Rockshox Monarch RL... Doesn't fully extend?

[Gionnirocket]

Holly s*it! You gotz a FUGAZI!

OK.... there was oil inside the air can and it was a bit darkened from wear. And though I tried to be careful and angle it on disassembly, most of it spilled on the floor. I'd say total about 2ml...Or maybe some of it was diluted grease.
Everything inside looked new so I wiped everything clean, Slickoleum'd all the rings and added the oil that came with the 50hr service kit split between the top and bottom just like in the video. The hardest part is pushing the air can back in place and getting the threads started as there's quite a bit of push back.
Yes you could add oil through the Schrader valve as it's ported directly into the air can... But honestly I don't see a reason to unless you're pissing oil at the seals and don't have time to repair and want to buy some time.
Eyelet bushing went back in place without the tool.
The shock back on the bike and testing in place it felt good and just like my spare shock which by the way is new.
Didn't have much time nor enough charge on the battery for a long ride but I put it through its paces as I aimed for every rut, ripple and road divot on the MUPS and it performed as new if not better on the initial 12mi ride.
SLICKOLEUM RULES!
Maybe I fixed it... Maybe it's temporary... Or maybe I just wasted 2 hours
Anywho, not too concerned... it was an experience and it's working for now. If the issue returns or something else develops, I'll update.



Edit: To further confuse the oil question... The 2016 Monarch repair manual states:
Inject 0.5 mL of Maxima Maxum4 Extra 15w50 or Maxima
PLUSH Dynamic Suspension Lube Light into the air can.

Now the PLUSH description:
Maxima Plush Dynamic Suspension lube is an advanced specialty fluid formulated for high performance suspension systems. Formulated and tested with OEM engineers and designed for use in lower fork legs and multiple other non-damper components. Surface active technology reduces static and dynamic friction and considerably lowers the force needed for easy breakaway, providing smooth action throughout the entire range of travel.

Dynamic Light is a direct replacement for 0w30 in all forks specifying the use of Rockshox 0w30
High performance lube for all lower fork legs and other non damper suspension components, including all Mountain, XC , Gravel, Down hill, Enduro and Freeride (Also approved for use in some dropper post seat designs)
Dynamic lube activates on loaded bushings and seals
Reduces static (stiction) and dynamic (running) friction
Proprietary additive system minimizes wear and keeps the system clean
Long life fluid extends time between rebuilds

Your Viscosity May Vary. . .

 

[PCeBiker]

Holly s*it! You gotz a FUGAZI!

OK.... there was oil inside the air can and it was a bit darkened from wear. And though I tried to be careful and angle it on disassembly, most of it spilled on the floor. I'd say total about 2ml...Or maybe some of it was diluted grease.

Well, that's all you really needed to know.
I would figure if it was going to leak at all, it would have all leaked out by now?

Everything inside looked new so I wiped everything clean, Slickoleum'd all the rings and added the oil that came with the 50hr service kit split between the top and bottom just like in the video.

Did you happen to notice if there was oil on the top and bottom when it came apart ?

The hardest part is pushing the air can back in place and getting the threads started as there's quite a bit of push back.

Yes you could add oil through the Schrader valve as it's ported directly into the air can... But honestly I don't see a reason to unless you're pissing oil at the seals and don't have time to repair and want to buy some time.

Well, for me, I'd want to know if there's anything in there to begin with before I'd add any, so I guess I'll be taking mine apart.

Eyelet bushing went back in place without the tool.
The shock back on the bike and testing in place it felt good and just like my spare shock which by the way is new.
Didn't have much time nor enough charge on the battery for a long ride but I put it through its paces as I aimed for every rut, ripple and road divot on the MUPS and it performed as new if not better on the initial 12mi ride.
SLICKOLEUM RULES!

My $50 tub of Slickoleum is on the way !!

Maybe I fixed it... Maybe it's temporary... Or maybe I just wasted 2 hours
Anywho, not too concerned... it was an experience and it's working for now. If the issue returns or something else develops, I'll update.

You're good.

The one guy said they can start doing what yours was doing within a week from new.
The simple fix was a lube job.

Edit: To further confuse the oil question... The 2016 Monarch repair manual states:
Inject 0.5 mL of Maxima Maxum4 Extra 15w50 or Maxima
PLUSH Dynamic Suspension Lube Light into the air can.

Now the PLUSH description:
Maxima Plush Dynamic Suspension lube is an advanced specialty fluid formulated for high performance suspension systems. Formulated and tested with OEM engineers and designed for use in lower fork legs and multiple other non-damper components. Surface active technology reduces static and dynamic friction and considerably lowers the force needed for easy breakaway, providing smooth action throughout the entire range of travel.

Dynamic Light is a direct replacement for 0w30 in all forks specifying the use of Rockshox 0w30
High performance lube for all lower fork legs and other non damper suspension components, including all Mountain, XC , Gravel, Down hill, Enduro and Freeride (Also approved for use in some dropper post seat designs)
Dynamic lube activates on loaded bushings and seals
Reduces static (stiction) and dynamic (running) friction
Proprietary additive system minimizes wear and keeps the system clean
Long life fluid extends time between rebuilds

Well, I'm after longer life more than extreme performance (just like my battery) so I want to use what's best for that.

I'm willing to spend the money on the magical Proprietary stuff if it isn't ridiculously expensive or over-hyped BS.

I didn't mind spending the money on the Slickoleum because I'm sure it will be my go-to light grease for just about everything.
I can't see why it would be Wrong to use it?
Although you and your friend with the same ebike, don't like Anti-Seize but I'm using it anyway.

Your Viscosity May Vary. . .

What do you think I should get for fork oil?
I don't want to pay for proprietary ingredients that aren't necessary for how I ride unless it's worth it.

I didn't however remove the Anti-Seize from my nuts and bolts and replace it with regular grease though.

 

[PCeBiker]

I just noticed this about your shock,..

Rockshox Monarch RL

Yours is an RL and mine is just an R.

Does yours have a lockout?
Maybe that's what the L means??

Maybe I can convert my shock into an RL with a valve replacement?

Maybe I can add an separate air can too??,.. For whatever reason I would want to do that?

Like super charging my air shock so I can do backflips with my 48v compressor and an air can.

I could reroute the lock out lever to work as a launch button to dump 300 PSI from the extra air can into the shock.

I've already got a remote lockout switch for my forks that I didn't bother to install because I have no need to lock them out.

I could hook up the handlebar mounted lever to dump air into the forks to launch the front end.

I could install another lever for the rear shock to launch the rear end.

I'm sure that with some practice, I could do back-flips, forward-flips, or a perfect pronk with no rotation at all.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Compared to the rest of the stuff out there by shock manufacturers... SLICKOLEUM is cheap. It's my go to for assembly lube too.
Then... Like I said I routinely lube my stanchion/sweep o_ring. Remember this? I think it helps a lot with road vibration and maybe how I got 5700mi (roughly 380 hours) without an issue and even when an issue developed, there was little to no wear. Obviously an ASSumption at this juncture... but I'm drunk on Kool-aid
Then I wonder if I hadn't removed all the air to check rack clearance... if I would have had any issue at all

Oil definitely on the top as it spilled instantly. I'm assuming some on the bottom too. It takes some force to pull it apart so it's hard to stop once it breaks free. Next time around I could probably be more careful.

The simple fix lube job was for the Debonair. I think that outer cover if run dry of grease underneath is the problem there. Solo air seems simpler and less problematic... Less to go wrong, but not as effective so trade for what you will.

As for the oil... It's clearer now that oil can be used for dampening and/or lubrication. In a fork they call for both types so there probably is some difference. That said do you need $100k test equipment to see the difference. Obviously the necessity for a 50 Hr service is total bullshit. At least for those of us not competing.
As for what to use in your fork?
Throw a dart!

Amazon.com : Suspension oil

Yes my shock has a lock out... The blue lever. Red dial is rebound adjustment.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Great job! We need more threads like this instead of the usual "I got a problem and took it to the bike shop for them to figure it out!"

 

[PCeBiker]

Throw a dart!

Amazon.com : Suspension oil

I didn't have much luck with Amazon Canada. It shows some regular 15 wt hydraulic fluid, and the Chinese fork lube that I think I posted a picture of in the thread you linked to.


But look what I found at Canadian Tire,..

Compared to the rest of the stuff out there by shock manufacturers... SLICKOLEUM is cheap.

All silicone or synthetic oils and greases are expensive.

This is regular plumbing grease at Canadian Tire,..

 

[PCeBiker]

Did you remove your bushings to install them in the replacement shock?
Could I just leave mine installed and still get my shock apart to grease the air can?

@PCeBiker ...yeah the bottom bushing needs to be removed from the eyelet to allow clearance for the main air can removal.

I have that same shock on my H-Bike Full FatSix (110mm travel....not sure what your travel is).

I removed my battery and stuck my phone all up in there and took a picture,...

I'm thinking that I don't have to press the bushing out?
Looks like I've got clearance?

And,.. I'm pretty sure my shock has 190 mm of travel with a 51 mm bore?

And,.. it looks like I can grease the bushing?
I'm a gunna be puttin sum Slickoleum in a squeeze bottle,..


And,..
I'm just gunna do the whole service right on the bike!!

I'll let the air out, grab the can and loosen it while using the bike itself to hold the shock.
Remove the bottom shock bolt, tilt the shock up and simply unscrew the can and pull it off.

Grease er' up good with Slickoleum, a couple squirts of Lucas Oil and reinstall the can.

The can should thread on a bit easier using the whole bike as support while trying to stuff and twist the can without cross-threading it?
I could probably reinstall the bottom shock bolt before trying to thread the can on too?
That should help to hold everything steady?



So I'm thinkin a complete shock inspection and lube job in ten minutes tops !!!
(Plus or minus half a day or so. )

 

[PCeBiker]

Thanks @Gionnirocket for doing all the research, legwork, and shopping.

Now instead of spending $80 on a rebuild kit, I'm getting $80 worth of Slickoleum and Lucas Fork Oil.


I'm just curious,..
Is your replacement shock the exact same shock?
If it's a different one, why did you choose something different?

 

[Gionnirocket]

Great job! We need more threads like this instead of the usual "I got a problem and took it to the bike shop for them to figure it out!"

We're old school in our thinking. Let's get this done.

I'm thinking that I don't have to press the bushing out?
Looks like I've got clearance?

For me it was real close but no. My bushing (mounting hardware portion ) looks a little longer. When I say bushing it's not the first eyelet one (shown in video) it's the next inner piece that sets the legnth of the mount and just under the plastic spacer/covers.
.

And,.. I'm pretty sure my shock has 190 mm of travel with a 51 mm bore?

You have that a bit backwards. It's 190mm eyelet to eyelet with 51mm of travel.
Mine is 200x51...Just sayiń

And,.. it looks like I can grease the bushing?
I'm a gunna be puttin sum Slickoleum in a squeeze bottle,..

I don't see why not. If mine hadn't slid in by hand on assembly I would have greased it. Mine looked like there was a factory coating of red lock tight on the eyelet part of the pressed in bushing. You can see it in the video. This is the first larger diameter part of the bushing.

And,..
I'm just gunna do the whole service right on the bike!

I'll let the air out, grab the can and loosen it while using the bike itself to hold the shock.
Remove the bottom shock bolt, tilt the shock up and simply unscrew the can and pull it off.

Grease er' up good with Slickoleum, a couple squirts of Lucas Oil and reinstall the can.

The can should thread on a bit easier using the whole bike as support while trying to stuff and twist the can without cross-threading it?
I could probably reinstall the bottom shock bolt before trying to thread the can on too?
That should help to hold everything steady?

No.
Absolutely No
... and No f'n way.
Believe me you don't want to attempt it on the bike for many reasons. First you want to keep everything real clean. Taking it apart and pushing it back together takes a bit of force and you don't want anything in the way. You'll probably get oil and grease everywhere. You'll want to do an inspection from all sides. I didn't remove any O_rings as they easily damage.. I wiped them down in place using a lint free cloth.

So I'm thinkin a complete shock inspection and lube job in ten minutes tops !!!
(Plus or minus half a day or so. )

If I had to do it again.. It would probably take an hour without rushing.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Thanks @Gionnirocket for doing all the research, legwork, and shopping.

Now instead of spending $80 on a rebuild kit, I'm getting $80 worth of Slickoleum and Lucas Fork Oil.


I'm just curious,..
Is your replacement shock the exact same shock?
If it's a different one, why did you choose something different?

 

[PCeBiker]

For me it was real close but no. My bushing (mounting hardware portion ) looks a little longer. When I say bushing it's not the first eyelet one (shown in video) it's the next inner piece that sets the legnth of the mount and just under the plastic spacer/covers.
View attachment 191447. View attachment 191448

OK, well I'm just going to have to see what's hiding under the plastic spacers.
I might have enough clearance?

You have that a bit backwards. It's 190mm eyelet to eyelet with 51mm of travel.
Mine is 200x51...Just sayiń

I have that same shock on my H-Bike Full FatSix (110mm travel....not sure what your travel is).

Well, there's something wrong with the math??

I'm thinking that @Mike TowpathTraveler is showing the travel of the swing arm itself?
Probably measured at the wheel axle or tire contact patch?
Unless his Monarch shock is over a foot long??

I've got a 4-point rear swing arm which makes the math more difficult.
I couldn't find the specs on the travel of the swing arm itself?

I don't see why not. If mine hadn't slid in by hand on assembly I would have greased it. Mine looked like there was a factory coating of red lock tight on the eyelet part of the pressed in bushing. You can see it in the video. This is the first larger diameter part of the bushing.

I was thinking that the access hole would feed grease to the sliding surfaces of the inner and outer bushings, but that plug probably wouldn't access the space between the bushing surfaces?
So I dunno?

No.
Absolutely No
... and No f'n way.
Believe me you don't want to attempt it on the bike for many reasons. First you want to keep everything real clean. Taking it apart and pushing it back together takes a bit of force and you don't want anything in the way. You'll probably get oil and grease everywhere. You'll want to do an inspection from all sides. I didn't remove any O_rings as they easily damage.. I wiped them down in place using a lint free cloth.

Well,..
I might just give it a try to see how it goes.
If it doesn't work, I'll just fully remove it and do it the approved normal way.

If I had to do it again.. It would probably take an hour without rushing.

It would probably take me the same amount of time because I don't pay any attention to what I'm doing, and have to relearn everything over again the next time around.
That of course will include the extra time it takes to try and not remove the shock then have to remove the shock anyway.

I should be a little faster by the third or fourth shock service, but with all the Vado smoke and such, I may completely forget the third and fourth servicing of the shock.

I should start to get faster by the fifth or sixth cleaning, but I'll have lost count by then so I may never know how long it takes?
Or if my shock has ever been serviced?

 

[Gionnirocket]

Well these are the options for the Monarch RL

63mm being the longest stroke.
110mm sounds like fork stroke numbers

Under the spacer is the metal hardware that sets the width to match your bike and slides into the bushing. So on the bike you measure from outside spacer to outside spacer. That's what the air can will need to clear. Mine was a few mm too wide so I had to remove the piece circled in red above.

Just put it in a vise... You'll be thankful you did.
If you don't have aluminum soft jaws.. Some oak blocks are strong enough.

 

[PCeBiker]

Well these are the options for the Monarch RL

View attachment 191456
63mm being the longest stroke.
110mm sounds like fork stroke numbers

On a fork, the stroke number is the same as the travel.
A rear shocks stroke number gets multiplied by the swing arm geometry.

My 4-point pivoting swing arm makes the math all complicated.
Even as the the shock is compressing, the math changes because the angle of the shock relative to the frame is changing which changes the compression rate.

The same basis design can be used with any shock length giving the same travel distance at the rear wheel, depending on the geometry of the swing arm.

Under the spacer is the metal hardware that sets the width to match your bike and slides into the bushing. So on the bike you measure from outside spacer to outside spacer. That's what the air can will need to clear. Mine was a few mm too wide so I had to remove the piece circled in red above.
View attachment 191457

I'm 98% sure that I've got clearance,..

It's just really hard to take the picture.

Just put it in a vise... You'll be thankful you did.
If you don't have aluminum soft jaws.. Some oak blocks are strong enough.

I'll probably end up having to do that, but I'm going to try and do a 5 minute quick service job like how the professionals do it.

My Slickoleum arrives tomorrow, but I still need the fork oil.
I found a 32 oz bottle of Rock Shox 15 wt suspension oil for about $50 CAD with tax and shipping.

The Lucas Oil from Canadian Tire would have to be shipped to my house.

 

[PCeBiker]

My Slickoleum arrives tomorrow, but I still need the fork oil.

It's Here !!!
I'm All Excited !!!

And,..
I've done some research,..

Monarch air can service - oil alternative

Anyone know of a cheaper alternative for the Maxima® Maxum4 Extra 15w 50?

www.mtbr.com

So F-The Fork Oil !!!
I'm Using Slickoleum !!

And It Works As A Volume Spacer !!!!

I've got whole crapload of it now, and I know All About gooping grease All Over Stuff.

The instructions say to go to the hospital if it gets injected under the skin.

That doesn't have to be intentional.
I know all about that too.
(although I haven't needed to go to the hospital yet.)

So I've got everything I need to goop up my shock !!!

I'm putting a Big Ole Volume Spacer In !!!



I stuck my finger in it and it didn't hurt At All.
It didn't taste that bad either.

 

[PCeBiker]

Now instead of spending $80 on a rebuild kit, I'm getting $80 worth of Slickoleum and Lucas Fork Oil.

So I'm down to Fiddy Bucks for enough grease to last me 20 years even if I grease my shock every three weeks like I'm supposed to.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Well guys, I had to go out and check on the rear shock after I just ASSumed mine was a 110- Monarch RL......

D'oh...... it's a Monarch RT3......... 190x51!

The Rock Shox Bluto fork is a 110mm stroke. I think....

 

[PCeBiker]

D'oh...... it's a Monarch RT3......... 190x51!

I'll be deflating my shock shortly, so I'll take a rough measurement of the full travel of my rear wheel.
I have no idea what the travel is? But I've never bottomed out.

I'm going to ride it first to get a really good feel for it before I add a Big Ole Air Volume Spacer to see if I can feel any difference.
That way I can procrastinate everything until Spring Fever kicks in and I finally get my ebike put back together.

It's still too cold to think about Spring right now.