New Vado SL 4.0 - harsh ride!

[Rás Cnoic]

That's because of the fenders I'm assuming?

It would be awesome if the Vado had clearance for fatter tires. Literally there is no downside to more tire space - You can still run skinny if you want. The bike is not only already boost spacing, but it has a wide q factor because of the motor. It's begging for more frame and fork clearance!

I'd love to see clearance for 2.2s front and rear, 50mm with fenders. Maybe when they do a major model overhaul ....

Agreed. I don't understand why Speccy didn't go wider when launching this bike given the way the industry is going. To see Tadej Pogacar starting this years Tour De France on 28mm tyres but on wide rims so the tyres are almost 30mm in actual width is extraordinary. When I raced in the late 80s it was 19-22mm. Plus his biggest rear cog is a 34T - The 80s road racers would have called that bike a mountainbike! Things are really changing, and for the better.

I too am curious what changes Speccy will bring in to the next version of the Vado SL. I think (I hope) they've been surprised at the range of uses customers have put the bikes to. The original marketing seemed to totally focus on urban commuting or urban fitness - shots of happy Californians on sunny days zooming through the clean sun drenched streets and happily carrying the bike upstairs. When I look at my mud coated bike after a dark wet winter ride and how capable the bike is in those conditions I hope they take that into consideration.

So- Dear Specialized could I have a Vado SL Mk2 with wider clearance, lower gearing- perhaps an option to pick what gearing I'd like the way other manufacturers have; being able to pick wheels (a 650B option would be nice) handlebar style, tyres, gearing, saddle and so on. So a more bespoke system plus of course the new SL1.2 motor, and maybe a frame design that's more compliant - tricky in aluminium I know but less stiff somehow!

But really other than clearance, the bike I have, with my changes, of lower gears, wider tyres and more swept back bars, pretty much works for me on my roads and byways. The new motor does have one big advantage for me actually, they've made it quieter. The SL 1.1 whine does drive me nuts on long hills.

If the Tero X is the heavy comfortable SUV, then what is the Vado SL?

 

[mfgrep]

Might sound goofy but there is a company making laminated bamboo handlebars in New Zealand

Bamboo Handlebars | Passchier

www.passchier.co.nz

I had a pair on my specialized cirrus and they are amazingly comfortable. At first the flex is a bit disconcerting, but they really smooth things out
Now if I can just figure out how to use them on my Turbo Vado. I am pretty sure they would work fine on the SL

Wow. That is really interesting.

 

[hankj]

Agreed. I don't understand why Speccy didn't go wider when launching this bike given the way the industry is going. To see Tadej Pogacar starting this years Tour De France on 28mm tyres but on wide rims so the tyres are almost 30mm in actual width is extraordinary. When I raced in the late 80s it was 19-22mm. Plus his biggest rear cog is a 34T - The 80s road racers would have called that bike a mountainbike! Things are really changing, and for the better.

I too am curious what changes Speccy will bring in to the next version of the Vado SL. I think (I hope) they've been surprised at the range of uses customers have put the bikes to. The original marketing seemed to totally focus on urban commuting or urban fitness - shots of happy Californians on sunny days zooming through the clean sun drenched streets and happily carrying the bike upstairs. When I look at my mud coated bike after a dark wet winter ride and how capable the bike is in those conditions I hope they take that into consideration.

So- Dear Specialized could I have a Vado SL Mk2 with wider clearance, lower gearing- perhaps an option to pick what gearing I'd like the way other manufacturers have; being able to pick wheels (a 650B option would be nice) handlebar style, tyres, gearing, saddle and so on. So a more bespoke system plus of course the new SL1.2 motor, and maybe a frame design that's more compliant - tricky in aluminium I know but less stiff somehow!

But really other than clearance, the bike I have, with my changes, of lower gears, wider tyres and more swept back bars, pretty much works for me on my roads and byways. The new motor does have one big advantage for me actually, they've made it quieter. The SL 1.1 whine does drive me nuts on long hills.

If the Tero X is the heavy comfortable SUV, then what is the Vado SL?



View attachment 157350

View attachment 157351

The way your Vado is set up, and with the mud, it reminds me of the Salsa Fargo, which is pretty close to the wishlist frameset you describe.

The Vado is relatively snappy and quick. Personally I think snappy and quick are a bit overrated in mainstream public hybrid bikes. The trade off is always less stability at speed, and usually more vibration. I ride bikes a lot in many different contexts, and almost never find that a less snappy more stable bike causes me trouble. I never have a problem avoid obstacles or steering where I want to go. I like the way "slower" slightly longer bikes lean and carve turns with sat-down stability.

I don't need a steep, quick geometry to maximize a frantic out of the saddle sprint. I'm not track racing or sprinting for a TdF stage win. My less snappy bikes "swim" plenty fast to match my out of the saddle cadence.

Amd with an e-bike the motor makes the bike jump forward anyway. I don't need attacking geometry to zip ahead.

I'd love to see the things you outline above in the next generation Vado SL too. I'd also take a bit more stack height (which would come with more front tire clearance anyway), 1.5 to 2 degrees slacker head tube, and 2 cm longer wheelbase split between chainstays and front center. Really all of these geo changes would come naturally (or be required) with greater tire clearance, and these changes themselves would make the frame ride smoother without new tube tuning.

I also find your assessment of core user seeming to be more broad than the intended urban zip-abouts to be spot on. My wife's Vado SL will be a touring bike for her because it's not too heavy for her to handle with a light credit card touring load. A user here does gravel endurance riding. You are in the mud. Many people are all-weather commuting and hauling groceries. People are using the Vado in the way people use Salsa bikes, Surly's, All City's, etc. The quality all-rounder market segment is growing like crazy. A Vado SL that had better ability for gravel and travel would be great!

All this and I of course do love the Vado SL. It's exactly the right concept - both mid-motor and striving to light weight under 35lbs without being a road bike. Unique in the marketplace and really smart in its conception.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

The way your Vado is set up, and with the mud, it reminds me of the Salsa Fargo, which is pretty close to the wishlist frameset you describe.

Ha yes - my other bike, actually my favourite bike, is a 12 year old Salsa Vaya. And I love the tall stack of it. Makes riding in the drops a pleasure and is just such a comfortable riding position. I'm just not fit enough to get up the 20%+ hills around here on it and so the Vado has been brilliant, helping me to get fit. Both are set up by me similarly as all-roads but I don't go off road much on the vaya, it's fine on the potholed lanes, the geometry and spring of the steel frame deal with all the roughness making it so comfortable to ride. I have Panaracer GK slicks on it, 38mm and they seem great on all the narrow lanes I mostly take it on.

So I hope Specialized are avidly following this thread!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Meanwhile, I like my Vado SL more and more Today, I had to zoom on potted gravel, loose gravel, dirt and a muddy forest singletrack to be on time in the only open countryside grocery store of the area not to die of dehydration

 

[hankj]

The way your Vado is set up, and with the mud, it reminds me of the Salsa Fargo, which is pretty close to the wishlist frameset you describe.

Ha yes - my other bike, actually my favourite bike, is a 12 year old Salsa Vaya. And I love the tall stack of it. Makes riding in the drops a pleasure and is just such a comfortable riding position. I'm just not fit enough to get up the 20%+ hills around here on it and so the Vado has been brilliant, helping me to get fit. Both are set up by me similarly as all-roads but I don't go off road much on the vaya, it's fine on the potholed lanes, the geometry and spring of the steel frame deal with all the roughness making it so comfortable to ride. I have Panaracer GK slicks on it, 38mm and they seem great on all the narrow lanes I mostly take it on.

So I hope Specialized are avidly following this thread!

View attachment 157384

Funny but i rode a Vaya with GK slick 38's as my primary bike for 5 years! Swapped for a Cutthroat 3 years ago. Liked them both very much but the Salsa Cutty is in different class, so smooth over rough gravel and hangs with carbon road bikes on the pavement. I'm sure Stefan see a lot of them at the gravel endurance races he does.

E-adventure bikes I'm sure are soon to be prominent market category! So fun, so practical!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

The Cutthroat looks great & I keep seeing it being used on the Tour Divide etc. Very strong & light carbon frame - and yes plenty of clearance with those wide carbon forks and I love the geometry.

I really like the e adventure bikes made by Cairn, a small UK company. Same people that make Hunt wheels and the Privateer mad downhill steel mountain bikes. They have only two models and produce in small batches (the covid years also screwed up their workflow like a lot of small producers) but I love that because they are avid mtb & gravel riders they designed their bikes to be fun to ride for themselves. The bulkier one, The BRAVe is a bit like an ebike Fargo, can be dirt drops or flat bar, with low mtb gearing, wide clearances and slack geo with a deliberately large battery 750w for all day off road exploring:

Cairn BRAVe 1.0 electric gravel bike review

Power-laden e-gravel monster truck

www.bikeradar.com

And their lighter Fazua powered e-gravel bike the E-Adventurer also has slacker geometry then say the Creo. Both are really good value and I like their no nonsense approach. Reminds me of Salsa or Surly.

New Cairn E-Adventure Limited Rambler Edition

Pedants ahoy… Cairn has launched what it’s calling the ‘Cairn E-Adventure Limited Rambler Edition’… surely this should be the Cairn E-Adventure Rambler Limited Edition…

singletrackworld.com

 

[hankj]

The Cutthroat looks great & I keep seeing it being used on the Tour Divide etc. Very strong & light carbon frame - and yes plenty of clearance with those wide carbon forks and I love the geometry.

I really like the e adventure bikes made by Cairn, a small UK company. Same people that make Hunt wheels and the Privateer mad downhill steel mountain bikes. They have only two models and produce in small batches (the covid years also screwed up their workflow like a lot of small producers) but I love that because they are avid mtb & gravel riders they designed their bikes to be fun to ride for themselves. The bulkier one, The BRAVe is a bit like an ebike Fargo, can be dirt drops or flat bar, with low mtb gearing, wide clearances and slack geo with a deliberately large battery 750w for all day off road exploring:

Cairn BRAVe 1.0 electric gravel bike review

Power-laden e-gravel monster truck

www.bikeradar.com

And their lighter Fazua powered e-gravel bike the E-Adventurer also has slacker geometry then say the Creo. Both are really good value and I like their no nonsense approach. Reminds me of Salsa or Surly.

New Cairn E-Adventure Limited Rambler Edition

Pedants ahoy… Cairn has launched what it’s calling the ‘Cairn E-Adventure Limited Rambler Edition’… surely this should be the Cairn E-Adventure Rambler Limited Edition…

singletrackworld.com

I had no idea, thanks for the info!

 

[gpburdell]

Just curious, @hankj, what tire pressure are you using and how does it relate to the recommendation from SRAM's tire pressure tool?

 

[hankj]

SRAM tool say f 30, r 32.5 for my wife's weight.

I'm running f 28 r 30, tubeless, 45mm tires with better than average suppleness.

Did a 90 minute ride with my wife on the e-bike 2 days ago. She dislikes it and thinks it's uncomfortable up through the hands, couldn't imagine 6 hour day on it. Her non-electric bike is a Salsa Fargo with the carbon fork running basically the same tires - she can ride comfortably on that all day, day after day.

I think I'll end up getting rid of the Vado SL. Too much work to get it to ride reasonably like bikes that are smooth riding out of the box. I know I could do a shock stem, and a shock post. I could add a carbon fork that would allow a bigger front tire, I could run a 50mm rear tire. I could change out of the fairly stiff stock grips for Ergons, etc etc.

Or I could sell it, and buy the Salsa Confluence when that comes out very soon. It's essentially an "e-Journeyer," which is a remarkably comfortable smooth riding bike for being all aluminum. Hopefully it weighs 35lbs or less .....

 

[mfgrep]

SRAM tool say f 30, r 32.5 for my wife's weight.

I'm running f 28 r 30, tubeless, 45mm tires with better than average suppleness.

Did a 90 minute ride with my wife on the e-bike 2 days ago. She dislikes it and thinks it's uncomfortable up through the hands, couldn't imagine 6 hour day on it. Her non-electric bike is a Salsa Fargo with the carbon fork running basically the same tires - she can ride comfortably on that all day, day after day.

I think I'll end up getting rid of the Vado SL. Too much work to get it to ride reasonably like bikes that are smooth riding out of the box. I know I could do a shock stem, and a shock post. I could add a carbon fork that would allow a bigger front tire, I could run a 50mm rear tire. I could change out of the fairly stiff stock grips for Ergons, etc etc.

Or I could sell it, and buy the Salsa Confluence when that comes out very soon. It's essentially an "e-Journeyer," which is a remarkably comfortable smooth riding bike for being all aluminum. Hopefully it weighs 35lbs or less .....

Well you just sent me down the rabbit hole. Looking at that confluence. The flat bar version looks interesting to me. Unlike your wife, however, I am quite happy with my Vado SL and I'm having trouble staying off of it for long.

I really like these e-bikes which are ' light assist ' versions. The confluence fits the bill. I hope to see a lot more of this style coming out in the near future. Thank you for drawing my attention to it.

My normal exercise routine before it got hot this morning. Today was about 15 miles. I used assist for a total of about 1.5 of the 15 mi which consumed about 5% of my battery. I would imagine those with more experience on other bicycles might find this too rigid but I do not seem to mind.

 

[hankj]

You get spoiled by riding bikes that have truly tuned up, vibration dampening frames and forks. I have a '22 Stumpjumper, a titanium hardtail, a Salsa Cutthroat, and a Diamant 136 which is made by Trek out of the 1120 Alu tubeset. All of these bikes ride buttery smooth, the last most impressive because it's all aluminum frame and fork. It's hard to go back to stiffer riding bikes.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You get spoiled by riding bikes that have truly tuned up, vibration dampening frames and forks. I have a '22 Stumpjumper, a titanium hardtail, a Salsa Cutthroat, and a Diamant 136 which is made by Trek out of the 1120 Alu tubeset. All of these bikes ride buttery smooth, the last most impressive because it's all aluminum frame and fork. It's hard to go back to stiffer riding bikes.

Hank, how come my mods made my Vado SL the most comfortable of my e-bikes at pretty normal tyre inflation pressure must remain a mystery for you

YES, the stock Vado SL was rigid. My Vado SL is just flowing on trails!

 

[BioWheel]

As a kid, I rode bikes without shocks - nothing on the fork or seat. My SL is just like those bikes. I feel every bump and dip. And love it!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

As a kid, I rode bikes without shocks - nothing on the fork or seat. My SL is just like those bikes. I feel every bump and dip. And love it!

As I kid, I had my teeth pulled without analgesia Also, my road bike had the shifters on the down-tube, and old type rim-brakes

 

[Davestic]

@hankj:
Been there, done that:

• Redshift Shock Stop stem
• Redshift Shock Stop Utility Mount and a GoPro handlebar mount for the Lezyne headlight
• Redshift Shock Stop seat-post
• 38 or 42 mm Specialized Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss. I recommend the tubeless setup although I ride them tubed

I have done all this on my Vado SL 4.0 EQ and ride the machine of my dreams (I have just participated in a 160 mile gravel race in difficult terrain on that e-bike).

The issue with your non-EQ is the tail-light. You might buy a Kinekt 2.1 27.2 mm suspension seatpost and drill a hole in the post to route the tail-light cable. It is described in these Forums.

View attachment 156682\\
My Vado SL exactly 2 years post-purchase with all mods.

Hi Stefan -

I am enjoying reading through this forum and appreciate all of your knowledge / expertise.

I plan on picking up a 4SL or 5SL soon. I am considering going the 4.0 route and following your path on the aforementioned suspension upgrades. I have two questions you might have guidance on. First, I weigh 275lbs and that is over the weight limit for the Shock Stop seat-post. Kinect has them with higher weight limits. Do you have ant recommendations? Secondly on the GoPro handlebar mount - is that the Lezyne GoPro LED adapter that's $3.59 in the states?

I am providing the plan to my LBS for their input and want to make sure I have my facts straight. Thank you for your help!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

First, I weigh 275lbs and that is over the weight limit for the Shock Stop seat-post. Kinect has them with higher weight limits.

Choose a Kinekt 2.1 and apply the hardest spring. Although I prefer ShockStop over Kinekt, both are equal performance and quality suspension seat-posts (that's why I keep the Kinekt on my Vado 6.0). The major difference: I have never experienced a pedal-bob with the ShockStop but it happens to Kinekt at high pedalling cadence (I've lost spare springs for that seat-post and cannot install the harder spring).

Secondly on the GoPro handlebar mount - is that the Lezyne GoPro LED adapter that's $3.59 in the states?

I use a GoPro handlebar mount that is custom made in China for a retailer in Poland; I am not happy very much with it. I really cannot say. Any GoPro mount that fits a regular 31.8 mm handlebar would be OK, as the Vado SL headlight is GoPro compatible.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Davestic: The GoPro handlebar out-front mount should be of a similar type:

https://www.amazon.com/VVHOOY-Motorcycle-Handlebar-Compatible-Discovery/dp/B07RJX8Q2J/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3LDXIG1JOC2IE&keywords=bike+handlebar+gopro+adapter&qid=1691024000&sprefix=bike+handlebar+gopro+adapter,aps,217&sr=8-3

There has to be the part of the adapter to hold on the handlebar near to the stem (31.8 mm diameter), and the other end would hold the headlight, the GoPro style. I cannot say whether the adapter under the link would be ideal but it looks promising. I admit it was not easy to find at least the one I have shown!

It is how you install it on the bar so the Lezyne lamp is at the proper orientation. You might use a layer of rubber between the adapter and the bar as a gasket for better friction.

 

[Davestic]

@Davestic: The GoPro handlebar out-front mount should be of a similar type:

https://www.amazon.com/VVHOOY-Motorcycle-Handlebar-Compatible-Discovery/dp/B07RJX8Q2J/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3LDXIG1JOC2IE&keywords=bike+handlebar+gopro+adapter&qid=1691024000&sprefix=bike+handlebar+gopro+adapter,aps,217&sr=8-3

There has to be the part of the adapter to hold on the handlebar near to the stem (31.8 mm diameter), and the other end would hold the headlight, the GoPro style. I cannot say whether the adapter under the link would be ideal but it looks promising. I admit it was not easy to find at least the one I have shown!


View attachment 159530
It is how you install it on the bar so the Lezyne lamp is at the proper orientation.

Thank you, Stefan! I have been looking and see a few possible options. I will take a look at this one also. Cheers!

 

[GuruUno]

It was actually 26 h 47 min start to finish including an overnight stay (you need to recharge all the Range Extenders sometime!) 12 h 47 min of pedalling net. All I wanted to say my mods (including SQlab Innerbarends) ensured a comfortable ride in rough terrain involving sand, mud, rutted dirt roads, pothole gravel etc. Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss are fast rolling on the pavement but grippy offroad because the tread becomes progressively more aggressive towards the outside. These tyres are very supple, which is important.

The reason I went for Pathfinders was reducing the rolling resistance for the pavement. When I tried more aggressive tyres, they stole the speed. (SL motor is not a powerhouse, and my legs cannot be any stronger than they are now!) YMMV!

Stefan,

You say, "you need to recharge all the Range Extenders sometime!", so on these bike rides with others, are you the only e-bike rider and/or there others who have non-ebikes?
Reasoning is, do they 'wait' for you? Does your time needed to charge batteries interfere with the other riders who may not wish to stop to wait for you?
My past experiences with group rides is that most times on the really competitive, interesting rides, I'm the only e-bike rider and most of the others are with the $10k carbon bikes and they just keep going, not ever really stopping unless necessary for hydration break of 5 or 10 minutes tops.
I've been there in the past with my previous Vado 5.0 and to carry a 10 lb. battery in some way is not easy.
I too had the Vado SL with the range extender and for the most part could get easily 100 miles if needed (I don't think I ever got over 63-64 miles, but had 50% remaining on battery on that ride with the combined power.
So I guess what I'm asking is do they wait for you or?