JRA
Well-Known Member
I use a Grin Cycle Analyst display, that among many other features interfaces with the controller and has a "cruise control" mode in the setup menu. It can be set to activate a 1,2 or 3 seconds. It allows you to set it at whatever speed you want to be going or how many watts you want the motor to produce. I have mine set so that just by holding the throttle for one second it will activate. I started with a 3 second mode but ended up at 1 as it is a conscious move and requires the throttle to be held still which sometimes isn't easy to do on gravé. It is easily disrupted by either hitting the throttle or the regen button which I have at either hand.
I tend to use it mainly on long clear stretches and for climbing long hills. I find that if I set the cc at 350w, select my gear of need, and some active pedaling long steep hills go by pretty fast while not eating many ah's while doing it. I use the regen button more coming back down though.
The largest part of my equation for me is using a front hub motor. That way my drivetrain is totally isolated from anything to do with the motor and can run any gear system I want. Most importantly it allows me to ride with just the right amount of input and cadence at any given time and a gear above and below that I can shift to as one would normally without any adjustments to the motor output.
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JRA
Well-Known Member
"New concept ... motorcycle with pedals and accelerator 750w but with driver's license and insurance and out of the bike lane and childrens 16 years old"
We've had those here for awhile actually, we call them Mopeds. They are regulated by the Federal Gov't's Department of Transportation. This means approved tire/rim, full lighting kit, horn, mirror and is issued a VIN #. They never gained much popularity at least not as much as the Whizzer company did after WWII. Ducati also made a version called the Cucciolo:
We've had those here for awhile actually, we call them Mopeds. They are regulated by the Federal Gov't's Department of Transportation. This means approved tire/rim, full lighting kit, horn, mirror and is issued a VIN #. They never gained much popularity at least not as much as the Whizzer company did after WWII. Ducati also made a version called the Cucciolo:
From Bicycling Magazine review of the Mid-Drive Specialized Womens Turbo Vado 3.0
https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a19850892/specialized-womens-turbo-vado-3-0-e-bike-review/
"Acceleration is smooth and immediate—a key strength for e-bikes. Getting a quick jump from a full stop gives a rider more confidence when riding in traffic. When you’re shifting gears or putting more power into the pedals, there’s none of the surging that can afflict some e-bikes with a herky-jerky feel. The lack of lag and the smooth ramp-up in power boosts helped the bike fly up hills with a nearly effortless feel (not all e-bikes do this, by the way—on some, hills still feel like work). The bike handles intuitively, without feeling like a behemoth in fast or sharp turns, and feels stable on steeper descents."
I had a chance to test ride the men's 6.0 ; I concur .
https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/a19850892/specialized-womens-turbo-vado-3-0-e-bike-review/
"Acceleration is smooth and immediate—a key strength for e-bikes. Getting a quick jump from a full stop gives a rider more confidence when riding in traffic. When you’re shifting gears or putting more power into the pedals, there’s none of the surging that can afflict some e-bikes with a herky-jerky feel. The lack of lag and the smooth ramp-up in power boosts helped the bike fly up hills with a nearly effortless feel (not all e-bikes do this, by the way—on some, hills still feel like work). The bike handles intuitively, without feeling like a behemoth in fast or sharp turns, and feels stable on steeper descents."
I had a chance to test ride the men's 6.0 ; I concur .
TForan
Well-Known Member
I agree and that's exactly what I got with my Biktrix Ultra. Feels like a regular bike.
For touring and eMTB factory middrives are only way to go. Tour needs the extra range that only middrives can deliver. With eMTB is power delivery and most importantly for FS low unsprung mass.
Cruising and commuting then there not lot in it, comes down to personnel preference. Middrives can be lot lower maintenance commuters especially with IGH enclosed chain cover or belt drive. Most of hub commuters need to be rear hub motor with derailleur.
Another big plus for middrives is standardized interchangeable batteries. Bosch are leaders here with 3 types, rack, powerpack and powertube. Rest offer combinations of standard and bike specific batteries. If you only own one bike it doesn't matter, but for 2 or more in household being able share batteries is big plus. Wife and I have totally different bikes and motors (both bosch) but we can share batteries on long ride, alternatively I borrow hers for bih MTB rides. If I get trekking bike we'll have spare battery (MTB's) for touring.
Cruising and commuting then there not lot in it, comes down to personnel preference. Middrives can be lot lower maintenance commuters especially with IGH enclosed chain cover or belt drive. Most of hub commuters need to be rear hub motor with derailleur.
Another big plus for middrives is standardized interchangeable batteries. Bosch are leaders here with 3 types, rack, powerpack and powertube. Rest offer combinations of standard and bike specific batteries. If you only own one bike it doesn't matter, but for 2 or more in household being able share batteries is big plus. Wife and I have totally different bikes and motors (both bosch) but we can share batteries on long ride, alternatively I borrow hers for bih MTB rides. If I get trekking bike we'll have spare battery (MTB's) for touring.
Bruce Arnold
Well-Known Member
I believe the herky-jerky feel is due more to cadence sensors than to mid-drive vs. hub drive. My CCS has both cadence and torque sensors, and provides a very smooth, intuitive feel.
JRA
Well-Known Member
"Another big plus for middrives is standardized interchangeable batteries. Bosch are leaders here with 3 types, rack, powerpack and powertube. Rest offer combinations of standard and bike specific batteries."
I realize you and your wife can share batteries, as long as they are Bosch, and both one of the three types. Hopefully going forward Bosch will retain this standard. A Bosch battery will never interchange with another manufacturers battery docking/BMS type though and there are many different systems out and more coming as well as better chemistries. I personally don't see any Industry standards in play.
I interchange my open source type battery between my hub motor bike and mid drive and that to me is a big plus. In fact all my bikes will soon share the same battery dock and plan to add a 13.5ah and a 17.5ah to the mix here soon. With the two bigger batteries I will be able to do the century from PDX to the Coast on my hub motor bike(s). The 10ah battery I already have will exist mainly on my mid drive mtb as I get about 3.5hrs of trail time out of it and that is usually enough. But I can easily put on one of the bigger batteries for more epic adventures.
This is a pic of a nasty little climb (the lower shaded part is over 20%) that I can achieve on either my DD hubs or mid. Admittedly the mid, as it is on a mtb with 15psi in the tires, is more tractable but the 40c tires at 35psi made it up no problem, the front wheel drive aspect of my road bikes works really well in this type of situation.
I realize you and your wife can share batteries, as long as they are Bosch, and both one of the three types. Hopefully going forward Bosch will retain this standard. A Bosch battery will never interchange with another manufacturers battery docking/BMS type though and there are many different systems out and more coming as well as better chemistries. I personally don't see any Industry standards in play.
I interchange my open source type battery between my hub motor bike and mid drive and that to me is a big plus. In fact all my bikes will soon share the same battery dock and plan to add a 13.5ah and a 17.5ah to the mix here soon. With the two bigger batteries I will be able to do the century from PDX to the Coast on my hub motor bike(s). The 10ah battery I already have will exist mainly on my mid drive mtb as I get about 3.5hrs of trail time out of it and that is usually enough. But I can easily put on one of the bigger batteries for more epic adventures.
This is a pic of a nasty little climb (the lower shaded part is over 20%) that I can achieve on either my DD hubs or mid. Admittedly the mid, as it is on a mtb with 15psi in the tires, is more tractable but the 40c tires at 35psi made it up no problem, the front wheel drive aspect of my road bikes works really well in this type of situation.
Chris Hammond
Well-Known Member
Have you tried flipping the stem on the handlebars to angle down instead of up? This will drop your bars a bit. Its my plan. If this is still not low enough, you can get a longer stem, or one with more angle than the stock 7% one and then angle it down as too.
Asher
Well-Known Member
Bosch also charges twice as much per watt hour and offers half the capacity of Juiced. I know which one I'd choose
...Captain Slow, I strongly recommend trying out a flat backswept handlebar like the Postino, or Nitto Nittensha. I've been able to get much more aero with it, while the backsweep provides wrist support. After getting mine, I'm going to remove the spacers and possibly flip the stem.
So far, I think the main flaw of the CCS is setting it up like a hybrid when it's advertised as a commuter, plus the RCS is now available for offroading. The stock handlebars and suspension don't really make sense when (I assume) it's almost exclusively used on roads, much like hybrids are.
I'm in the midst of planning my first DIY build, and this was my conclusion as well. All of the DIY mid-drives I found had pretty significant shortcomings, not least of which was the lack of torque sensing which I consider essential.
For me though, it has to be DIY because that means I can maintain it myself, just a matter of having the right tools and learning a bit, plus I found that you can improve the efficiency of a direct drive hub system quite a lot with the right setup (FOC controller, torque sensing, slower Kv motors, regen, smaller wheels, etc - it adds up). Plus the only mountainous riding I'll be doing isn't part of my commute, and the paved roads are doable (5-15% mostly).
I need to maintain it myself because I don't own a car, and somehow finding a way to cart a bike 50+ miles to the nearest qualified shop to fix a propietary system is out of the question (I live in the States). Already learned that one the hard way the first time I tried to get into e-bikes several years back.
Granted I'm still waiting on parts to do my first build so take this with a grain of salt, but from my experience with riding and maintaining regular bikes my whole life (I don't own a car), more moving parts always means more maintenance.
Mid-drives have the most moving pieces and single points of failure of any ebike motor setup, and it makes the drive-chain a single point of failure. Using a high-end system like Bosch will obviously mitigate that a lot, but the same is true for high-end hub bikes like the Stromer. IGHs can be used with front hub setups as well.
As a side note, I'd rather have a derailleur than IGH, despite the derailleur obviously needing more maintenance: I can fix or replace a derailleur easily myself, I can't do that with an IGH.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
Because some of the bikes are a clear violation of Federal as well as states laws if ridden as fully capable. Luna expects YOU to be the mechanic.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
Bafang, better than the clones, but nowhere near MAC or BMC.
WilliamT
Active Member
Just recently had a flat on my front wheel which is on a geared hub. Just from seeing what can happen with front forks, the wheel had 2 grin torque arms one on each side. This is a 350 watt motor attached to a heavy duty steel fork w/o suspension.
First thing that came to mind was, "what a pain to disassemble". Would have to remove the torque arms, and then use a wrench to remove the fixed bolts, disconnect the power cable, and cut the zip ties. All before I actually start changing the flat. Then I'll have to line up all the c-washers, tighten everything up, attached the torque arms again.
I ended up just pulling the tire off with the wheel attached and patching it that way. That lasted about 1/2 mile before it leaked again and I had to put more glue on it. It would have been so much easier to just replace the tube.
This was one time, I wished I had a mid-drive unit.
It would have made changing the flats so much easier. That night I removed the v3 torque arms and replaced them with a v2 torque arm. Now I can disconnect the torque arms much easier. I also replaced the zip ties with velcro strips so I can pull them off and secure the power cable after a repair.
First thing that came to mind was, "what a pain to disassemble". Would have to remove the torque arms, and then use a wrench to remove the fixed bolts, disconnect the power cable, and cut the zip ties. All before I actually start changing the flat. Then I'll have to line up all the c-washers, tighten everything up, attached the torque arms again.
I ended up just pulling the tire off with the wheel attached and patching it that way. That lasted about 1/2 mile before it leaked again and I had to put more glue on it. It would have been so much easier to just replace the tube.
This was one time, I wished I had a mid-drive unit.
It would have made changing the flats so much easier. That night I removed the v3 torque arms and replaced them with a v2 torque arm. Now I can disconnect the torque arms much easier. I also replaced the zip ties with velcro strips so I can pull them off and secure the power cable after a repair.
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tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
Until you blow a chain on a mid drive and have to walk home...
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