Mechanical brakes vs Hydraulic brakes

[stw]

...but I have used a ton of cable actuated brakes and know how much work they are. ...

Have you used a cable actuated hydraulic piston brake?

 

[fooferdoggie]

Have you used a cable actuated hydraulic piston brake?

nope I gave up mechanical brakes long ago. but I have talked to enough mechanics about them. they were invented for roadies with brifers to be able to use their brifter but to get some benefits of a hydrolic brake. then cheap ones came on the market to replace cheap cable brakes. Plus without those lines to help absorb heat from braking you have a bigger chance of boiling the fluid.

 

[indianajo]

Grey metal is the stuff they make cheap cables, cheap spokes, other things that stretch & fracture. Not real steel. Probably was the hull of the Crimson Polaris that broke in two & sank off Japan today. Factory manager & QA manager of Gary In steel works went to jail in WWII for selling that to the government to build the ore boat that fractured & sank in a Great lake.

 

[Art Deco]

Grey metal is the stuff they make cheap cables, cheap spokes, other things that stretch & fracture. Not real steel. Probably was the hull of the Crimson Polaris that broke in two & sank off Japan today. Factory manager & QA manager of Gary In steel works went to jail in WWII for selling that to the government to build the ore boat that fractured & sank in lake MI.

Recycled or pot metal. The dregs.

 

[TNC]

To me the big difference between hydraulic and mechanical brakes isn't about absolute 'lock them up' stopping power. It is about comfort during normal stops. Arthritic hands are pretty common on this forum and among people of a certain age.

This is really a big chunk of the benefit of hydro brakes. High speed on pavement hills and big descents on MTB's really benefit from powerful hydro brakes. However, as you say, there are notable advantages to hydros even on flat pavement. I mountain bike a lot in my home area, and while there is a good amount of technical terrain, there are not a whole lot of long extended descents like I encounter out west. The benefit?...powerful braking with an easy pull on the levers. Think of it as power brakes. I'll occasionally ride for 2-3 hours at a time, and the hands and fingers appreciate not having to increase grip force. It's a real thing.

Then there's this. These bikes have motor assist. You can crank up some real speed on and off road. When the need to stop arrives, it's nice not to have to vise grip the levers. I recently went to 4-piston brakes for my Santa Cruz Nomad/BBSHD. The treatment of my fingers and hands have loved it. As long as the given brake set has modulation, you're not going to be locking up needlessly.

This is one of the conundrums of these ebike sites. We're all over the board on the application of these brakes in this discussion, and it applies to discussions on many different components. Some here will be fine with any decent brake, rim or disc...some won't. Application is everything. I just know that more and more of the factory emtb's from Trek and Spec have 4-piston hydros for a reason. On my MTB/BBSHD I'd never go back to 2-piston hydros, much less mechanicals of any kind. But...application is everything and on this widely varying forum of all kinds of ebikes, there is no one-size-fits-all.

 

[PDoz]

This is one of the conundrums of these ebike sites. We're all over the board on the application of these brakes in this discussion, and it applies to discussions on many different components.

Best post so far

I'm super fussy with my brakes, I love being able to use one finger to hold my tyres right on the edge of physics whilst the rest of my brain calculates plan B. it's been over a decade since I gave up on having cable drag . For me, no argument

STW - have you used a decent set of hydraulic only brakes? Minimum 200 mm disc, 4 pot either shimano 520 or higher / sram code or higher / hope 4 pot etc. Properly bled, and bedded in properly. Preferably down a trail with over 1000 m descent on varying surfaces , with a bike capable of doing those brakes justice?

I'll confess to never riding ice with spiked tyres so not being able to comment on the only situation where cable beats hydraulic.

 

[Comfortably Numb]

don't count on not having to maintain them the fluid gets contaminated over time it absorbs moisture there is a reason they are not common. you miss out on all of the modulation you get with a full setup plus I doubt they ahve the longevity either.

Moisture from where? System sealed. Maybe fluid breakdown from temperature variation and age which is perfectly normal with all hydraulic fluids, in all applications. So periodic fluid change, yes, but due to contamination?

CN

 

[PDoz]

Moisture from where? System sealed. Maybe fluid breakdown from temperature variation and age which is perfectly normal with all hydraulic fluids, in all applications. So periodic fluid change, yes, but due to contamination?

CN

Shimano uses mineral oil so water is less of a concern. Within a year or hard use it's worth replacing - admittedly these are brakes that have been used on gravity focused mtb by a crazy teenage girl.....my shimano brakes only get flushed every 2 years. My youngest daughters 2009 giant trance (shimano) managed a decade on the orginal fluid- it looked mucky but was still working fine. I suspect that's an indication that the average user doesn't really need to worry about shimano hydraulics?

Sram use DOT - and despite being "sealed" it definitely gets murky within a few months. I had presumed this was water but could be fine particles/ wear/ temp changes- either way, I flush mine at least every 12 months and can feel the placebo effect immediately.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Moisture from where? System sealed. Maybe fluid breakdown from temperature variation and age which is perfectly normal with all hydraulic fluids, in all applications. So periodic fluid change, yes, but due to contamination?

CN

it happens you see the fluid gets darker. it also absorbs moisture though that takes a long time.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Best post so far

I'm super fussy with my brakes, I love being able to use one finger to hold my tyres right on the edge of physics whilst the rest of my brain calculates plan B. it's been over a decade since I gave up on having cable drag . For me, no argument

STW - have you used a decent set of hydraulic only brakes? Minimum 200 mm disc, 4 pot either shimano 520 or higher / sram code or higher / hope 4 pot etc. Properly bled, and bedded in properly. Preferably down a trail with over 1000 m descent on varying surfaces , with a bike capable of doing those brakes justice?

I'll confess to never riding ice with spiked tyres so not being able to comment on the only situation where cable beats hydraulic.

we had deorer 2 piston on our tandem and and it was not enough. my wife has a rim brake and we would need it when the discs were not enough. so an upgrade to 4 piston doer and man the difference was huge. got me spoiled and I went to 4 potion on my commuter for the 1 finger feel over the magura 2 piston. they had plenty in stopping power but no way one finger works on them.

 

[6zfshdb]

I have good quality cable / disc brakes on my conventional Trek MTB and hydraulic / disc on my e-bike. Aside from a slightly more "positive" feel with the hydraulics, I honestly don't see that much difference. I mostly ride gravel trails of varying surface quality. If I rode under more severe conditions, it might be a different story however.

My biggest issue with hydraulic brakes is the difficulty in changing the oil tube length when swapping handlebars or adding a stem riser.

 

[alphacarina]

For eBikes, hydraulic vs mechanical? One system works 99% of the time and is very inexpensive to repair, the other works 95% of the time and is very expensive to repair. I'm all for saving a buck wherever possible, so until my mechanical brakes let me down, I have no plan to 'upgrade' to a more expensive but less reliable stopping system

Don

 

[ruffruff]

don't count on not having to maintain them the fluid gets contaminated over time it absorbs moisture there is a reason they are not common. you miss out on all of the modulation you get with a full setup plus I doubt they ahve the longevity either.

Hydraulic brakes not common?

 

[fooferdoggie]

Hydraulic brakes not common?

no the cable powered ones those are oddballs.

 

[Asher]

These graphs really say it all. Almost no one specs mechanical disc brakes for any reason besides wanting disc brakes that are $50-100 cheaper.

Also, lots of online ebike brands are too cheap to use thru axles, and disc brakes rub very easily on quick release axles. On my current thru axle hydraulic disc road bike, analog, brake rub only occurs after hard braking, and quickly self corrects itself away.

If you see a bike with mechanical disc brakes or QRs with disc brakes, you have to wonder what other corners did they cut.

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[indianajo]

These graphs really say it all. Almost no one specs mechanical disc brakes for any reason besides wanting disc brakes that are $50-100 cheaper.

I like them because I don't have to maintain them. Tighten pad every 1000 miles. Once high end slick stainless cables are in there, that is the end.
I also like them because they work in the rain, by contrast with rim brakes which are worthless after a puddle.

 

[PedalUma]

I like all of them! They are like children. Each one is different. I make electric bikes with coaster brakes for people with hand issues. Some people want a simple system that does not need to bleed, yet works in the rain and cannot get dirty. They get mechanical internal roller brakes. Some people want to win the downhill race on race day. They get hydraulic discs. Mechanical rim brakes come in several flavors and if properly set up they are light weight have good stopping power because their rotor can be 700c and not 160mm. And they have a low life cycle cost and are simple to adjust and maintain. Bottom line it depends on the bike and on the rider. Bike shops like Hydro-discs best because they can make much more servicing them. They can also l charge $40 for $6 pads if there is a logo.

 

[Asher]

I like all of them! They are like children. Each one is different. I make electric bikes with coaster brakes for people with hand issues. Some people want a simple system that does not need to bleed, yet works in the rain and cannot get dirty. They get mechanical internal roller brakes. Some people want the win the downhill race on race day. They get hydraulic discs. Mechanical rim brakes come in several flavors and if properly set up they are light weight have good stopping power because their rotor can be 700c and not 160mm. And they have a low life cycle cost and are simple to adjust and maintain. Bottom line it depends on the bike and on the rider. Bike shops like Hydro-discs best because they can make much more servicing them. They can also l charge $40 for $6 pads it there is a logo.

Disc brakes means your wheels last a lifetime. Many wheel makers now offer lifetime warranties. Bike shops have little power to influence decisions compared to brands and customers.

In Deep: No Questions Asked | BIKE Magazine

Carbon rims are better than ever, and their "break it and get a free one" warranties leave nothing to be desired. But is that the way it should be?

www.bikemag.com

 

[Gionnirocket]

nope I gave up mechanical brakes long ago. but I have talked to enough mechanics about them. they were invented for roadies with brifers to be able to use their brifter but to get some benefits of a hydrolic brake. then cheap ones came on the market to replace cheap cable brakes. Plus without those lines to help absorb heat from braking you have a bigger chance of boiling the fluid.

Those same mechanics who charge you $60 for break pads no doubt.

 

[PedalUma]

Disc brakes means your wheels last a lifetime. Many wheel makers now offer lifetime warranties. Bike shops have little power to influence decisions compared to brands and customers.

In Deep: No Questions Asked | BIKE Magazine

Carbon rims are better than ever, and their "break it and get a free one" warranties leave nothing to be desired. But is that the way it should be?

www.bikemag.com

Reserved Wheels?