WTF,
Are you aware you totally contradicted(what I thought was a well thought out and worded) your last post, less than 24 hours ago. I'll keep my like on your post yesterday, though. lol
Need Software Support on my 2017 BULLS Bike...Resolution Found.
- Thread starter Goodair
- Start date
Are you aware you totally contradicted(what I thought was a well thought out and worded) your last post, less than 24 hours ago. I'll keep my like on your post yesterday, though. lol
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
Same here - the torque is clear on any significant grades on my bulls.
pxpaulx
Well-Known Member
RoadWrinkle
Active Member
No contradiction , I still think all manufactures should make sure free upgrades are available, just like BULLS did for the OP, my point is that the title is not true. From my experience, BULLS is very responsive with good customer service. The OP's complete take down was overkill. They do have a good reputation. I understand not being happy about an upgrade charge, but no need to tarnish their name when they did in fact solve his problem.
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I totally agree with the overkill part. During this thread I noted more than once it would take a far bigger wrong than he endured for me to even consider headlining a post meant to harm a company's reputation. Fortunately, imo, his credibility shrank during thread. Squeaky wheel does get the grease, but the boy who cried wolf is also a good lesson.
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Piedmont Highlands
The original poster of the thread can change the title at any time. Just below the title there is "Thread Tools", which is the heading of a drop down menu. Click on that and choose edit title. The option is only available to the member that started the thread.
bob armani
Well-Known Member
fxr3-Yeah WTF is up with Roadwrinkle. Now it is between buyer and seller?? What happened to the BULLS product warranty. Is it now VOID because they have been exposed to a caveat in the system. What gives here? This is still a closed and shut case between BULLS and the buyer of the ebike IMHO.
If BULLS has no stated warranty on their products, then you basically have purchased the product 'AS IS' (as at a used car lot), and then you would be SOL on any future coverage. Period!
bob armani
Well-Known Member
RoadWrinkle- Did Bulls in fact meet with the owner and do the upgrade and rectify to his complete satisfaction? I did not see the full resolution posted. I may have missed that. Thanks!
RoadWrinkle
Active Member
These are opinions bob, if they get you all bent out of shape, try DECAF.
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Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
- City
- Halifax
I too feel that the title of this thread is little demeaning and should be changed.
BULLS is a young company in the US but from my experience, they are easy to work with and very supportive of their customers.
There are other companies that are arrogant and muscle you but BULLS has always been cordial. [no, I haven't taken the Bulls kool-aid
]
What is powerful and what is under-powered is a very relative term.
A friend of mine owns Pedego Ridge Rider, Haibike and a BULLS. He really likes the BULLS because he enjoys biking a lot. But his kids and friends do not share his taste and like the Pedego Ridge Rider, which has a powerful hub motor.
Those who have ridden Stromer, think Bosch/Brose/Yamaha are all under powered. Those who have unlocked BBS-HD think everything else is crap and their Bafang is the S%^$.
All the mid-drive folks think hub motors are old technology etc. Unless we have ridden a bike for 500+ miles, all that we read and hear is going to be 2-dimensional. There are great benefits to a well-tuned DD hub for road riding, mid-drives defeinitely have their place for trails and eMTB.
That begs the question, if Brose motor is under-powered why would big companies like Specialized and BH risk their millions of $ investment and go with Brose? I think their engineers are smart enough to discern what would work best for their investment.
BULLS is a young company in the US but from my experience, they are easy to work with and very supportive of their customers.
There are other companies that are arrogant and muscle you but BULLS has always been cordial. [no, I haven't taken the Bulls kool-aid
]What is powerful and what is under-powered is a very relative term.
A friend of mine owns Pedego Ridge Rider, Haibike and a BULLS. He really likes the BULLS because he enjoys biking a lot. But his kids and friends do not share his taste and like the Pedego Ridge Rider, which has a powerful hub motor.
Those who have ridden Stromer, think Bosch/Brose/Yamaha are all under powered. Those who have unlocked BBS-HD think everything else is crap and their Bafang is the S%^$.
All the mid-drive folks think hub motors are old technology etc. Unless we have ridden a bike for 500+ miles, all that we read and hear is going to be 2-dimensional. There are great benefits to a well-tuned DD hub for road riding, mid-drives defeinitely have their place for trails and eMTB.
That begs the question, if Brose motor is under-powered why would big companies like Specialized and BH risk their millions of $ investment and go with Brose? I think their engineers are smart enough to discern what would work best for their investment.
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JRA
Well-Known Member
I know that Bosch has tech and service support through Magura here in the states and regularly has classes around the country on how to do service work for bike shops. In fact they were reluctant to even bring their product in to the US until they had a service plan in place.
I am not seeing that level of commitment of support from Brose and Yamaha but I am thinking that they are certainly aware the fact that they should. Will S provide technical service instruction to their dealers and then agree to work on Brose motors installed on other makes? Will Yamaha just have you go to the local moto shop for service? I highly doubt either scenario will occur. There are diagnostic codes that point to the problem but who will get them to go away?
Because there is one thing that is going to happen and that eventually the electronics will break and need parts and service. The standard bike stuff is easy enough to get done on your own or at a bike shop but when a controller goes bad or you burn up the motor windings flogging it up a hill too hard with no temp sensor to tell you to back off and your battery starts to fade after point of sale support becomes a pretty big consideration.
And one more thing, the Shimano E8000 is getting speced on a lot of brands now and that will add more proprietary components and technical knowledge necessary for service. So put them on the pile also.
I am not seeing that level of commitment of support from Brose and Yamaha but I am thinking that they are certainly aware the fact that they should. Will S provide technical service instruction to their dealers and then agree to work on Brose motors installed on other makes? Will Yamaha just have you go to the local moto shop for service? I highly doubt either scenario will occur. There are diagnostic codes that point to the problem but who will get them to go away?
Because there is one thing that is going to happen and that eventually the electronics will break and need parts and service. The standard bike stuff is easy enough to get done on your own or at a bike shop but when a controller goes bad or you burn up the motor windings flogging it up a hill too hard with no temp sensor to tell you to back off and your battery starts to fade after point of sale support becomes a pretty big consideration.
And one more thing, the Shimano E8000 is getting speced on a lot of brands now and that will add more proprietary components and technical knowledge necessary for service. So put them on the pile also.
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Alphbetadog
Active Member
I have a Haibike Xduro FS emtb with the Bosch CX motor, and a Bulls E-Stream Enduro FS emtb with the Brose motor. I like riding the Bulls significantly more due to the more more intuitive Brose power delivery. Sure, the Bosch has a little more of a "kick" right off the start when in the highest setting (Turbo), but I feel the Brose is more powerful and really assists when needed. The more I give it, the more it gives. I can climb the same steep rocky hills with either, but the Brose just feels more powerful. I especially like how quiet the Brose is compared to the racket the Bosch makes.
I totally agree with Ravi on the mid vs. hub drives. I also have two hub drives that I like better for riding around town.
I totally agree with Ravi on the mid vs. hub drives. I also have two hub drives that I like better for riding around town.
Goodair
Member
The title has been changed. I want BULLS to succeed, I like their products, our group of friends have other BULLS bikes, but support goes both ways. We supported them with the initial purchase, there are a lot of brands and models to chose from, the choices will be even more next year. I am hoping that my issue and others will be resolved soon.
Lets close this thread and move forward!!!
Lets close this thread and move forward!!!
bob armani
Well-Known Member
Hey RoadWinkle-Take a chill pill. It is all good over here. We are all just a bunch of people trying to find an amicable resolution. Ride Safe . I enjoy yours and other opinions alike. Take Care and always ride safe dude!
bob armani
Well-Known Member
Well said Goodair and I like the title change. This was an awesome thread with no harm done to the mfg's reputation on the outset. Perhaps we will need to be a little bit more delicate on future posts of this nature. However, a wealth of information here IMHO. Hope all goes well!
RoadWrinkle
Active Member
IMO, there is no doubt the brose drive system has less power, but agree the big companies and their engineers know what they are doing. This was not an engineering mistake. Brose technology is focused on the market segment that wants an ebike to feel like a non-ebike. Riders that want all the performance of a MTB, with a little help getting up the hills. The only debate is whether a particular rider wants that experience or not. That brose motors have less power has been objectively shown to be the case by eMTB mag as well as several ride reports from new BULLS/brose owners (including myself). The larger discussion of course has to do with the apparent collusion between the big mid drive manufacturers to enforce a 250-350w/36v, PAS only, conservative motor regime on the public by offering no other choices.
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I am feeling contrary today(and i cant help respond:/
Im feelng contrary today, and this post will likely not help anybody...... i rode brose powered bulls45, a habike with cx motor and a yamaha powered giant at long beach expo. I really thought they felt the same powerwise, and reconfirmed that the other day by riding a bosch cx again. I never recall Brose or mfg. usng their motors suggesting they are designed for those seeking mountan bike experience with a little help up the hils(if you could tell me where to read that- i'll stand corrected). There is nothing natural about walking up a 4-1 slope with no effort in low gear, just as it doesnt feel natural moving along at 28 mph on st2 with minumal effort.
The great emountainbike magazine that called brose power feeble and worse were the ones that suggested software manipuation could improve performance. They also promised in issue #10 there would be a article about motors from different mfgs, pros and cons, etc.
Detailing these questions we have about mid drive motors.
Now, may 10, still no issue #10 or any mention on their website or facebook why #10 is late. You would think after talking smack about Brose, they would want to be on time detailing why they think Brose is underpowered.
I am also curious why any of these companies do not come up with a substanially more powerful mid drive- seems like it would be a good seller
E-Wheels
Well-Known Member
Most, if not all of the mid drives currently on the market are more than capable of producing >250W of power but are restricted to comply with local regulations and to compliment frame designs and the mechanical components within the drive train. More power = more torque, and as they say...."its only as strong as the weakest (chain) link"
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