My 1000w motor journey and fear mongering by users of the forum!

[Calibike]

Ebikes with 1kw is bad
Cars with 250kw and top speeds of 150mph is ok?
Where can you legally drive 150? Or even 100 mph (160 kmh)?

When i ride on the right lane where i am legally allowed to i get horned and yelled at by drivers even if i am going 25 to 30.

Ebikes are too heavy. I use ebike as car replacement in los Angeles. Use ebike and metro. But carrying 60lb ebike up and down metro stairs was too much. So i designed the 33c3 33lb 33mph 1500w ebike. Its my daily driver

 

[J.R.]

Ebikes with 1kw is bad
Cars with 250kw and top speeds of 150mph is ok?
Where can you legally drive 150? Or even 100 mph (160 kmh)?

Bad is the wrong word. The laws we have for ebikes are limited by class, power and speed. Cars are not. Cars have to meet safety standards set by DOT and have to be registered and insured, drivers have to be tested and licensed. Through registration and licensing law enforcement are tasked with policing traffic and infractions are costly. If we don't want ebike limitations we can institute the same rules and regulations for ebikes we require for cars and motorcycles. As it stands anything above class 3 (750W, 28mph) is either an off road vehicle (ORV) or a motorcycle. Many ORV's, ATV's these days have to be registered. I'm not sure ebikers really want the added regulation and expense.

 

[Taylor57]

Ebikes with 1kw is bad
Cars with 250kw and top speeds of 150mph is ok?
Where can you legally drive 150? Or even 100 mph (160 kmh)?

When i ride on the right lane where i am legally allowed to i get horned and yelled at by drivers even if i am going 25 to 30.

Ebikes are too heavy. I use ebike as car replacement in los Angeles. Use ebike and metro. But carrying 60lb ebike up and down metro stairs was too much. So i designed the 33c3 33lb 33mph 1500w ebike. Its my daily driver

Love the music, would love to see the bike. Seen enough of LA...

 

[PedalUma]

I agree with the thought that a motor's rating of nominal watts does not mean a lot. It is similar to seeing the EPA fuel economy of a car with the upside down thinking that the worst is somehow the 'best.' That considers only consumption and the production of waste heat. I am making a cargo bike for San Francisco. The triangle is small, so the battery is small, and the mid-motor puts out 85Nm. But it is getting an 11-47 cassette. Even when loaded it will take the hills. It will be class 3 so it can go just about anywhere without restrictions. An illegal bike might be fine, that is until someone gets hurt and the lawyers and DA look under the hood. Then it is deep 5hit time. This family in SF cares about family and community. They also have too much at stake to risk being tied to an outlaw bike hitting the fan.

 

[MrCaspan]

An illegal bike might be fine, that is until someone gets hurt and the lawyers and DA look under the hood. Then it is deep 5hit time. This family in SF cares about family and community. They also have too much at stake to risk being tied to an outlaw bike hitting the fan.

100% disagree with this statement about killing someone. It would not matter. So what happens if you are on a 500w bike going down hill and hit 45 km/h and you kill someone? Are you all of a sudden guilty? A case would have to be made that the speed caused the death. yes a 1000w bike COULD go faster but it does not mean it WAS going faster. It's a still worse case scenario and it's very edge case and should not be used to debate if it should be okay to drive one. It's a straw man argument that is easy to setup so you can knock it down to make a point. It's not relevant IMO as it's not an issue. Same as what if someone changes their own breaks... think of the kids what if they do it wrong and kill someone!! if we can deal with that with 2 ton cars on the road and let our kids walk to school my bike is not even an issue. This kind of argument is just 100% fear mongering and I don't accept it as a valid argument hence why I started this thread! think about your decisions and think and ask questions before you jump to worse case scenarios.What if you have illegal tint on your windows or illegal color lights under your car?? it would have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt it was the reason for the death. If it had nothing to do with the accident then it does not matter to the guilt. And even if it was 100% the reason why this is what insurance is for!

I'm not trying to be rude as text never conveys intent. it's a great question to ask and valid but of we don't really know the answers why are we spreading fear?

 

[AHicks]

There's also the thought that a bike with a lot of power might be a "custom". Making it exempt from many laws manufactured bikes might have to abide with.....

 

[Bubba zanetti]

Love the music, would love to see the bike. Seen enough of LA...

 

[Taylor57]

Just have never cared for the ebikes with a huge motor strapped on the downtube. But that's just me...

 

[Ebiker33]

@MrCaspan​

I agree with many of the you points make.

Ebike laws all over the world are very archaic, and really not enforced in North America, I see them all over the place, as I am on this site I am very familiar with the brands I am seeing, and I know they are over the wattage they are allowed, and have throttles.
But people are going very reasonable speeds and peddling, maybe possibly ghost peddling with a throttle too, also not allowed according to many.

What we need is new to up-to-date rules, that governs not power/wattage/torque/throttles but speed alone on trails and roads, what is the safe speed on a given road/trails for ebikes?
32/20 kmh/mph seems to be a safe speed on roadways with integrated bike paths I can agree to that.
Mix use trails is a different story, I feel it needs to be slower for everybody whatever devise you are using, post the safety limit and enforce it, ticket people, just like you ticket auto drivers for unsafe driving.
We don't ticket Porches just for being on the road, if they go 100 mph; then they get a ticket. It's not the car it's the driver.

Anybody that lives in super hilly areas know that climbing those hills is hard, and most ebikes can not even hit there max limit, my 750W ebike only goes about 15 kmh at max at the highest level assist and the throttle pinned.
It's slow and we aren't a threat to anybody on the trail walking.
To comply with my local laws I have my max speed set to 32/20 kph/mph I don't need to go faster, I also understand if I unlocked my controller for max speed pushing it to class 3, that if I were to crash, I could really hurt myself.
It's also a joke that the same exact Ebikes are marketed in Canada at 500W and the USA as 750W.

 

[MrCaspan]

To me it's a simple argument that everyone clouds up with different things.. ebikes are electric bicycles. Bikes must have 2 wheels, carries 1 passenger, has peddles that WORK to move the bike. Everything else is not a bike and should not fall under BIKE laws. If you have a cargo carrier, that is not a bike it's a cargo carrier so make a class for them that has nothing to do with bikes. They keep trying to make laws that cover everything mopeds, cargo carriers, all these different variants, make a single law for all BIKES not just ebikes that says 40km/h on the road and 25km/h on shared pathways & sidewalks. I don't care if an ebike or not.. why should it matter? if a bike can't hit that speed then it never matters to them but it applies to all BIKES. All these laws like class 1&2 are allowed on this path but class 3 is denied... WHY? because it HAS the potential to go faster? So all sports cars should not be allowed on the highways because they COULD go 200 km/h like common law makers think about it!

No one has ever presented to me an argument and I've talked to city council people in my area as to why there is a wattage and class laws. 95% of the law makers here just push down what the province says who also does not have a clue and copier another states or provinces boiler plate laws.

There are only 2 things I will agree on that are fact, ebikes can go faster and weigh more than a regular bike. That's it. lets deal with those facts only! Everything else is just silly overthinking, conjecture and antidotal opinions and worrying about what ifs.. We will figure it out just like we did with cars. Everyone is so scared and thinks rules have to exist before a product market can exist. Let's make a rule for every possible outcome before it happens. No let's use our brains and think what the big issues are which is speed and weight. Weight is not really an issue but when combined with speed it can do more damage. Put a speed law in place and then deal with REAL issues when they happen down the road. By real issues I mean not one outraged person making a stink about 1 accident that killed someone so all ebikes need to be banned. Cars kill thousands of people and no one says we should stop using them you just have to adjust the safety and make sure standards are created to ensure safety of everyone.

I'm Canadian and I am passionate about my rights and freedoms and it's important that we keep as many of them as possible and deal with real issues only when its an issue! I'm not a far left or far right either I think there is always room for discussion about topics but as long as people are making fair arguments and not just yelling form their side that they never plan to think or move on their opinion. I treat this stuff like science treats their hypothesis to an issue, it's based on all current knowledge and it's the best solution (it doe snot mean its right its just currently the best solution). As soon as more information comes to light you look at that and see if your hypothesis has to change to include this new data.. this is the same way we should treat everything!

Anyways I'll get off my soap box again! lol sorry for the long rant but as you can tell I am passionate about it!

 

[PedalUma]

A natural experiment happened in my area of California and it continues. One close by town put individual liberties first. My town put community first. Guess how they ended up. As for bikes they don't have any bike infrastructure. Our town has some of the best in North America and it gets better each week. A major downtown street will soon be closed to cars and open for people. We have amazing bike paths and bike lanes (as long as everyone cooperates). That other town never built a public library. And it is still filled with men who enjoy the company of men in leather and denim out in the woods. https://cityofpetaluma.org/5th-st-bike-blvd/

 

[MrCaspan]

I think every town should close down their downtown main street. there's no parking on it anyways. and if there is parking there's parking for maybe 50 cars max. everyone always has to go to the back parking lots to park. Just close all the streets and make it one big walkway...

 

[PedalUma]

I think every town should close down their downtown main street. there's no parking on it anyways. and if there is parking there's parking for maybe 50 cars max. everyone always has to go to the back parking lots to park. Just close all the streets and make it one big walkway...

40 years ago Sacramento, CA took a gamble. There was this shoddy crime riddled street a block or two from the state capitol. They closed it to traffic and laid down brick with things like trees, fountains, flowering plants, and low curved walls to sit on. The businesses complained. Now it is a destination with lots of great places to eat and meet and higher end stores and offices upstairs. It is the downtown commons, a crappy street is now essentially a huge outdoor shopping mall. The bricks and every original building are now gone.

 

[MrCaspan]

40 years ago Sacramento, CA took a gamble. There was this shoddy crime riddled street a block or two from the state capitol. They closed it to traffic and laid down brick with things like trees, fountains, flowering plants, and low curved walls to sit on. The businesses complained. Now it is a destination with lots of great places to eat and meet and higher end stores and offices upstairs. It is the downtown commons, a crappy street is now essentially a huge outdoor shopping mall. The bricks and every original building are now gone.

that sucks, how would people driving by make a difference to a store in downtown?

 

[tomjasz]

I think every town should close down their downtown main street. there's no parking on it anyways. and if there is parking there's parking for maybe 50 cars max. everyone always has to go to the back parking lots to park. Just close all the streets and make it one big walkway...

A complete failure here. It's coming back to life as a main street.

 

[PedalUma]

that sucks, how would people driving by make a difference to a store in downtown?

I was not sure if you were joking. I will answer seriously. If people are locked up in cars they are not spending money is shops and restaurants. They are just passing through. We want to be a destination with people walking and riding bikes. Not a blow-by.

 

[MrCaspan]

A complete failure here. It's coming back to life as a main street.

That's crazy I have to park 3 blocks away normally and walk to any store on my main street downtown. If it was closed to traffic I don't know how that would change. Most of our downtown parking is behind the building or a parking structure. I wonder why this would be such a change?

 

[MrCaspan]

I was not sure if you were joking. I will answer seriously. If people are locked up in cars they are not spending money is shops and restaurants. They are just passing through. We want to be a destination with people walking and riding bikes. Not a blow-by.

Wait maybe I am not understanding. I thought you said it failed that's why I was confused!! Sorry I misunderstood what you said. This makes more sense to me and I love the idea and In Kitchener, Ontario Downtown they are doing somewhat the same here!

 

[PedalUma]

Wait maybe I am not understanding. I thought you said it failed that's why I was confused!! Sorry I misunderstood what you said. This makes more sense to me and I love the idea and In Kitchener, Ontario Downtown they are doing somewhat the same here!

Here is the bike I made today. The idea is that it takes a car off the road. It has huge bags and can carry two kids, groceries and a small dog all at the same time. It has an 11-50 cassette and it is lightweight. Those tires support 160Kg each. It is legal class 3. Because it is a mid-drive the gears actually do something. The accelerator is modulated by pedal pressure, not thumb pressure so it feels natural.

 

[MrCaspan]

Here is the bike I made today. The idea is that it takes a car off the road. It has huge bags and can carry two kids, groceries and a small dog all at the same time. It has an 11-50 cassette and it is lightweight. Those tires support 160Kg each. It is legal class 3. Because it is a mid-drive the gears actually do something. The accelerator is modulated by pedal pressure, not thumb pressure so it feels natural.

This bike looks like it would shake your brain with every little bump. Not sure I could live without a full suspension now that I have one.