Lightweight Foldable Fastest E Bike??

Maremcredd said:

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Heard of Ziprs F1 Matte Black E Bike??
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out of curiosity I watched a couple video reviews which I assume you have also. It got very good reviews, including throttle only range test of 17 miles on a route with hills and a 200# rider. For a decent power torque sensing bike at $900 current price it looks like a steal compared to heavier, cadence sensing, fat tire bikes that appear lower quality than this one. Almost all of these type bikes are online purchases but if you know your way around a bike that might not be a problem. FWIW I converted 3 different folding bikes with a mid drive, torque sensing 500w tsdz2. A 20", 24" and 26" (the 24 and 26 being Dahon bikes). Each weighed 40-42# without fenders/racks with a 36v 10a (360w) battery so 47# still seems somewhat heavy but still a lot less than some other folder ebikes. with pedaling the 26" bike gets to 22-24mph on flats without too much effort. Of course DIY (or even mail order) isn't for everyone.
 
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Don't need to buy a bare frame, It's matter of finding a donor folder with disk brakes and hinge/frame that one can trust.

The Luna is just your DIY bike done at their shop instead of your garage. I could have built a middrive one, but going 25 mph on 20"x 2" wheels is too fast, especially when you hit rough pavement.
 
I did not have much luck finding donor folders with Disc brakes or I would have built one of these

I never want to go 25 miles an hour on any bike but do like to be able to climb big hills and that’s been the only thing lacking with all of the pre-built stuff

And 38 pounds with everything on it is really light, didn’t see anything in those numbers for weight trying to find a donor bike


would love to know if you have us some suggestions of donor bikes with disc brakes because I would not hesitate to build one of these
 
vincent said:
would love to know if you have us some suggestions of donor bikes with disc brakes because I would not hesitate to build one of these
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I want an airnimal joey sport. https://airnimal.co/products/joey/sport/#.Yh6EvxtOlIc
24" wheels, 24 lb. Not cheap, L1700 in cambridge UK. I'm just afraid I'd go over the handlebars and hit my chin, like the last 2 MTBs and the cruiser did to me 5 times. I could fold it up and carry it on the bus or train around the UK. No taxi charges to museums or heritage railways 25 miles from the bus stop. I could walk the hadrian's wall trail and bike out to a B&B & restaurant every night
My helmet, cable+lock motor & battery would weigh as much as the bike.
 
Thanks Timpo for finding those bikes, I may check those out
I would rather build so I can keep my emv batteries matching or put the battery somewhere else
 
Timpo said:
Tern X11 weighs 22.5 lbs

Verge X11 | Tern Bicycles

Our flagship Verge X11 brings three technological leaps to Tern bikes: 451 wheels, T-Tuned™ geometry, and hyper-wide 1x drivetrains. Explore more.
www.ternbicycles.com www.ternbicycles.com

I don't know how much weight BBSHD, BBS02 or BBS01 conversion would add though?
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The base BBSO2 motor is 8.6 pounds and a 360 Whr battery is about 3.2 pounds The rest of the kit is about 1.2 pounds so total would be 35.5 lbs minus what you take off in cranks etc
I built a 2016 Specialized Roll up for my wife and it weighs 39 lbs
 
I can't speak for Bafang mid drives but the stated weight of a tsdz2 of 3.6kg (8#) includes the chainring and chainguard but does not include crank arms so swapping out the stock crank assembly only subtracts a pound or less (even a cheap bottom bracket cartridge weighs less than a pound) from the overall weight gain. My 36v 10ah (360wh) battery weighs 5 pounds without a carrying case. Overall additional weight of the kit over stock is about 13 pounds which is pretty significant. Most bikes weigh in the upper 20# range. That $2700 Tern has weight shaved with things like 20 spoke wheels, a carbon fiber crankset and probably an ultra light seat and without pedals - add heavy standard crank arms required for a mid drive, commonly used platform pedals, sturdier wheels and a heavier seat and it probably gets up to 26ish pounds like mine. All three of the folding bikes that I installed a tsdz2 on weighed 26 to 28 pounds without rack/fenders and the lightest conversion weighed 40 pounds, the heaviest weighed ~42 pounds, not exactly light but representative. I weighed them with an accurate hanging scale. I'd be interested in actual bike weights from those who have done a conversion using an accurate hanging scale as opposed to using a bathroom floor scale and weighing with the front wheel on the scale plus the weight with the back wheel on the scale - I tried that and it wasn't accurate compared to the hanging scale weight.
 
One of the advantages to the Luna is the ability to add an igh , I don’t know if you can line it up enough to take a belt but someone has managed to get an igh on it

I need to ride one of those tsdz motors and see what I think , that might work too
 
vincent said:
One of the advantages to the Luna is the ability to add an igh , I don’t know if you can line it up enough to take a belt but someone has managed to get an igh on it

I need to ride one of those tsdz motors and see what I think , that might work too
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a IGH solves the tsdz2 chainline issues in my experience. I've mated a tsdz2 to a shimano 3 speed IGH and a Nuvinci N360 - chainline was good for both. Nuvinci hubs are reported to be very durable but I had a N171 which is reported to be the sturdiest and able to take mid drive power fail due to a loose axle - not serviceable. That failure occurred on a non assist bike. Nuvinci are also heavy, the N171 was outrageously heavy, the N360 lighter but still heavy.

I can see some advantage of belt drives but overall over rated. Requires special frame for most, stuck with initial gearing choices without option to change chainring or rear cog size. Chain can be a hassle keeping clean and lubricated but that is outweighed by its advantages to me.

I'm skeptical about the Luna 38# claimed weight unless it is without the battery. My 20"folder has exactly the same frame and other than having rim vs disc brakes it is virtually the same bike. Bafang BBS02 is reported to be 1.5# heavier than a tsdz2 (per internet search "The Bafang BBS02 motor weighs 9.5 pounds") a Luna 52v 13.5ah battery is 7.5# per their web site so overall 4# heavier than my kit but they somehow end up with a 2# lighter bike - overall their would have to be 6# lighter than my 26#bike and lighter than the $2700 ultralight Tern x11. Sorry, not buying their claim for the bike they show with that battery.
 
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This was my 20" folder when I had the tsdz2 on it with 360wh battery in the seat bag. No longer on that bike but it did work great for me.
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Should have clarified I meant the mid drives had the advantage of doing igh- not just Luna bike in particular

would have belts on every single bike I own if it was possible, I hate chains

Belt on a bike you may fold up and put in the car often is a huge plus for not getting chain grease on everything

Personally I am fine with making do with the gears in whatever igh I pick than having the ability to swap out stuff like that on a regular chain driven set up, have never changed any of that on any bike and don’t plan to
5 gear igh would be fine for any riding I would do, sure a 3 would work also if it was my only option

But that is just my personal preference
 
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Hanging weight scales indeed say my bikes are heavier than a bathroom scale. I'll have to rig a hook on the ceiling though. I can't hold up a bike and scales anymore with my arms. I thought my lightest folder was 35lbs om scales, but we'll see.
 
I thought the same on the Luna weight

Just saw in the reviews someone said the bike is 46lbs with the battery

For me weight issue comes into play for folding and putting in the car which I would not leave the battery on the bike for that..
So lifting the bike would be easier

But that may not be the case for everyone riding trains etc

To me that battery is a little big for that bike, I would want a smaller lighter one and wish they sold with the option of purchase without battery
 
vincent said:
Should have clarified I meant the mid drives had the advantage of doing igh- not just Luna bike in particular

would have belts on every single bike I own if it was possible, I hate chains

Belt on a bike you may fold up and put in the car often is a huge plus for not getting chain grease on everything

Personally I am fine with making do with the gears in whatever igh I pick than having the ability to swap out stuff like that on a regular chain driven set up, have never changed any of that on any bike and don’t plan to
5 gear igh would be fine for any riding I would do, sure a 3 would work also if it was my only option

But that is just my personal preference
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FWIW the frame on my 20" folder and the (identical looking) Luna looks like it would accept a standard bike belt because the chain doesn't cross a chainstay with that type of frame. I have no experience with belt drives and likely never will so I don't know what would be involved in converting to a belt.
 
harryS said:
Hanging weight scales indeed say my bikes are heavier than a bathroom scale. I'll have to rig a hook on the ceiling though. I can't hold up a bike and scales anymore with my arms. I thought my lightest folder was 35lbs om scales, but we'll see.
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I went out and weighed my 20" folder which is back to stock form (no tsdz2). With no fenders, a rear rack, folding pedals, WTB seat as shown in the prior image it weighs 27.4 pounds. I don't remember how much the rear rack weighs but ~1.4# for that sounds about right.
 
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vincent said:
I thought the same on the Luna weight

Just saw in the reviews someone said the bike is 46lbs with the battery

For me weight issue comes into play for folding and putting in the car which I would not leave the battery on the bike for that..
So lifting the bike would be easier

But that may not be the case for everyone riding trains etc

To me that battery is a little big for that bike, I would want a smaller lighter one and wish they sold with the option of purchase without battery
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46 pounds (or even a couple pounds less) sounds more realistic, thanks for sharing that info.
 
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