My DIY builds: GMAC, BBSHD, 9C RH212, CYC Photon, ToSeven DM01

[linklemming]

Im guessing that motor had about 250 miles on it. I dont deny I beat on it but it was using factory settings. I was trying to find its limits and I succeeded Many others in discord have reported blown controllers running 30A during hill climbs.

Thanks for the positive Ali feedback, I just ordered two controllers from To7 on Ali. Supposed to be here in 2 weeks

We will see if these controllers have newer firmware that locks out many settings or even worse limits speeds.

IMHO. the CYC can be reliable at lower power levels (750 watts or less). I am running it at its highest unrestricted power levels but I always monitor temps and have only overheated it once or twice and most of the time I'm probably using 3-500 watts. Its pretty impressive for its size.

 

[linklemming]

Reduced Battery Capacity after 3-4 years
I do most of my rides using two EM3EV 52V 17AH(14S,5P 18650) batteries. The first (BATT1) uses 35E cells and was bought in 9/21. The second (BATT2) uses GA cells and was bought in 9/22.

I seem to be doing about 6k miles per year between these two batteries with an average ride length of 25 miles so thats about 240 cycles per year. This 6k miles also includes 1-2 rides per week (20-40 miles) in spring/summer/fall on dedicated eMTBs with different batteries.

While testing the DM01 and comparing against BBSHD I was seeing reduced efficiency on the DM01. In the end I believe a big part was one of my batteries starting to give out. As it turns out, I think I was always running the DM01 on BATT2 and the BBSHD on BATT1. The DM01 eventually had a FET failure so who knows how that affected efficiency before final failure.

Did a load test of 4A on a fully charged battery(BATT1 and BATT2) and saw 1.9V drop on BATT2 and .9 on BATT1 so roughly speaking twice the voltage drop on BATT2 which equates to twice the Internal Resistance(IR) which is the factor that ages a battery.

I have always 'fully charged' the packs. Everytime I have tried charging to 80-90%, I get too much range anxiety. Im willing to live with the reduced battery life in doing this.

While its hard to quantify 'exactly' due to all the various ride conditions like temp/wind etc..., Over the last BBSHD rides, it appears that BATT2 consumes about 3wh/mile more than BATT1.

The 35E cells and GA cells new seem to have the same IR new and the GA cell is 'supposed to be better'. Im guessing something in the GA pack isnt up to par (for instance it takes a really LONG time to balance at end of charge).

Both packs are the "Jumbo size" (14S,5P 18650 cells).

Looks like its time to retire BATT2. I could keep milking it but batteries to me are wear items like chains, cassettes, brake pads and tires. This will be the fourth pack I have retired since 2019.

New EM3EV 21700 packs
EM3EV is now selling 21700 14S, 4P 52V 19.6AH 'King' shark packs. Unfortunately they are 2# heavier than the 'Jumbo'. On the plus side they are $100 cheaper than the 'Jumbo' 18650 based packs but have increased current output (i.e lower IR). There are alot of new trails opening up around me this year which could increase trip distance and I really could use the additional range of the 'King' pack.

Just ordered a new 'King' Pack, most likely a second soon.

 

[Gionnirocket]

The GA cells are rated with a higher max discharge rate of 10a compared to 8a of the 35E and this was my reason for trying them in a small battery. Though they've worked well they just don't seem to be as robust compared to the 35E batteries I've used, especially in cold weather.
My experience is very anecdotal as my GA battery is only 10ah and my 35E batteries were/are 17.5ah and 21ah... So I'm kinda comparing oranges to tangerines. The GA battery has and still is working well... but it doesn't see much action lately.
Point being... I really don't have one
I think moving to the 21700 cells is a good choice as I have only heard good things about them.
I'm contemplating a light weight 12ah battery for my typical 20 —25ml daily exercise ride and if I do pull the trigger.. it'll be with 21700

 

[Slaphappygamer]

I would love to get a battery with 21700 cells. Unfortunately, my battery is integrated in to the frame and the case can only fit 52 18650 cells. I’ve been looking for a Hailong or triangle battery that would fit, but there isn’t much space. For the ride1up 700 series, they now (since ‘22) come with 21700 cell packs. These are longer (441mm) than the battery I currently have (362.5mm). I have been thinking “I might be able to cut the frame to fit the larger battery”, but that’s pretty desperate and then I’d be limiting space for my controller, unless I mount fit outside the frame. The existing 35E pack runs well for my needs.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I would love to get a battery with 21700 cells. Unfortunately, my battery is integrated in to the frame and the case can only fit 52 18650 cells. I’ve been looking for a Hailong or triangle battery that would fit, but there isn’t much space. For the ride1up 700 series, they now (since ‘22) come with 21700 cell packs. These are longer (441mm) than the battery I currently have (362.5mm). I have been thinking “I might be able to cut the frame to fit the larger battery”, but that’s pretty desperate and then I’d be limiting space for my controller, unless I mount fit outside the frame. The existing 35E pack runs well for my needs.

Have you tried @Jenny Mao ?
She can custom build batteries using different cases.

 

[Slaphappygamer]

Have you tried @Jenny Mao ?
She can custom build batteries using different cases.

Yes. I contacted her. I think there was some misunderstanding on my part. The case she was talking about was the larger (IR-7/IR-21700) version of what I have. I have been looking around and I don’t see my batttery (Reention Rhino IR-5) with anything other than 18650. I was thinking of contacting her again and requesting different cells. Maybe molicel, I hear good things about those.

 

[JRA]

SHG, I was an early adopter of 2170 cells as I thought they were perhaps marginally better for use in eBikes. I am going to put an emphasis on marginally.....as time has gone on for sure companies have adopted them and why not as margins are good for business. But if as you say your current 18650 cell pack is doing well for you don't feel left out as you would probably never even notice any difference.

 

[linklemming]

DM01 Update #1
I received the two new DM01 controllers yesterday. Kudos to AliExpress getting it to me in 10 days.

With the exception of making sure all the wires were ok when bolting the controller back on, replacing the controller was super easy.

The old controller SW Version: V06207 (Aug 2024)
The new controller SW Version: V06400 (Dec 2024)

According to the DM01/DM02 wiki (link posted previously) this newer firmware version should have the reduced speed limits and locked out advanced menu. It should support the torque sensor better when the unit gets hot.

That being said, I seem to be able to get into the advanced menus so all should be good.

Will post more when I reinstall it on a bike.

 

[linklemming]

DM01 Update #2
Well it turns out after spending two hours swapping the CYC with the DM01, no DM01 settings can be saved (not even the simple things like units (metric/british) and wheelsize. They can be changed but they are not saved

Very disappointed with ToSeven

 

[linklemming]

DM01 Update #3
I seem to have gotten my DM01 setup working now.

Had to flash new display software. This allows the 'simple' menu changes for things like units (metric/british) and wheel size to be edited and saved.

Went on a test ride.

With it set to british units (mph), the motor definately stopped producing PAS/torque derived output at about 24mph (40kmh) as expected. I stopped and did the mph-kph trick where you set the units to kph and set wheelsize to 60% which will show mph although labeled as kph, effectively giving a speed limit of 40mph. This worked well.

Battery percentage was way off so that was changed (you can equate actual voltage to 0,20,40,60,0,100%). This used to be in the advanced menu but has been moved to the simple menu.

Finally figured out how to get to the advanced menus. There seems to be a gentlemens agreement in not showing how this is done so it can be easily found so I wont share that info here so it can be easily found in a google search.

The only real things I like to change in the advanced menu is the speed limit per assist level. I set the speed limit to 60kph for all assist levels.

The old amp limits were something like 16/21/30 (I blew a controller at 30a)

The new amp limits are 10/18/23 and I see no reason to change them.

I see maximum power at 1100 watts.

 

[linklemming]

DM01 Update #4
I am coming to terms with the DM01...and liking it. Its not the end all of all ebikes as the To7 whisperer (pedaluma) suggests but its good enough.

Until just recently, all my DM01 rides seemed to consume more power than I expected. The bottom line is that I just had it in too high of an assist setting. Once I lowered the assist level, I see about the same wh/mile as my BBSHD (18wh/mile for average speed of 17mph over 17.5 miles with same average heartrate). Ironically the CYC photon has done these same ride params at 14.5wh/mile.

My previous statements about using the DM01 with a battery with higher IR/sag being the issue I think is false. While it does contribute to overall efficiency, its not that much. The CYC photon 14.5wh/mile ride was with this same battery.

My issues with startup being slow seems to be gone with the new controller and/or firmware. The DM01 now seems to startup almost instantly but the initial surge can be a little high for my taste (explained below). I dont feel like I need a throttle to compensate for this anymore although the throttle turned out to be useless for compensation and riding in general.

The DM01 has 3 modes (default values...can be changed)
Eco - Max 10A
City - 18A
Sport - 23A

I have my DM01 set up for 5 assist levels for every mode called EAssist L1-L5 with values in percentage.

The way these seem to work (from the wiki...mostly plus my experience) is that the EAssist value is the starting amount of power(based off percent of mode) the DM01 will use once it sees user input via the torque sensor. The default values are 20,40,60,80,100%. The power will then increase based on user input until the max amps per the selected mode is reached.

An example for City/Assist L2 is initial power starts around 350W and maxes out at 850W. City/Assist L3 start out about 550W and goes to 850W. Assist L5 jumps right up to about 850W and is basically cadence mode. As can be expected, higher assist levels are more 'surgy' due the higher startup power levels.

This differs from systems like the grin CA/Phaserunner which specifies user input amplification (i.e. 1.5x) only. Not sure on other torque based systems but they all feel like they are based solely on user input amplification with 0 initial power onset.

The EAssist levels can not be any less than 10%. I tried it in City mode at 10% and LOVED it. Nice startup, no surging and more like I would like it to be.

Not sure how I will set it up yet knowing all of this, more testing to do.

Throttle is still completely useless even in the highest mode of 'scooter'. I can be pedaling along at 850W, stop pedaling and use only throttle and only see max power at 350W. Supposedly it increases based on actually pedaling but I dont see the point in that. I will be removing the throttle soon.

 

[linklemming]

DM01 Update #5

My previous comments on the throttle basically being useless wasnt 100% correct as today I tried it on a flat section in Sport Mode (23A) and Assist Level 5 and it got up to about 900W and 26mph at which point it would not go any faster (you could feel the motor stop assisting).

So apparently it is tied to the Mode(Eco, City, Sport) and Pwr Level settings (set to 20,40,60,80,100% for assist 1-5). I just didnt try it in the highest possible settings.

That being said, I want my throttle to be a 'master override' and it is not. The last thing I want to think at a stop is how its response will correlate to the Mode/Asssit level I am using.

It has been removed

I played with changing the lowest EAsist level to 10% and it wasnt all that different from its default of 20% so I set it back.

Did a ride today staying mostly in City Mode and Assist Level 1 and got 16.5wh/mile for a 18.5 mile ride, 1045ft elevation gain averaging 16.5mph. These are pretty good numbers

All the modes and assist levels seem redundant and confusing but actually gives alot of options on how you want to make the bike feel.