Luna's new bike

[JRA]

Does anyone find a source for M600 parts?

At this time there are only a few bikes available here in the US, the FLX trail, Roadster and the impending X-1 that I know of, that even spec using the M600 and I don't see Bafang doing alot to support it's OEM sales so parts are probably going to be the same as they supply for their add-on systems, little to none. At least they addressed the original issues regarding changing the nylon gear to metal and perhaps the non-potted controller that Luna griped about in their video first discussing it that has been deleted. There are alot of Ultra equipped bikes out and as that system has no interest to me due to excess weight and over power for my needs who knows?

Not sure where the high speed knock is coming from as the M600 series is not a contender for that sector that I can see as the Ultra is more capable of. It does look like a contender for eMTB use on par weight wise with the EU type mid motors though for legal speed grunting around on the trails and that is what I am a looking for as well as the throttle mentioned which you will never see on the EU to US spec bikes even though they are legal to use here. Hopefully by the time I get one in the stable there will be parts available but not going to hold my breath nor get one until I see some movement along those lines.

I just switched to a 48v/18a TSDZ2 kit and I don't even notice the difference between that and my older 52v/15a one. Got a nice HL case 48v/18ah 2170 battery to use for the same price than I spent for my last 52v HL case 10ah 18650 one too. Total cost to re-fit was under $800 so I should be good for the rest of the year and see what comes up M600 wise next year.

 

[TomD]

I'm not sure what you mean by the deleted video. It's still on luna's youtube channel:

 

[JRA]

I'm not sure what you mean by the deleted video. It's still on luna's youtube channel:

oh, last time I looked for it I couldn't find it.

 

[Ken M]

I wonder how much of the gear failures are due to running extreme power levels to the Bafang motors by Luna. That said I do agree with their implication that the gears should have very good design margin to not fail if pushed a bit. I would expect a good ebike mid-drive motor to last at least 25,000km before needing major service but my guess is the motor manufacturers are targeting a much lower number - all to ofter products these days are being designed with the idea they are throw-aways in a short period of time.

 

[tomjasz]

I realize Luna can be over the top with the speed stuff

But my reasoning for looking at the ultra and M 600 bikes is to have a mid drive torque set up with the throttle, not for speed

I for one will never be going fast on my bike

No judgements here.

 

[tomjasz]

I wonder how much of the gear failures are due to running extreme power levels to the Bafang motors by Luna.

That’s a reasonable supposition and I’d guess likely the case. The nylon gear in BBS02 and BBSHD have a bum rap all started by single blog. (Like the gear grease choice) For a time the blog was a lone BBSxx centric source. Only those pushing the limits, and regularly over stressing the motors managed melted gears. the plastic BBS gear is the worst selling “consumable”. I still have a replacement first version BBS01 gear. Never used, but now completely unavailable from any source.

 

[Feliz]

That’s a reasonable supposition and I’d guess likely the case. The nylon gear in BBS02 and BBSHD have a bum rap all started by single blog. (Like the gear grease choice) For a time the blog was a lone BBSxx centric source. Only those pushing the limits, and regularly over stressing the motors managed melted gears. the plastic BBS gear is the worst selling “consumable”. I still have a replacement first version BBS01 gear. Never used, but now completely unavailable from any source.

I think you have it right Tom. way over hyped. I'm running the original plastic gears while my metal backup gears are sitting on the shelf. I know of no one who melted any gears but I've seen a few examples on the internet of guys running 2500 watts and then go hill climbing in there BBSxx that have.

 

[TomD]

Got my X1. It will be going back. Luna marketed the X1 as a "silent lightweight bike at less than 50 pounds". With all due respect to Luna, they over promised and under delivered on these 2 key points. My X1 (medium frame) tips the scales at 56 pounds. I could live with that if the motor wasn't so obnoxiously loud.

Edit: I now believe my motor to be abnormal based on feedback from another M600 owner. Will withhold final opinion on noise until I am able to verify with a replacement motor.

Edit 2: I ended up sending the bike back. Luna declined to send a replacement motor claiming all 50 of the M600 motors they tested sounded similar to mine. I'm almost $400 lighter in the pocket but couldn't live with the noise.

 

[tomjasz]

Luna, they over promised and under delivered

Take it to Luna and once you have a solution, please share it!

 

[TomD]

Here's a video comparing motor noise.

I was curious to compare noise to a name brand bike so went out today and test rode a 2020 turbo levo comp. Noise was comparable to my BBS01 (maybe even a little quieter).

 

[tomjasz]

Seriously? That level is worth a $400 return fee? Kinda curious now to read if Kepler has a steel gear. Having heard steel gears in hub drives, that X1 is nearer silent. Everything on their site is over blown though. Like parts support. Non for all the hub motors, none for A versions of BBSxx series...no rotors for BBSHD...and on...and on...
Regardless of their sales blather, it really doesn’t strike me as loud enough to be an issue. Slap a plastic gear in there and ride it within Bafang design parameters.

 

[tomjasz]

I’d agree with the motor version literal meaning.

 

[TomD]

@Thomas Jaszewski did you order the X1? I would agree with your earlier assessment that nylon gears may have gotten a bum rap. Early adopters of the M600 got the nylon gears and the motor was silent. I wasn't aware of any failures. Luna did some stress tests and found they could burn up the gears and convinced Bafang the M600 needed steel gears. Maybe Luna was right. More recent reviews of bikes with the M600 mention the motor being noisy. For example this review. It was concerning to read while waiting for my X1.

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I could justify keeping the bike, but I'd rather invest the $3.5K toward a bike that is going to make me happier. YMMV.

 

[tomjasz]

I take everything that group feeds the market with a very wary eye.