New Vado SL 4.0 - harsh ride!

[hankj]

You are too harsh yourself, Hank

Probably true Stephan.

I'm definitely picky about my consumer products. But I'll definitely acknowledge greatness too.

The current version of the Specialized Stumpjumper is an incredibly good mountain bike for instance. In all aspects it's essentially flawless within its terrain parameters.

Salsa Cutthroat as well - I can imagine it different but not better.

Diamant 136 aluminum frame and fork city bike. It's buttery smooth riding. Not for a 900 euro bike, for any bike.

I don't want to ruin anyone's good feelings about their Vado! There's consumer research out there that shows people who test fewer products and have less knowledge end up happier with their purchases. People who do a lot of comparative testing and research end up less satisfied because even if they get the best possible product, they know what is still wrong with it.

My dad for instance will just buy a TV with terrible black levels and be thrilled with it forever. I will do 20 hours of research and look at 20 TVs. Then I buy the very best TV in my price range, but always feel minorly dissatisfied that it doesn't render shades of reds very well, which I would NEVER have even noticed previous to research and comparison. Dad is happier with a much worse TV, and I'm definitely not telling him what's wrong with it in person.

On a consumer product forum though is the place to tell the critical truth about products.

Still, I don't intend to harsh anyone's happiness about the Vado SL 4.0! Again, it's pretty clearly the best choice in its segment, and it can be modified to make most people comfortable on long jittery rides.

 

[mfgrep]

I fitted a redshift sports shockstop stem to mine and that did sort the harsh ride for me.

+ 1 for me!

 

[mfgrep]

"and it can be modified to make most people comfortable on long jittery rides."

One last jab eh? lol

I agree with nearly all of your last posts about the Vado SL 4.0....and even about consumer sentiments.
Your comments do not, however, account for cost differences (price) of varying products.

Let us just hope that a $7300 continues to outperform a $2500 bicycle else the planet may slip off of its axis.

 

[hankj]

Sorry about jittery - i meant the roads, not necessarily the perception of the bike.

But again, my $1000 msrp, alu frame and fork Trek-made Diamant 136 is night and day damper than the $3600 Vado SL. E vs analog, and analog has advantage of hollow downtube. But still, ping the tubes on fork and rear triangle. 136 sing with butting, 136 clunk with not. Same with most $1500 Scott bikes, so many others.

Point being, there are many cheaper aluminum bikes out there that have tuned up frames. Vado SL isn't part of that group. Specialized can do better, and probably will in the next generation.

 

[mfgrep]

How can you compare an E-MTB with a fitness e-bike? The Skitch is not made for riding the pavement at all!

I respectfully disagree Stefan. While the Skitch is certain to perform better on single track (or similar) when compared to the Vado SL.....I still view that Stitch as more of the 'fitness' or 'urban commuter' style bike.
In fact the Skitch frame is the same frame as the Santa Cruz "Stigmata" frame.
The Stitch frame/fork will fit up to a 700x50mm size tire.....and I see that they ship with a 45mm?? (or so it appears).
Aside from a Rider's choice of tire size.....the Skitch is a non suspension frame bike that could (seemingly) 'do it all' for me and do it better than my Vado SL. I won't be paying $8k for that pleasure though

Stefan I am surprised at some of the terrain that you travel with your Vado SL and I give you credit for it....I'm not sure I would do the same on that bike. The Skitch would be better in that terrain certainly, however, if I mount 38's I would guess that the Skitch would handle my (predominant) urban/suburban terrain better as well.

Back to your point, however, the Skitch does not have rack mounts.....but frankly.....my non EQ Vado SL 'rack mounts' aren't the most user friendly imo.

 

[hankj]

Re Skitch, it's a rad looking bike for sure! But I really wish they had built it on its own frame, not borrowing from a speed-oriented non-E frame. The stack height is much lower than the Vado SL, so I know right off the bat that if I got the Skitch, I would have a silly-high stack of spacer and a dumb looking riser stem to make it comfortable.

The non-E frame has lower stack (which to be fair, isn't super low, but definitely not in the comfortable zone for my long leg high seat height) to get the rider more aerodynamic and more into a power position. It's my opinion now that e-bikes and provide compensation for those comfort compromises. I'm going to go fast on an ebike anyway, I will take 1 mph slower on an ebike that is already going quite fast to sit up a bit more! Plus on an e-bike I always feel safer sitting up a little bit more, able to see an assess everything better when I'm going faster than just my legs could propel me.

Specialized I think has geometry correct as far as seating position goes on their e-bike lines, reasonably anticipating both user and effect of a motor on preferred body position. Thumbs up Specialized

 

[hankj]

Regarding rack mounts, there are so many racks out there nowadays with the explosion in popularity of bikepacking. It's not a problem finding good racks to fit frames without fittings.

 

[hankj]

Maybe on the plus side for the Skitch geo, since it's designed as a drop bar bike, If you flat bar it, it's going to be relatively short in the reach. Which means you probably could size up for a flat bar version (If you're good with a standover), which means the stack is going to come up some.

Which means I am trying to talk myself into it? I've really been trying not to buy bikes that don't have stack in my size that is right for me out of the box. But it is a killer looking toy for sure

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I respectfully disagree Stefan. While the Skitch is certain to perform better on single track (or similar) when compared to the Vado SL.....I still view that Stitch as more of the 'fitness' or 'urban commuter' style bike.
In fact the Skitch frame is the same frame as the Santa Cruz "Stigmata" frame.
The Stitch frame/fork will fit up to a 700x50mm size tire.....and I see that they ship with a 45mm?? (or so it appears).
Aside from a Rider's choice of tire size.....the Skitch is a non suspension frame bike that could (seemingly) 'do it all' for me and do it better than my Vado SL. I won't be paying $8k for that pleasure though

Stefan I am surprised at some of the terrain that you travel with your Vado SL and I give you credit for it....I'm not sure I would do the same on that bike. The Skitch would be better in that terrain certainly, however, if I mount 38's I would guess that the Skitch would handle my (predominant) urban/suburban terrain better as well.

Back to your point, however, the Skitch does not have rack mounts.....but frankly.....my non EQ Vado SL 'rack mounts' aren't the most user friendly imo.

Maybe I'm wrong. Currently on a ride, will look to it after I come back home

 

[mfgrep]

Maybe I'm wrong. Currently on a ride, will look to it after I come back home

(price difference aside) I see the Skitch as a 'Vado SL Killer'.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@mfgrep:
Santa Cruz website was telling me Skitch was unavailable in my country and hid that e-bike from my view. Eventually I could look it up.

It is a carbon road e-bike. Please compare apples to apples. Compare the Skitch to the carbon Specialized Creo SL. Pricewise, too. If Creo is too cheap, look up S-Works.

Vado SL is not a road e-bike. Vado SL is not Creo.

 

[hankj]

I think it's a mixed bag as to which would be better off road. In favor of the Skitch, 2 degrees slacker in the head tube at 69 degrees, which IMO is the magic number for when a bike gets truly stable on dirt (Salsa Cutty, Fargo, the best old school MTB's, etc).

Skitch has more BB drop too - always feels good to me to be sitting more in the bike on dirt, not on it.

Frame and fork compliance. I can't say from experience, but suspect the Skitch would be the better choice here

Wheelbases about the same, both would be better on dirt if longer. It's surprises me that the wheelbase's are similar - the Skitch is pushing the front wheel so much farther out front with the slacker head angle.

On dirt I will take the longer chainstays on the Vado SL. The industry went way over the top marketing. Very short chainstays (like on the Skitch, which explains the similar wheelbases despite the slacker head angle) as "snappy and fun." But you giveaway stability in exchange.

And I will take the Vado SL's higher front end. This isn't the kind of bike that you're going to ride on dirt pressing into the front wheel hard to carve berms etc. Having your center of gravity a bit more back will feel reassuring that you're not going to wash out and put your face into the gravel.

I like the Vado SL's lower bottom bracket too, although the extra centimeter might be the product of tire spec.

Verdict IMO Skitch if you want to race gravel, Vado SL to endurance ride mixed surfaces? Neither is really built like a full on every terrain bike ....

 

[mfgrep]

@mfgrep:
Santa Cruz website was telling me Skitch was unavailable in my country and hid that e-bike from my view. Eventually I could look it up.

It is a carbon road e-bike. Please compare apples to apples. Compare the Skitch to the carbon Specialized Creo SL. Pricewise, too. If Creo is too cheap, look up S-Works.

Vado SL is not a road e-bike. Vado SL is not Creo.

Road bikes don't ship with 45's...if anything in drop-bar format it competes with gravel bikes. The Skitch is available in multiple configurations including drop bar or flat bar. I see far more similarities than differences when comparing the Vado SL vs. the Skitch flat bar. On paper I like it a lot.
Your mileage is entitled to vary.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Road bikes don't ship with 45's. The Skitch is available in multiple configurations including drop bar or flat bar. I see far more similarities than differenecs when comparing the Vado SL vs. the Skitch flat bar.
Your mileage is entitled to vary.

It is called "gravel e-bike", my friend. Cf. carbon Specialized Creo EVO

I cannot stop laughing

P.S. Specialized do not offer flat bar Creo but look up Diverge EVO.

 

[hankj]

It is called "gravel e-bike", my friend. Cf. carbon Specialized Creo EVO

I cannot stop laughing

P.S. Specialized do not offer flat bar Creo but look up Diverge EVO.

You could certainly flat bar a Creo if you wanted to. Just can't buy it that way. That might be the appropriate comparison ....

 

[hankj]

I will say the Skitch, like most Santa Cruz bikes, is really good looking. Drool. I'd put two locks on it in my garage.

 

[mfgrep]

It is called "gravel e-bike", my friend. Cf. carbon Specialized Creo EVO

I cannot stop laughing

P.S. Specialized do not offer flat bar Creo but look up Diverge EVO.

Call it what you will. If I owned the Skitch....I'd ride it just like I ride the Vado SL.....but I'd be more apt to venture off-road on occasion.

 

[mfgrep]

I will say the Skitch, like most Santa Cruz bikes, is really good looking. Drool. I'd put two locks on it in my garage.

You ain't kidding. I thought the Vado SL said "steal me" but that Skitch would require that I wear body armor to protect myself from armed thieves.

 

[mfgrep]

It is called "gravel e-bike", my friend. Cf. carbon Specialized Creo EVO

I cannot stop laughing

P.S. Specialized do not offer flat bar Creo but look up Diverge EVO.

Well then....If we are 'going by the marketing' then it "is the ultimate city-slicking, traffic flicking, alleycat-slipping, rat race-escaping teleportation device" lol.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Ever wondered why Skitch or carbon Creo EVO could not have a rear rack?

Or, a kickstand? Or, integrated lighting?

Let us face the facts. Santa Cruz does not have a fitness e-bike in its offer. They have a carbon gravel e-bike similar to Creo EVO.

Specialized has a fitness e-bike called Vado SL that does not cost an arm and leg. You can convert Vado SL to a flat handlebar gravel e-bike as I did it myself.