Kickstand mounting bolts stripped

[Tars Tarkas]

Once you get the bolt out, I think I'd just put a fine threaded bolt back through and tighten it down with maybe a locknut and some Locktite. Use the biggest nut that will fit in the indent and the fattest bolt that will fit through without drilling out the threads, or drill out the threads and put in a bigger one. Bolt from the outside and nut on the inside in the indention made for the nut.

TT

 

[m@Robertson]

This happened to me once and I used nylocks, slightly longer bolts and a couple of washers. The bolts were M6 if I remember right. Here's how you get around the depth issue vs. the rotor: Face the bolts outward, thru from the inside out, and then use button caps - low profile heads - and not the usual socket cap. You hold the bolt head steady with a hex wrench thru the spokes and tighten the washer'd nylock down (while you are at it take care to buy a stainless bolt long enough to hold your Nylock and added washer). No need for loctite if a nylock is in use. You will have to remove the back wheel to get at it from the inside.

McMaster has some REALLY low profile socket caps you can use if you are really in a bind, but an ordinary hardware store button cap M6 should do just fine, assuming yours are M6 (M8 if not an M6). The bolt and threads will not be Imperialist.

Helicoils are a $50 solution to a $2 problem unless you have the components in hand already. And they may not have enough meat to grab onto if the kickstand mount is a 3-4mm thick steel tab. Besides... It was job done in 5 minutes for mine and no need to overthink. Never troubled me again. The added outer washers spread the force on the tab nicely too.

 

[Tars Tarkas]

This happened to me once and I used nylocks, slightly longer bolts and a couple of washers. The bolts were M6 if I remember right. Here's how you get around the depth issue vs. the rotor: Face the bolts outward, thru from the inside out, and then use button caps - low profile heads - and not the usual socket cap. You hold the bolt head steady with a hex wrench thru the spokes and tighten the washer'd nylock down (while you are at it take care to buy a stainless bolt long enough to hold your Nylock and added washer). No need for loctite if a nylock is in use. You will have to remove the back wheel to get at it from the inside.

McMaster has some REALLY low profile socket caps you can use if you are really in a bind, but an ordinary hardware store button cap M6 should do just fine, assuming yours are M6 (M8 if not an M6). The bolt and threads will not be Imperialist.

Helicoils are a $50 solution to a $2 problem unless you have the components in hand already. And they may not have enough meat to grab onto if the kickstand mount is a 3-4mm thick steel tab. Besides... It was job done in 5 minutes for mine and no need to overthink. Never troubled me again. The added outer washers spread the force on the tab nicely too.

Bolts from the inside work fine as long as they stay tight. If they start working loose and stick out (in) closer and closer to the rotor and the spokes you could be in for some serious nastiness. Nylocks are great and may prevent the problem, but why not put them on the inside, especially if they fit in the nut indent? This whole thread is about what can go wrong. Except for the pie, dyke, and apple seed parts.

TT

 

[PCeBiker]

Nylocks are great and may prevent the problem, but why not put them on the inside, especially if they fit in the nut indent?

^^^ What he said.
You don't need a wrench with the indents. That's what they're for.
Personally, I'd drill out the threads. That allows for a larger bolt, and the threads aren't doing much for overall strength of the frame.

All that Sparky731 needs to do is keep an eye on the locknuts to make sure they stay tight.
He should notice any looseness well before the hex head starts to interfere with the brake rotor.
You could use red loctite. It's permanent and needs heat to remove a bolt.
I use orange loctite, it's stronger than blue but still removable without heat.
You could even glue the hex head of the bolt into the indent. That way if the bolt breaks again, it shouldn't float into the brake rotor.

Except for the pie, dyke, and apple seed parts.

TT

Perhaps a plum might help hold everything together?

 

[Sparky731]

^^^ What he said.
You don't need a wrench with the indents. That's what they're for.
Personally, I'd drill out the threads. That allows for a larger bolt, and the threads aren't doing much for overall strength of the frame.

View attachment 149797

All that Sparky731 needs to do is keep an eye on the locknuts to make sure they stay tight.
He should notice any looseness well before the hex head starts to interfere with the brake rotor.
You could use red loctite. It's permanent and needs heat to remove a bolt.
I use orange loctite, it's stronger than blue but still removable without heat.
You could even glue the hex head of the bolt into the indent. That way if the bolt breaks again, it shouldn't float into the brake rotor.



Perhaps a plum might help hold everything together?

All good. My intended fix is a drill-out to eliminate thread interference and then use the same bolt size —inserted from inside-out. I agree that any potential risk for spoke or brake disc interference from a loose bolt should be prior mitigated by an obviously loose kickstand.

Going to the hardware store tomorrow. However I may need more specialized sourcing. Can’t do the job with only one trip to the store. I am at my winter home near Phoenix, and a long way from my better equipped summer home workshop in Wisconsin.

 

[Sparky731]

^^^ What he said.
You don't need a wrench with the indents. That's what they're for.
Personally, I'd drill out the threads. That allows for a larger bolt, and the threads aren't doing much for overall strength of the frame.

View attachment 149797

All that Sparky731 needs to do is keep an eye on the locknuts to make sure they stay tight.
He should notice any looseness well before the hex head starts to interfere with the brake rotor.
You could use red loctite. It's permanent and needs heat to remove a bolt.
I use orange loctite, it's stronger than blue but still removable without heat.
You could even glue the hex head of the bolt into the indent. That way if the bolt breaks again, it shouldn't float into the brake rotor.



Perhaps a plum might help hold everything together?

I am concerned re: red loctite given a predictable need to replace the kickstand in sometime the future. I thought of replacing it now but can find no requisite wear. Your simulation scares me so I will definitely need to secure the bolt as you suggest should it break again and float inwards.

 

[Sparky731]

Bolts from the inside work fine as long as they stay tight. If they start working loose and stick out (in) closer and closer to the rotor and the spokes you could be in for some serious nastiness. Nylocks are great and may prevent the problem, but why not put them on the inside, especially if they fit in the nut indent? This whole thread is about what can go wrong. Except for the pie, dyke, and apple seed parts.

TT

So many considerations. Nut inside or outside? Inside seems lowest risk. You are confirming my uncertainty of a reliable means of securing the bolt if inserted inside out. Thank you.

Still gotta get the broken bolt out.

 

[PCeBiker]

Going to the hardware store tomorrow. However I may need more specialized sourcing.

A hardened steel nut and bolt should be easy to find, and it shouldn't matter if it's metric or imperial, but a threaded sleeve may have to ordered online.
I'm pretty sure all ebikes are metric, especially if your supplied tool kit is metric.

 

[PCeBiker]

So many considerations. Nut inside or outside? Inside seems lowest risk.

I'm pretty sure a nut is thicker than a bolt head, especially if it's a thread lock nut.
I would think that a nut backing off into the rotor is just as dangerous as the bolt head.
If the nut is on the inside, the bolt may have to be shaved down for clearance.
The bolt can stick out a bit on the outside

 

[Gionnirocket]

Maybe it's time to give NASA a call

 

[fooferdoggie]

I've been lurking behind the scene watching this thread, how @Sparky731 going to resolve it.
I too have stripped threads on my Bull's kick stand mounting points.
I have been leaning it on poles when parking, resulting in many scratches on paint.

has there been something you have not broken on that bike?

 

[Sparky731]

I've been lurking behind the scene watching this thread, how @Sparky731 going to resolve it.
I too have stripped threads on my Bull's kick stand mounting points.
I have been leaning it on poles when parking, resulting in many scratches on paint.

 

[Sparky731]

If the the threads will tolerate it (there is sufficient distance internally) I will first try using identical replacement bolts — for sure on the rear hole where the threads are intact. — I am hoping the censors allow me to keep typing ”rear hole.”

I need to stop biking long enough to take the rear wheel off again to take proper measurements of the depth of the hex hole and additional length of bolt needed to attach a nut.

 

[BlackHand]

Maybe it's time to give NASA a call

No need to call NASA - you too can design fasteners like the nut jobs at NASA by taking their 9 part fastener design course on youtube!

Here's the first 1 hour class, it's riveting material

Fastener Design Course by NASA

Fastener Design Course External Online Source: Course 1 http://youtu.be/D6zaVhQkwnY Course 2 http://youtu.be/vkbBpAOM4kM Course 3 http://youtu.be/0BOzXjfu6ww Course 4 http://youtu.be/FYjBJz61bXg Course 5 http://youtu.be/eKcXn1lnN5A Course 6 http://youtu.be/w7adFzZ_ZVA Course 7...

www.fastenernewsdesk.com

 

[m@Robertson]

Bolts from the inside work fine as long as they stay tight. If they start working loose and stick out (in) closer and closer to the rotor and the spokes you could be in for some serious nastiness. Nylocks are great and may prevent the problem, but why not put them on the inside, especially if they fit in the nut indent? This whole thread is about what can go wrong. Except for the pie, dyke, and apple seed parts.

TT

I had no nut indent. And as I said, you do this if you don't have space, which is the whole reason you use the button caps and go inside-out.

With the proper use of the right tools for the job, loosening is not an issue. In particular, religious use of a torque wrench. A second layer of protection would be vibra-tite - never loc-tite. That torque wrench should negate the need for any thread locker, ever, on any part of a bicycle.

If there is less than a thread's worth of fudge available on the nut side, a ribbed lock washer turns any nut into a locking nut. For an M6 and even an M8 they are fingernail-thin. Found at any hardware store. Throw that under a nylock, pay attention to the torque and its never going to move no matter what.

 

[mschwett]

great thread.

if it was my bike, i’d use a dremel to cut a slot into the bolt for the largest flathead that would fit, put a flathead bit on t-handle socket wrench, and get the rest of the bolt/s out. clean up the threads very carefully with a tap, and use a nylock fitted into the indent designed for the purpose with a replacement bolt.

if the thread cleaning goes poorly, drill them out and rely on the nylock nut to keep the bolt in place.

i would not substitute a different size bolt since the nut won’t match the indent, which really makes this more secure than just relying on the threaded aluminum frame. (i’m assuming there’s no insert in there)

 

[PCeBiker]

So many considerations. Nut inside or outside? Inside seems lowest risk. You are confirming my uncertainty of a reliable means of securing the bolt if inserted inside out. Thank you.

Still gotta get the broken bolt out.

It looks like your bolt hole is hollow in the middle.

The kickstand side probably isn't threaded, so that the bolt can thread into the rotor side and pull the bolt tight on the kickstand side.

When your bolt broke, there was probably some good thread in the hollow space in your frame that was easy to thread in with the bolt to push and turn the stud.

The stud is probably slightly damaged at the broken point and that's when your stud stopped turning easily.

The stud could probably thread in easily the other way because it's all clean thread but it may fall into the hollow space in your frame instead of out through the bolt hole.

Turning your stud out now in the same direction as you have been going, is probably going to be difficult because the damaged thread at the break will have to scrape through all the threads on the rotor side of your bolt hole.

 

[Gionnirocket]

This thread has started to hurt my head

 

[m@Robertson]

Seeing above that some of these issues are frames with aluminum threads... and its meant to support a kickstand... makes me think the design team on that bike didn't take use of a kickstand seriously. I mean... who would think thats going to survive long term? By its nature its going to receive lots of torque that will come from different directions, some of which (when standing on the ground at a variety of angles) will be almost worst-case for a nut/bolt or just a bolt in poor, innocent aluminum threads that never asked for that sort of mistreatment.

 

[PCeBiker]

There is also stripped bolt head removers that might fit in there and bite into the stud.