Luna Z1 - First impressions

[Jeffr]

Overall I am happy enough with how things are turning out but if it is only good for 20 miles of ride time it will be up for sale.....Oh, and there are absolutely no issues with chain line or hitting the chainstay in the lowest gear. Must be because it doesn't have the special Hydra rear end that was developed in house and LUNA forgot to rip that part off, which supposedly was the special part to begin with.....oh the drama

I went on a real off road MTB ride today, including technical single track, steep (very steep) fire road, and lots of in between. Majority of time spent in level 1, some in level 2, only for the steepest climbs (20+% grade) did I go to level 3-4.
Suspension is sublime, the ride on this bike is every bit as good as a Levo. The bike handles better than anything I have ever ridden in tight turns, technical single track and speed descents.
The bad - even though 80% of the ride was in assist level 1-2, battery died at 17.1 miles with a voltage of 44.5 v. I Was providing moderately to high pedal assist the entire way - no throttle use. The battery had been through 3 cycles already.
In summary - the bike is amazing but the endurance is simply unacceptable in real world usage. Im going to recharge overnight and give it one more try, but I have to say Z1 is fabulous if you never ride more than 15 miles, otherwise it is a dud. Is LunaCycle reading this???

 

[Jon A]

Is your battery completely dying--going from working at full power to completely shutting off? Normally with these motors as the batter gets low, the controller puts it into a "low power mode," limiting the power (somewhere around 500W) but still working and extending your range quite a few miles.

 

[Solarcabin]

• I'm still trying to figure out how to get a rear rack on this for my longer rides for carrying tools and aux batteries. Not sure about clamping to the dropper post outer tube.

I use a seat post rack I got on Amazon and works great:

DIRZA Rear Bike Rack Bicycle Cargo Rack Quick Release Adjustable Alloy Bicycle Carrier 115 lbs Capacity​

I don't use the down supports and not needed. That way I can transfer it to any of my bikes for use.

 

[rtp]

The pricing swings on this bike were also interesting. I ordered mine on 11/28 and picked it up on 12/1. I paid $4200 and 3 days later it was $4800. Now it's back to $4500 but they appear out of stock on the medium frame. Still a good value but Luna appears to be watching the market closely.

I expect on this one the BF one was bikes in hand, let's launch the new bikes - intentionally with the RockShox components and at the price they did. The next batch/pre-order was <what suspension can we get enough of> and is probably the 'non-BF/launch' pricing, IMO. I missed the $4800 - but the BikTrix Monte (CANBUS Ultra) has un-named front shock at least and IIRC starts at $5k, so I don't think the price is unreasonable, even if we'd all be happy with less. I wasn't able to build the same bike in component only cost (frames and shipping have gone way up over past N months/year+), although could probably do so for the price of the DNM...

 

[rtp]

I went on a real off road MTB ride today, including technical single track, steep (very steep) fire road, and lots of in between. Majority of time spent in level 1, some in level 2, only for the steepest climbs (20+% grade) did I go to level 3-4.
Suspension is sublime, the ride on this bike is every bit as good as a Levo. The bike handles better than anything I have ever ridden in tight turns, technical single track and speed descents.
The bad - even though 80% of the ride was in assist level 1-2, battery died at 17.1 miles with a voltage of 44.5 v. I Was providing moderately to high pedal assist the entire way - no throttle use. The battery had been through 3 cycles already.
In summary - the bike is amazing but the endurance is simply unacceptable in real world usage. Im going to recharge overnight and give it one more try, but I have to say Z1 is fabulous if you never ride more than 15 miles, otherwise it is a dud. Is LunaCycle reading this???

Did you check in the display your voltage setting? If it's set to 52v but with a 48v battery, it'll cut power well before it should. I think 48v cutoff should be more like in the 40-42v range, no?

 

[rtp]

In other news, finally got to do a real ride on the X2. Not to derail this thread, post is here for anyone interested in the X2: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/luna-x2-first-impressions.46585/

 

[Jeffr]

Did you check in the display your voltage setting? If it's set to 52v but with a 48v battery, it'll cut power well before it should. I think 48v cutoff should be more like in the 40-42v range, no?

Yes display is set to 48v. My other Ultra is powered by 52v and it cuts off at 44v, so I would expect this one to cut off at 42 v. Also I’m using the voltage in the display, not the percent remaining - battery indicator turns red at 47 v, which is barely below 50% for a 48 v battery. Something is notnright

 

[JRA]

I did about the same thing on mine today in three different locations along the way home hitting sucker holes.

Beach riding in softish sand, then some dune trailing. All in 1 with an active spin. Then up a long and mostly steep access road up a mountain that was like Grade 3 roughish/wet/waterbars in mode 3 and lots of time doing an easy spin in granny. Worked like a charm, bike has great grip tubeless @18psi.

As mentioned the suspension works just fine even though I havent' dialed it in yet as I can't find my sus pump that works....The dropper post is still not working and have to mess with that but luckily it is at a good height for me...

Bike is alot of fun to ride but I think I have the same thing going on as above as it is not going down to 42v which IMHO is where it should be. I have a programming cable on the way and it should be a setting in the software? Along with de-tuning the throttle some and seeing if the runout can be messed with.

Something weird did happen at the very end of my last ride in that the chain derailed and wouldn't go back onto the front chainring, like it had stretched so much that the links no longer lined up with the chain ring? Will investigate tomo.

Also got my fenders mounted but they need a little massaging. Lets just say its a work in progress but that initial impressions are positive as long as I can get a good wh/mi ratio going.

 

[Jeffr]

Tried to take a photo of the Galaxy paint in the sun. Photo doesnt do it justice. It’s really sparkly.

 

[blueskyca]

I've got a few more cycles on my Z1 battery and I'm keeping an eye on range. Today I got about 24 miles range on mainly flat terrain with some moderate hills, mainly in PAS 1 & 2. My display was at 9%/46.5V when I returned, about 3.6V cell. Whether this is near fully depleted depends a lot on the specific battery chemistry and manufacturer (see pic). I never hit the LV cutout or felt any power reduction. After about a minute the voltage recovered to 46.9V but only jumped to 10%. After an hour sitting, my display was up to 25% and 47.4V, about 3.65V/cell average. I'm not exactly clear on the specific algo Luna/Bafang is using on their display, but I'm somewhat encouraged by the moderate range improvement after a few charge cycles. I get about 35 miles range on my hub drive bike on similar terrain with a slightly smaller 16AH battery.

 

[JRA]

That is still around 30wh/mi which is at least 10wh/mi more than I would like.....

Got around to tuning up the display today. Wheel size was 26 and battery 52v as noted elsewhere. I skipped the password cause I don't forsee the need to lock up the bike like that but later you could get to another level but you had to have a password. Needed to move on so I'll do that later.

As I've said the white LUNA decals needed to go. Well at least become less obnoxious?


Dialed in the fenders. Mucky Nutz long fronts both ends. Had to make a few holes in the rear one to move it where the side tabs were lined up with the stays.

Tip: If needing to put a hole or slot in thin plastic heat up a thin rod, keeping yourself insulated well from said rod, and push it through. If you use a drill or scissors the hole will crack eventually.

Chain issue I had yesterday fixed itself....ordered a 32t chainring today though to enable some more low end gear selection on steep terrain and switchbacks.

After 20.5 miles my Satiator tells me that to get back to 54.5 it took 9ah's. So that calcs to about 21wh/mi which for me is close enough to what I can live with and expect. The voltage read 47.6 before charging and if it is set to cut off @ 46 as mentioned elsewhere here you are losing a significant amount of Ah's as the battery is a 17.5ah. More time in the saddle will tell but happier about the prospects this evening...

 

[CalyMike]

Got my Z1 Large I'm 6'2 last Wednesday bike looks and rides real nice, though the large white Luna Decal should have been gray put it together pretty easily just adjusted the shocks for my size rides like butter excellent worried about the range as others have noted. Got about 25 miles on mostly level 1 pas minimal throttle I can get about 40 miles same riding on my Frey AM1000 21Battery though it doesn't ride quite as nice and doesn't look as nice. Will do someone tuning really like the bike.

 

[blueskyca]

That is still around 30wh/mi which is at least 10wh/mi more than I would like.....

Got around to tuning up the display today. Wheel size was 26 and battery 52v as noted elsewhere. I skipped the password cause I don't forsee the need to lock up the bike like that but later you could get to another level but you had to have a password. Needed to move on so I'll do that later.

As I've said the white LUNA decals needed to go. Well at least become less obnoxious?
View attachment 109208

Dialed in the fenders. Mucky Nutz long fronts both ends. Had to make a few holes in the rear one to move it where the side tabs were lined up with the stays.

Tip: If needing to put a hole or slot in thin plastic heat up a thin rod, keeping yourself insulated well from said rod, and push it through. If you use a drill or scissors the hole will crack eventually.

Chain issue I had yesterday fixed itself....ordered a 32t chainring today though to enable some more low end gear selection on steep terrain and switchbacks.

After 20.5 miles my Satiator tells me that to get back to 54.5 it took 9ah's. So that calcs to about 21wh/mi which for me is close enough to what I can live with and expect. The voltage read 47.6 before charging and if it is set to cut off @ 46 as mentioned elsewhere here you are losing a significant amount of Ah's as the battery is a 17.5ah. More time in the saddle will tell but happier about the prospects this evening...

I like the decal treatment - what was that?

 

[rtp]

Got my Z1 Large I'm 6'2 last Wednesday bike looks and rides real nice, though the large white Luna Decal should have been gray put it together pretty easily just adjusted the shocks for my size rides like butter excellent worried about the range as others have noted. Got about 25 miles on mostly level 1 pas minimal throttle I can get about 40 miles same riding on my Frey AM1000 21Battery though it doesn't ride quite as nice and doesn't look as nice. Will do someone tuning really like the bike.

Oh - those are the Long and not short MuckyNutz Mugguards? (who knows if I spelled any of that mess right? )
The Luna rework looks good!

 

[Jeffr]

Has anyone figured out how to access the advanced settings? It appears to need a password. I created a start-up password (1919) Which worked to lock out screen on start up, but that did not access the Advanced settings. I am thinking there is an admin password set up by Luna, but they have not responded to query.
The battery continues to go into the "red" at 46.8 volts which should be 50% charge. I tried tricking the display back into the green by entering the battery as 36 and 24 volts, but it didn't make any difference. at 46.8 volts it cuts the power to 500 watts and shows 6% battery remaining.
Im beginning to think there is nothing wrong with the battery rather its in the display or controller.

 

[Jeebuspwnz]

Has anyone figured out how to access the advanced settings? It appears to need a password. I created a start-up password (1919) Which worked to lock out screen on start up, but that did not access the Advanced settings. I am thinking there is an admin password set up by Luna, but they have not responded to query.
The battery continues to go into the "red" at 46.8 volts which should be 50% charge. I tried tricking the display back into the green by entering the battery as 36 and 24 volts, but it didn't make any difference. at 46.8 volts it cuts the power to 500 watts and shows 6% battery remaining.
Im beginning to think there is nothing wrong with the battery rather its in the display or controller.

I figured it out. 1199.

Unfortunately there's nothing in the advanced menu that will impact the battery problem noted. Just speed limit adjustment and number of PAS levels.

I am concerned about the battery shutoff discussed here. I have only done a few short rides and have not brought my charge level down to the point of cutoff, but I did notice the estimated "range" going from something kind of reasonable to nearly nothing at a certain point. I just assumed it was in error, but now I'm thinking it may be indicative of a pending shutdown. Not good.

 

[JRA]

I just cut 3/4" strips off a roll of Real Tree Camo Duct Tape I had in stock and stuck them on. Using a sharp pointed fresh Viccy for the detail work. I have some 3M clear protective tape, same as the "kits" use but much cheaper to put over it to preserve it. Oh, and I wiped it down with alcohol and ran a hair dryer over it before applying. Took about 45 minutes or so....hated the white.

Thanks for the advanced tip. I at least want to try and change the settings to 9 to see if it will dull mode 1 some spreading out the percentages? It is a little touchy doing "the move" if you know what I mean....Otherwise I just got a programming cable today and going to try and do the deed from a Mac, wish me luck...Edit: While doing research on how to ran into this that says you can lower the LVC to 38v: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=99669 Caveat there is what cell structure/ah they are but if they are good cells they should be able to handle it but ultimately it is the bottom safety line of the controller that dictates.

Finished dialing in the rear fender. Took two extensions and a heat gun to get the spray pattern on my coat the way I wanted it, barely there. I have not complaints with the stock front but might put a flap on the bottom to combat build up on the motor.

Finessed the dropper into working order and set to the right height but not happy with the lever so have a new one on the way that I think will have better access.

Jon!'s suggestion about setting to current worked great for the throttle btw. Made it way less touchy. However you want to treat it with respect as it will go to full power if you grab enough of it. Hasn't happened to me because I'm wise to it but trial rides for now are cancelled......

Key factor over the long rear specific ones I mostly saw is the coverage I get between the seat and chainstay that protects that pivot shelf.

 

[Jeebuspwnz]

Alright, I purchased a Bafang cable and connected to the controller. Here were my settings. Of note, my low battery cutoff is set to 41V. I'm not certain if I'm in the "bike dies at 46v camp" because I don't think I've taken any rides long enough yet, but now I absolutely need to do a range test. While I was in there, I did smooth out the assist levels. Haven't tested to see if they feel better as such. Hopefully Friday.

 

[JRA]

Your wheel size is wrong if still set to 26, should be 28 which is what a 27.5 measures in a plus tire.

Interesting that the LVC is set to 41v which is pretty standard although it could be set lower depending on what the actual BMS is set to go off? Seems like a volt above that is doable as long as it isn't stressed every cycle.

On my 18.5 mile ride today I didn't use a program to track it but it is a route I am well familiar with mostly on logging roads with elevation changes some pavement and uphill single track. I had set the mode levels to 9 and used primarily 2, with some 3, 4, 5 mixed in keeping a fairly steady 70-90 rpm cadence. Just checked the charge and used 10ah's which is 480wh's or 26wh's/mi which is more than I had hoped for.

I didn't push the pace any more than I usually do either.

According to Neeko, who recently started posting here, if I lower the current to 25 or 20A which is still 960w peak it should improve but put out only 120nm of torque. Also when I get into the programming I want to go back to the 5 mode setting and tailor that so that 1 is about the same as it is on 9 and set the others accordingly. I found that I was fooling around switching modes too much today trying to coordinate with my gearing to stay on top of the motor which is where it seems to perform the best?

On that note I think the 12spd is going to work out great because it is easy enough to switch between their tighter ratio's to keep up a good cadence. I don't think the Ultra motor likes to be lugged?

There is a low moan from the motor under uphill load but not unpleasant. On flat ground it is virtually silent I have found. Someone said it sounded like a coffee grinder and at least mine doesn't for sure. I hate coffee grinders in the morning!

 

[Jeebuspwnz]

Also worth noting....Luna advertises this bike as 1600 watts. I never see anything more than high 1400s. Seeing as the amps are 30A max, I can see why. Anyone ever see 1600w?