Narrowing down to three Choices

J

John D C

New Member
I think I've narrowed down my choices for first ebike to three: Rise1Up Limited (torque) Dost Kope (cadence) or Crosscurrent X (both cadence and torque). How would your evaluate these differences? Also rear hub vs. mid-mount (Kope)? Are there other aspects of these bikes that factor more or less into the decision? Kope would be stretching the budget about to the max.

I'm 68, not in great shape but improving. Have somewhat sensitive knees and hip. Will be doing pleasure riding around town and 20 mile (both ways) commutes a couple/few times a week. I want the speed to keep up with traffic when necessary and the throttle for when I wear out...

Thanks for any thoughts.
 
Thanks for those. Very helpful. There's also the difference in motor torque: Crosscurrent X--80nM, Limited--100nM, Kope--120nM. How much am I going to feel that on moderate hills?
 
I am 68 with some hip deterioration issues. I need a step thru frame. Most of my life I could easily ride a bike with a cross bar. But I can no longer easily throw my leg over the seat.

very hard to change tires with a rear hub.
 
Katysax said:
I am 68 with some hip deterioration issues. I need a step thru frame. Most of my life I could easily ride a bike with a cross bar. But I can no longer easily throw my leg over the seat.

very hard to change tires with a rear hub.
Click to expand...

After you've done a couple, it shouldn't take the average DIY'er more than half an hour. If anyone tells you different, my bet is they've never done it. That said, it's not something I would want to do on the side of a trail.

Hub vs. mid not as important as having a throttle from my perspective. From there it's about personal tastes. Just like there's always going to be folks that prefer a stick shift transmission over an automatic in their car.
 
Of the three, the CrossCurrent X will probably be the most efficient on your 20 mile commute, but you will pay for that with the harshest ride of the three (due to the tire & wheel combo compared to the others). It also appears to have the most aggressive riding position (leaned forward) of the three, but this can easily be changed. It has a great big battery, very good power and speed, and everything you need to start using it right away (fenders, rack, lights). Torque sensing gives a rider more control of a bike's power in my opinion, and the included throttle helps those with knee and hip issues (especially when starting from a stop, but also when tired). Is it also the only one of the three currently in stock and available for immediate shipment? My experience with Juiced produces is very good based on my RipCurrent S (while we await our pre-ordered HyperScrambler for my wife).

The R1U Limited seems like it will be an awesome bike with the power, speed and thumb throttle you want and need. Wheel/tire combo on this bike will result in a softer ride (larger tire air volume takes the edge off rough road surfaces) without losing too much efficiency. Once again - torque sensing with throttle, good battery (but smaller capacity than CrossCurrent), good power motor and speed. Looks like it comes 'bare' as a recreational bike, but does not include fenders, rack or light of a dedicated commuter. This could be good (you get to choose all your own components) or bad (you can't find components that you like or will fit and there will be an extra cost to purchase and have installed). Looks like it is available in 2 configurations ("Commuter" and "Riser"), with the Commuter model being more upright/comfortable. We have had a good experience with R1U produces based on our 700 series bike.

Sorry but I can't give too much feedback on the Kope. It looks O.K. I guess, and it has the larger tires like the Limited for a softer ride. It has the smallest capacity battery of the 3, but has the mid-drive motor with mega torque. Comes with the rack, lights and fenders, and provides an adjustable stem to get a comfortable riding position. I just never really looked much into these as after all the pre-availability 'publicity', what ended up getting launched was kind of an expensive yawn to me.

Hope some of this helps!
 
AHicks said:
After you've done a couple, it shouldn't take the average DIY'er more than half an hour. If anyone tells you different, my bet is they've never done it. That said, it's not something I would want to do on the side of a trail.
Click to expand...

i can change the tire on most bikes in 10-15 minutes. To change the tire on my rear hub bike requires the right wrench to get off the tire, cutting the zip ties that hold the wires in place, disconnecting the motor, then after changing the tire it requires the same in reverse. It means carrying an extra wrench, something to cut the ties, and extra ties. in addition the presence of the motor makes the tire harder to work with. For me it turns a 10 minute job into one that takes 45 minutes to an hour. I do still sometimes ride my rear hub bike but I’d be very reluctant to use it for commuting.
 
As mentioned, not something I would want to do on the side of the trail. You can save yourself a lot of time and trouble by leaving the electrical connected (usually without cutting tie wraps), and removing/replacing the tube and tire from the opposite side of the hub.
 
Katysax said:
i can change the tire on most bikes in 10-15 minutes. To change the tire on my rear hub bike requires the right wrench to get off the tire, cutting the zip ties that hold the wires in place, disconnecting the motor, then after changing the tire it requires the same in reverse. It means carrying an extra wrench, something to cut the ties, and extra ties. in addition the presence of the motor makes the tire harder to work with. For me it turns a 10 minute job into one that takes 45 minutes to an hour. I do still sometimes ride my rear hub bike but I’d be very reluctant to use it for commuting.
Click to expand...

I agree after reading this post from the owner of Island City Bikes.

 
FlatSix911 said:
I agree after reading this post from the owner of Island City Bikes.

Click to expand...
I find this article to be biased and half the time plain wrong.
Negatives of a hub, as per ICB:

1. Shipping is expensive as your have to ship an entire wheel. Or, you can order only the motor and have it laced into a rim when it arrives. However, that is expensive.

Not expensive, you can order entire wheel from $100 incl. shipping, a better hub will cost more. Not true, you can open the lid and swap the guts without lacing in/out.

2. A front hub motor is dangerous.

Not sure. 90-95% of hub bikes are rear, anyway.

3. Hub motors are heavy...very heavy.

9 lbs 500W hub with controller, 9 lbs 500W BBS02.

...Some electric bikes with hub motors weigh up to 70 pounds.

And many weigh 50-55 pounds.

... The are some hub motors that are light but they are only 250 watts

Not true.

5. A rider cannot repair a flat while out on the road.

Not true.

... It is a many step process to remove a hub motor in order to fix a flat. First, you have to lift the bike off the ground or turn it upside down. That is impossible for most riders due to the weight of the bike. You have to carry wrenches as the wheel is bolted to the frame.

You don't have to remove a hub motor, and you absolutely can turn 50-60 lbs bike upside down by rolling it around without lifting the heavy rear. You have to carry wrenches with any bike that has no quick release, be it with hub motor or not.

6. Bikes with hub motors are so heavy they cannot be carried on standard bike racks for cars.

Mostly not true.

7. Hub motors are typically sealed and cannot be repaired.

Not typically sealed, and they are rarely repaired simply because it's cheaper and easier to replace it.

8. Hub motors make it impossible to adjust the disk brake pads because the motor blocks access.

Not always true.
 
Alex M said:
I find this article to be biased and half the time plain wrong.
Negatives of a hub, as per ICB:

1. Shipping is expensive as your have to ship an entire wheel. Or, you can order only the motor and have it laced into a rim when it arrives. However, that is expensive.
Not expensive, you can order entire wheel from $100 incl. shipping, a better hub will cost more. Not true, you can open the lid and swap the guts without lacing in/out.

2. A front hub motor is dangerous.
Not sure. 90-95% of hub bikes are rear, anyway.

3. Hub motors are heavy...very heavy.
9 lbs 500W hub with controller, 9 lbs 500W BBS02.

...Some electric bikes with hub motors weigh up to 70 pounds.
And many weigh 50-55 pounds.

... The are some hub motors that are light but they are only 250 watts
Not true.

5. A rider cannot repair a flat while out on the road.
Not true.

... It is a many step process to remove a hub motor in order to fix a flat. First, you have to lift the bike off the ground or turn it upside down. That is impossible for most riders due to the weight of the bike. You have to carry wrenches as the wheel is bolted to the frame.
You don't have to remove a hub motor, and you absolutely can turn 50-60 lbs bike upside down by rolling it around without lifting the heavy rear. You have to carry wrenches with any bike that has no quick release, be it with hub motor or not.

6. Bikes with hub motors are so heavy they cannot be carried on standard bike racks for cars.
Mostly not true.

7. Hub motors are typically sealed and cannot be repaired.
Not typically.

8. Hub motors make it impossible to adjust the disk brake pads because the motor blocks access.
Not always true.
Click to expand...

You may not agree with his opinion, but the owner has been building Ebikes for years and certainly makes some valid points.

He builds with the Bafang mid-drive and could choose to use any hub drive and probably make significantly more profit.

Check out his other blogs... some very interesting information on the EBike conversion process from start to finish. ;)

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

"Many electric bike companies that sell their electric bikes online at incredibly low prices also have a hub motor on their bikes. One of things that is always missing from their promotional material is the weight of their hub motor electric bikes. They omit the weight of the bike because they are very heavy due to the hub motor. At our shop, the number one complaint we hear about hub motor driven electric bikes is weight and a lack of power. It is not an exaggeration to say that millions of electric bikes are produced throughout the world with a hub motor. As a manufacturer of electric bikes we are contacted weekly by Asian eBike companies asking us to buy these hub motor electric bikes with our logo on the frames. We politely refuse and tell them we will stay with the reliable, lightweight Bafang mid drive.

It has been said that I do not like hub drive electric bikes because I am a retailer of Bafang mid drive motors. First, I am not a retailer of Bafang motors. In fact, at Island City Bikes we do not sell anything to the general public. Our speciality is converting standard bikes into electric bikes using the best motor on the market and that happens to be the Bafang mid drive. We warranty the Bafang motor for one year...out of our own pocket. That is how confident we are in the reliability of the Bafang motor.

Are all hub motors bad? No, there is a wide spectrum of electric bike hub motors ranging from terrible to excellent. Some hub motors are small, lightweight, and of high quality. However these motors are very limited in power, torque and speed, and they can be triple the price of a Bafang mid drive. There are some riders who want to ride an electric bike but do not want to be seen riding an electric bike. That is the market the small hub motor dealer is looking to reach. Then there are the large high powered electric hub motors. These motors can go up to 3000 watts. Again, they are very, very heavy motors.

We do not build with hub motors as there are too many negatives and too little positives when it comes to an electric hub motor. Nearly everyone I know in the industry that sells electric bike motors do not sell hub motors. The reason they state is that the quality is so poor they have too many people asking for refunds. Hub motors are made by the millions and are used on more electric bikes throughout the world than any other type of motor. They are ubiquitous because they are inexpensive."

Alvin Carpenter, PhD
 
Last edited:
Katysax said:
I am 68 with some hip deterioration issues. I need a step thru frame. Most of my life I could easily ride a bike with a cross bar. But I can no longer easily throw my leg over the seat.

very hard to change tires with a rear hub.
Click to expand...
Your right about the tire. There's no easy way to do a rear hub motor, but practice makes perfect, (i'm getting there). That said,
I still prefer the rear hub. There a wide variety of step-thrus out there. Something with a fat tire might be more comfortable, but
those tires are costly. I'd say something 500w+ & a low gear range that can get you there on throttle alone should the need arise.
I'll take a look at the step-thru EBRs for something that might suit you. I've found a bike need not be expensive to
serve one's needs. How much do you plan to ride? What's your budget?
 
John D C said:
I think I've narrowed down my choices for first ebike to three: Rise1Up Limited (torque) Dost Kope (cadence) or Crosscurrent X (both cadence and torque). How would your evaluate these differences? Also rear hub vs. mid-mount (Kope)? Are there other aspects of these bikes that factor more or less into the decision? Kope would be stretching the budget about to the max.

I'm 68, not in great shape but improving. Have somewhat sensitive knees and hip. Will be doing pleasure riding around town and 20 mile (both ways) commutes a couple/few times a week. I want the speed to keep up with traffic when necessary and the throttle for when I wear out...

Thanks for any thoughts.
Click to expand...

Try this video too.

 
John D C said:
I think I've narrowed down my choices for first ebike to three: Rise1Up Limited (torque) Dost Kope (cadence) or Crosscurrent X (both cadence and torque). How would your evaluate these differences? Also rear hub vs. mid-mount (Kope)? Are there other aspects of these bikes that factor more or less into the decision? Kope would be stretching the budget about to the max.

I'm 68, not in great shape but improving. Have somewhat sensitive knees and hip. Will be doing pleasure riding around town and 20 mile (both ways) commutes a couple/few times a week. I want the speed to keep up with traffic when necessary and the throttle for when I wear out...

Thanks for any thoughts.
Click to expand...

Just purchased two mid drive bikes for 4K total. One is urban + trail (light) Giant and other is Fuji more mountain. Do your homework and research. I found the Fuji on line for a steal and the Giant at a local bike shop for $400 hundred off. Both are 2018 models. Look at Aventon too.

I rode the Radpower bikes and did not feel "integrated" with the bike. I felt like I needed to learn about motor surge. Torque sensing in mid drives is beautiful!
 
John D C said:
I think I've narrowed down my choices for first ebike to three: Rise1Up Limited (torque) Dost Kope (cadence) or Crosscurrent X (both cadence and torque). How would your evaluate these differences? Also rear hub vs. mid-mount (Kope)? Are there other aspects of these bikes that factor more or less into the decision? Kope would be stretching the budget about to the max.

I'm 68, not in great shape but improving. Have somewhat sensitive knees and hip. Will be doing pleasure riding around town and 20 mile (both ways) commutes a couple/few times a week. I want the speed to keep up with traffic when necessary and the throttle for when I wear out...

Thanks for any thoughts.
Click to expand...

This video is beyond what you want, but an excellent demonstration of difference in motor type. I leaned toward mid drive before, but did NOT like the price points, which are higher. I'm glad I just kept looking everywhere for what I wanted. I may still buy a high powered hub ebike, but it will be strictly for flat surfaces/roads.

 
John D C said:
You all have given me so much help! I need to get out and try some now, and your info will help me know what I'm looking for. Thanks.
Click to expand...

John, good luck with your test rides... let us know what you like. ;)
 
Katysax said:
I am 68 with some hip deterioration issues. I need a step thru frame. Most of my life I could easily ride a bike with a cross bar. But I can no longer easily throw my leg over the seat.

very hard to change tires with a rear hub.
Click to expand...
Barring the rear tire hassle, the Rad Rover step-thus looks a fair amount of value for the price. They have a variety of step-thrus
actually. The Rover looks comfortable though I'd use a different saddle. The specs indicate good power & range of gears. distance might
factor in on a long commute, but appears adequate for recreation. I looked at a lot of more costly step-thrus didn't really offer as much
yet at a higher price.
As far a rear tire change, I am not familiar with Rad dropouts. It is a bit simpler with my current bike than the first one. I've put on a
double leg kickstand that let's me rock the wheel off the ground to drop & replace the wheel in the field. This is much simpler than
the other bike which had asymmetrical stays & the derailleur to contend with. I just slip the chain off the chainring 1st.
 
Rad makes bikes that hit price points. I think they are brilliant at figuring out the market. I see a lot of Rad bikes on the street. Don’t kid yourself there are a myriad of refinements on more expensive bikes. You may or may not value them but things like higher quality brakes or derailleur or other components make a difference in things like durability or smoothness. Im not trashing Rad; I would consider buying one myself. I think they are, in their way, quite brilliant. But it’s still true that you generally get what you pay for. I paid about $1000 for my Veego and have over 3000 miles on it. I love the bike but I can show you myriad ways they cheaped out in making it; most obvious are the brakes that need constant adjustment and dodgy shifter. My Specialized Como which cost almost 4x as much as the Veego is 10x more refined And those refinements make a real difference in the ride experience. There are still times I ride the Veego and I still enjoy it. I do realize the Veego is not a Rad but I’ve looked at a lot of them and looked at the specs and like any product they make trade offs. I’m not pushing you to buy a more expensive bike; I’m just pointing out that you generally get more when you pay more. You just might not value the “more” that you get or you might not have the experience yet to see the value.

The tire issue is real. I am an experienced cyclist and Ive changed a lot of tires. i actually like a lot about rear hubs. But I do think the tire issue complicates use of a rear hub bike for commuting.
 
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