm lucky as I really needed a 100 mm stem). The stem comes with a collection of elastomers. It is unfortunately too easy to select too soft elastomer so the stem does not work as expected. If anyone just starts with the Redshift ShockStop stem, I recommend riding with the new stem in the default configuration and only later change it to the values recommended by the instruction manual.

All I say is you cannot go wrong with Vado SL 5.0 and its FutureShock stem and carbon fork unless you are an overly heavy person (carbon has some weight limits).

Besides, I will show soon pictures from today's ride on Vado SL involving a nasty singletrack. I had no issues with any "harsh ride" there!

I'm leaning SL 5.0 EQ, but the new version with 1.2 motor whenever that pops up. Fenders aren't a big deal, but the rack for panniers is important.
Would definitely run tubeless for lower pressure. Some other posts on the forum attest to the ease of making the switch to tubeless on this bike.

So the Redshift stem in tandem with the Future Shock? By the way, I'm not sure if I mentioned in our previous discussion, but only on the last day of the trial for the stem did it become clear how to work in the elastomers quickly: lots of emergency braking. It actually did help to reduce the road buzz on my Gazelle, but I didn't have enough time to tune out the weird movement (/resonance) with that bike's suspension fork.

And look, not to harp on it, but it's pretty much indefensible that the Vado 4.0 frame and fork are inherently harsh. I mean look at what happens when you upgrade just one level to 5.0. Specialized puts on a carbon fork and a built in headshock. That is a literal direct acknowledgment that the 4.0 front end is harsh. If it wasn't they wouldn't make those upgrades.

Again, I do think it's the best choice in its market segment, but I also think Specialized, an awesome and innovative industry leader, could, and ought to, do better. I hope they track threads like this, and then maybe respond to them.

Do you find that the harshness is directed more towards your hands/wrists/arms or from the seat? Having broken one of my wrists when I was younger, and using my hands for repetitive computer work and playing musical instruments, I often find that biking for 1-2 hours can add undue stress. I've made a lot of ergonomic adjustment as well as habit adjustment to better deal with it. That's all just to say, that I do believe this can be a personal thing to a degree.

Part of me is skeptical about buying another expensive bike and immediately making changes, when so many cheaper (acoustic) bikes seemed to have been fine. But then again, the Redshift stuff is so good.

The flat bar carbon Santa Cruz Skitch is $7299. Needless to say this is a better bicycle when compared to my Specialized Vado SL 4.0 but I am unwilling to pay the $4800 price difference . This Skitch looks absolutely perfect for me and I will absolutely not be paying $8K after sales tax to own one.

Skitch - Electric Road Bike | Santa Cruz Bicycles | Buy Online Pick Up In Store

Redefine Your City Travels with the Skitch Electric Road Bike: With the powerful and light Fazua motor, you’ll look for even more excuses to get on your bike because even a city commute can be as much fun as bike park laps.

www.santacruzbicycles.com

Skitch looks amazing! They have a $6k flat bar version. Carbon, 60 nm torque, 430 wh battery, 30 lbs, 50mm max tire size, claimed to be "silent."
$1k more than a 5.0 SL, but with some significant spec bumps. But oh, the color...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So the Redshift stem in tandem with the Future Shock?

It is impossible and counterproductive (if it were possible). Unless you meant the Redshift seat-post.

Skitch

Weight?

How can you compare an E-MTB with a fitness e-bike? The Skitch is not made for riding the pavement at all!

 

[pete H]

First let me say hi, Hank, lifelong avid cyclist. 7500mi/year analog for decades. I've spent a lot of time on a lot of bikes.

Secondly, the Vado SL 4.0, for what it is, at the current USD 2.5k price ...AFAIK can't be touched. I am minorly in love with the thing. It really perfectly fits my active family's needs. I looked at the Orbea competitor too, but so expensive in comparison for an essentially competitive product. It's the right bike for us for sure!

Third, I'm a bike nerd in the sense of wrenching and upgrading and optimizing. If I rent a bike in Europe it can be a heap and I'll happily ride it for weeks. But at home all bikes are obsessively dialed to optimal for their rider and purpose.

All that in mind (and understand I find little to no fault elsewhere), as it comes stock the Turbo Vado SL 4.0 is a harsh, jarring ride, the likes of which I haven't ridden since the brutal stiff alu trend of the late 1980's/early 1990's. Its ride reminds me of a Cannondale Beast of the East with pumped up tires. I don't like riding off curbs on the Vado, much less gravel tracks.

I'm sure this doesn't have to be the way this bike is. My most recent cheap frame (most of my bike are expensive) -- an $900 euro full bike, alu frame and fork Diamant 136 -- rides LIGHTYEARS smooth. The Diamant 136 is essentially a Trek, and probably made from the 1120 alu tubeset. It's not as smooth as my Salsa Cutthroat (which is insanely smooth riding in rough) but is similar to my ti hardtail with a rigid carbon fork. It is wildly impress how nicely tuned and smooth the dirt cheap all alu Diamant 136 is.

Man is the Vado Sl 4.0 the opposite! Particularly in the front end. The fork is a vibration amplification and transmission device, the wheels, tires and thick tubes all really hard and stiff, the stem and bar chunky and profoundly rigid.

I am going to fix it.

First step is upgraded wheelset and larger volume, plusher tubeless tires.

Change out seat to something that absorbs vibration and shock better (Terry Butterfly ti probably - my wife will ride this bike a lot).

Then damp carbon handlebar (I love the FSA carbon wrapped over thin aluminum bar - it's incredibly damp, more than any all-carbon bar I've ridden).

And then assess.

Add carbon seatpost if back end still jittery on gravel.

Add thinner-walled stem if front end still not optimal.

Add a quiet carbon fork if need be (I suspect a lot of the jangling is a poorly tuned OEM alu fork).

Last step look at my back balance and cry a little (I kid - most parts in "use me" bin already

SO anyway, if you have any experience/advice/tips to help smooth my journey to smooth, glad to hear it.

AND again, stoked on the Vado SL - ticks all the right boxes, particularly the weight - just outstandingly light for the price out of the box, and I'll sweat another 4lbs off it no problem

I fitted a redshift sports shockstop stem to mine and that did sort the harsh ride for me.