champignon
New Member
It looks like this pre-order may have sold out; all you can do now is give them your email address "to be notified" when the item becomes available again.
Luna's new bike
- Thread starter TForan
- Start date
Yonkk
New Member
A high-performance sports car can go from 0 to 100 mph in 7.2 s. It does not mean you are going to have your foot on the floor all the time. I ordered a X-1 with the 2000 watt option. On the trail It will be dialed back to maybe 500 watts. I don't see the need for all that power on the trails, but if i use it around town. 2000 watts may come in handy.
Please come back and review this bike after you’ve put some hard miles on it. I am very interested in the 750w version of this bike and I’m curious as to how the frame and drivetrain will hold up after someone seriously whales on it.
Obviously, I can’t speak for Luna. However, they have 3D printers, cnc routers, and a sonic spot welder that they use in producing their latest batteries. There is no reason that they couldn’t use this equipment to manufacture a replacement pack for this bike if they see fit.
I will absolutely discuss this with them if I buy the bike next year.
Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
- City
- Halifax
Please do check with them. I am curious to know why their transitioned from "Fusion" batteries to wolf pack.
Repairing a fully potted battery takes a fair amount of work and there is a reason why they are not making those fusion batteries anymore.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
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- Minnesnowta
Why not use their forum?
You'll get more answer there.
www.electricbike.com/forum
Or their Facebook page...
You'll get more answer there.
www.electricbike.com/forum
Or their Facebook page...
You aren’t supposed to be able to service those packs. Luna says that their construction process means that bad cells are isolated and the rest of the pack continues functioning. They claim the potting is water proof and has thermal characteristics that helps to control cell heat.
The fusion batteries are the ones they make in house to fit the odd shaped triangles in the KHS bikes that they sell. They use a 3D printer to make a custom cell spacers/trays, sonic weld the cells and then pot everything. They use a cnc machine to cut aluminum covers for the battery packs.
It is a pretty good sales pitch. I like the part about an American company ensuring that name brand cells are used and that the production has good quality controls. I also like the idea of a tough as nails pack on a bike that I will absolutely wreck.
I do wonder whether cells need to off-gas or have some flex for the casing that the potting might interfere with (I’m trying to read up on this kind of thing). I also need to be sure that the BMS is high quality if the pack isn’t serviceable. Especially, since Luna warranties are generally a la carte.
The new bike does have a warranty. However, it doesn’t use “their” battery.
Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
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- Canada
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- Halifax
In the business world or in any sphere of life. It is best to focus on people's actions rather than words. People say a lot of things but actions shows much more than that.
I have seen the videos of Eric submerging a Wolf pack and I thought that was crazy way of displaying the quality of those packs.
If they are confident about tough as nails build quality and high-quality BMS, let them state in writing that their warranty is 3 years instead of 3 months. Once you put in writing, it has different power and shows confidence/pride in their product. They have a forum and huge knowledge base to help their customers and if they can offer solid support, they will become a company that most DIY'er can only aspire for.
Yamaha is known for high-quality reliable products and their motors and batteries are warrantied for 3 years.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
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- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
yes, electricbike.com Is Luna's site entirely.
That is a universally true statement.
However, the fact that Luna offers very low prices for an item without a warranty doesn't necessarily mean that they have a poor product. You can choose to buy the item at a very low price without a warranty and you can choose to get a warranty for the battery for an upcharge. Some consumers will appreciate the choice and are prepared to live with the consequences of their decision. Some won't.
I haven't decided on whether I will go the DIY route or buy a premium finished good. However, I do understand that the warranty on something that I put together from component parts is going to be vastly different than something that I buy from a local bike store...especially, when there are electrical components involved.
tomjasz
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- USA
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- Minnesnowta
EM3ev, Empowered cycles, Bafang USA and more offer better warranties and if you take orders from the various resellers online and take them through to shipping charges the bottom line is not very different. AND you get a warranty.
smorgasbord
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Since this is the Dengfu frame, which is built for the Bafang motor and I think all non-Luna builds use this Bafang manufactured battery (see here: https://www.bafang-e.com/oem-area/components/component/battery/bt-f04600/ ). Anyone have any speculation about the interchangeability of these?
smorgasbord
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Yeah, that's the downside of many integrated batteries - lower capacities. The M1 Spitzing Evolution, can fit a huge 1kWh battery inside its frame, but it doesn't look like anything "normal." The Riese and Muller Delite has two 500wh batteries attached in two different places - lots of capacity, but it looks Rube Goldbergish. Luna also makes the Apollo and Apex, both of which have big externally mounted batteries. It's good they give choices.
JRA
Well-Known Member
To be fair because the Bafang is a 48v system as opposed to most all the other manufacturers being 36v the wh capacity is 648. For an mtb this is actually pretty sufficient to get your butt aching on the rough terrain this type of bike is meant for. My bike is only 500wh and I can get just about all the ride time, two to three hours dependent on terrain, I need out of it but the extra 150wh would be nice and not come at too much of a weight gain which is also a factor for handling on an mtb.
I have been chasing the M600 for over a year as a system that intrigues me because of it's ability to have a throttle which to me puts it high on my list. There are just certain times when it is very useful as I have noted from using my TSDZ2 system for serious off road excursions. The advertised 120nm torque also is a feature that could be useful and on par with what the TQ system advertises.
The TQ bikes like the M1 and upcoming Flyon that weigh over 60lbs compared to the 45lbs. I am used to is a turn off as I believe that the actual power to weight ratio between those bikes and an M600 equipped bike would be very similar and I would much rather heave 45 lbs. over a downed log/fence than 60. Granted alot of the weight of the M1 is due to the massive battery but for me at least having that many wh's on board all the time when not necessarily needed for shorter daily rides makes that extra weight a liability.
Bafang however as usual doesn't seem to be able to provide the support necessary for the M600 up to now. Perhaps Luna's contact with them will alleviate this? We'll see. I do know that as soon as an M600 equipped bike comes available that I can afford and like the geometry of, even if it's a hardtail, will be my next purchase as for mtb use an integrated motor would be nice over the udder type TSDZ2 that hangs down below the chainring and subject to getting whacked constantly.
Also Bafang has advertised a lower wh battery as well as a higher wh battery upcoming that fit into the same mounting. Be that as it may I would have all three in stock to tailor the bike for my expected ride time or gang up for the long days. I am pretty sure that Luna will follow that as it happens or at least be smart to.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
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- Minnesnowta
Several of us selling parts get many requests for parts when they are unable to get them elsewhere. The parts stream is awful from Bafang. 13.5Ah batteries are the absolute slowest-selling. Not what the market seems to want. Bafang engineers apparently aren't 52V fans, given they changed the firmware this year without telling anyone. Controllers had to be flashed with new firmware to allow 52V without a 07 overvolt error. Love their motors, hate the customer service.
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