Koomot v Ride With GPS

[Aushiker]

For a long time, I have been a Ride With GPS user for planning out touring routes, which I then exported to my Garmin Edge 1030 for use on the bike. I do not tend to use the RWGPS phone app. I tended to pay for a month's premium membership as needed.

I have just started exploring Koomot but have yet to purchase a year's premium membership, which is currently discounted to USD $ 29.99 for the first year.

I am yet to decide whether to stick with RWGPS or move to Koomot. The collections feature in Koomot is particularly appealing.

I would value your thoughts if you have experience with Koomot or both.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You do not need to pay Komoot premium membership. The one-time flat fee to unlock all regions gives you the most.

I have been a RWGPS member but consider Komoot a better software now.

 

[Aushiker]

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Brian-s]

Although I like komoot, because it allows for planning different activities types, such as hiking or riding, (and different terrain) but I mostly use rwgps, because it shows varia radar alerts on the screen.

 

[Aushiker]

You do not need to pay Komoot premium membership. The one-time flat fee to unlock all regions gives you the most.

I have been a RWGPS member but consider Komoot a better software now.

Although I like komoot, because it allows for planning different activities types, such as hiking or riding, (and different terrain) but I mostly use rwgps, because it shows varia radar alerts on the screen.

I have a similar view after spending some time playing with Komoot. I am inclined to stick with RWGPS and export my hikes to Komoot for synchronisation with my watch, but otherwise will use RWGPS. That said I see RWGPS has 'hike' as an option now.

The one thing I particularly like about Komoot is the tour profile it provides. More detail than RWGPS.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I have a similar view after spending some time playing with Komoot.

I see some issues with route planning using RWGPS. You can only set "Cycling", which typically selects a mixed terrain route for the areas I use to ride, basically it is a "gravel bike" type of ride. Komoot allows you selecting the ride type very precisely, such as "Road", "Touring", "Gravel", "MTB" etc, and you can click the "e-bike ride" option, too.

RWGPS often sends me through a terrain unsuitable for me even if there is a perfect road nearby. Komoot will never do that, and if it does, you will be warned before you even start your ride. Once, I planned a 208 km "Road e-bike ride" and I got a warning I could expect some 200 m of cobbles on the way. Indeed, there was a cobblestone segment there!

 

[Aushiker]

I haven't personally used Komoot, but I've heard good things about its collections feature. If that's something you find appealing and it enhances your touring routes, it might be worth trying out. Ultimately, it's up to you to decide what works best for you.

It turns out that RWGPS has a collections feature as well. I am thinking I will stick with RWGPS and use Komoot for hikes as I can easily export routes to my watch.

 

[Aushiker]

Just coming back to this. While I have decided to commit to RidewithGPS, I am out of interest, and as a backup application on my phone, exporting the GPX Track (with POI) to Komoot.

The routes export okay in terms of routing; however, the curious aspect is the ascent (and descent), varies quite a bit between the applications.

For example:

Day 2 - 74 km - 623 metres of ascent (Ride With GPS) v 70.9 km - 460 metres of ascent (Komoot)

Day 9 - 65.4 km - 323 metres of ascent (Ride with GPS) v 64 km - 140 metres of ascent (Komoot)

Day 16 - 126.5 km - 1,070 metres of ascent (Ride with GPS) v 125 km - 820 metres of ascent (Komoot)

I also did a check with Garmin Connect, and the numbers there mirror RideWithGPS.

I have not done a ride yet to test the apps vs. my Garmin on the bike, but I am interested in why this might be happening from a planning perspective.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@Aushiker: I have found it intriguing, so I made some tests myself. I have analysed my past mountain ride A.

• According to BLEvo/Strava (a recorded ride based on e-bike data): Distance 118.86 km, elevation gain 1628 m
• The same ride with the distance and elevation gain adjusted to the Strava map: Distance 118.90 km, elevation gain 1399 m
• Strava GPX imported to RideWithGPS: Distance 118.9 km, elevation gain 1434 m
• Strava GPX imported to Komoot as Bike Touring: Distance 118 km, elevation gain 1290 m.

The same order of the data from a mountain ride B:

• BLEvo: 1727 m
• Strava 1542 m
• RWGPS 1681 m
• Komoot 1380 m

The elevation data recorded by BLEvo app are based on the smartphone barometric altimeter, and are always off. Neither of the route planners gave consistent results. However, you have might noticed RWGPS had always given the highest ascent of all of them. If you want to keep being conservative for the reasons of ride planning, rely on RWGPS.

Interesting fact is the ascent data I'm getting from Wahoo ELEMNT bike computer are always off compared to Strava map (barometric altimeter again), and that would be probably the same for Garmin Edge for your recorded rides. I guess the barometric altimeter in bike computers may take the atmospheric pressure at the ride start as the reference pressure. However, the atmospheric pressure on the ride would vary not only with the altitude but also during the day, adversely affecting the recorded elevation data. It is not aviation, where the pilot gets the QNH (reference mean sea level pressure) at the take-off and landing but the pressure at high flight altitudes is perfectly known, and the pilot is additionally assisted by the radio altimeter!

 

[Aushiker]

Thanks, Stefan. That is most informative. When the temperatures drop here (a high of 43 C predicted for tomorrow), and I get over this lurgy, I will take the bike for a spin, running both apps and the Garmin Edge. It will be interesting, for interest's sake to see what is recorded.

At least I can scare myself with RWGPS data at home and hope for less climbing each day on the bike

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Another interesting fact: The BLEvo app not only relies on the smartphone barimetric altimeter but it also allows entering the starting point actual altitude above sea level. (It is 92 m a.s.l. where I live). Depending on the atmospheric pressure on a given day, BLEvo comes with totally different initial altitude estimate! (It depends on the barometric pressure at the given moment). It leads me to the conclusion the barometric altimeter used for bike rides is totally inaccurate. I read Garmin Edge uses the barometric altimeter too.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Even under absolute optimal karma, you should expect only about +-30m accuracy from any barometric altimeter you can hold in your hand.

Note that even with a GPS altimeter the likely vertical error is on the order of 5x the horizontal error. This has as much to do with mathematical issues with accurately representing the geode as it does with the inherent accuracy of the system. This error can also vary bewilderingly depending on which datum your GPS is programmed to use, and note that different apps can use different datums (although I do not know if any actually bother to do so).

Also different map datasets at different resolutions can produce wildly different results, and different methods of calculating elevation profiles from map data can also produce different results. These errors can accumulate and while they are often reasonably convergent for short distances they can vary wildly at longer distances.

Also, having the wrong datum programmed in your GPS is a sure way to see some unexpected country.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Even under absolute optimal karma, you should expect only about +-30m accuracy from any barometric altimeter you can hold in your hand.

Note that even with a GPS altimeter the likely vertical error is on the order of 5x the horizontal error. This has as much to do with mathematical issues with accurately representing the geode as it does with the inherent accuracy of the system. This error can also vary bewilderingly depending on which datum your GPS is programmed to use, and note that different apps can use different datums (although I do not know if any actually bother to do so).

Also different map datasets at different resolutions can produce wildly different results, and different methods of calculating elevation profiles from map data can also produce different results. These errors can accumulate and while they are often reasonably convergent for short distances they can vary wildly at longer distances.

Also, having the wrong datum programmed in your GPS is a sure way to see some unexpected country.

I agree. my garmin 1030+ seems pretty consistent. but I think thats because its using two different inputs for that data. its more accurate and reliable then my apple watch.