It's Down to 2 Bikes, unless

[StuartKuz]

It's been quite the education, riding so many brands and models. The basic criteria have been:
Class 1;
Somewhat rideable without motor assist;
Mid mounted motor with torque sensor;
Front suspension;
Removeable battery in the down tube;
hardish $4k price ceiling; and not least
LBS that sells and services.

I've learned that at 6'3" I need an XL in most brands and a dropper post to get a 78 yr old hip over the sadlle. I've come to appreciate a display that shows cadence and perhaps shifting suggestions.

I have been riding a TREK 6000 hardtail. The Powerfly 4 hardtail was the latest dissappointment. It rode so heavily even at 54 lbs. The shop said it really needed at least ECO mode to ride on level ground! It checked most of the criteria and would have a dropper, rack and lights added at $4100. https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...powerfly-4-gen-4/p/37043/?colorCode=black_red

The biggest dissappointment was the HARO Doupble Peak I/O. At 48# it rode lightly. The Shimano E6100 was super quiet. It had a 10 speed Deore with 46 tooth large gear (it's more than a little hilly in Colorado). Around $3600 w dropper, but the local LBS has been trying to get info from the fab for months. https://harobikes.com/products/double-peak-i-o-2021

The 2 I have test ridden and am down to choosing between are:
Giant Talon E+ 3 https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/talon-eplus-3-29er-20mph which needs a 1" longer stem;
Specialized Turbo Tero 3 https://www.specialized.com/us/en/turbo-tero-3-0/p/188110?color=317404-188110 which fits well.

The Talon's tweaked Yamaha motor is quieter than the Tero's tweaked Brose. Both have 9 geared Alivios, tho the Talon has Altus shifters which are sweet. The Alivio drivetrain is not as smooth as the Deore's. The Talon's display is unreadable, but the Tero's MasterMind TCD, is very legible and modifiable. Both will need a dropper, and eventually a drivetrain upgrade. Both have larger tires than I think I need, but were quiet and gripped really well. Eventually, the coil shocks on both will be swapped for the lighter weight air shocks.

I think either will be fine, tho I would have liked to find something that needed less upgrades. Either bike would be ordered thru the same responsive LBS that will be glad to have me as customer rather than a looker. Suggestions for alternatives would be great, as well as opinions on these last 2 bikes. Thanks so much.

p.s. Mike, the Vado 4 is a 58 lb class 3 bike. This county has finally approved class 1 bikes on many of the area trails.





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[Ben J]

I'm surprised the Powerfly 4 was a disappointment. On paper, it's more powerful than the Turbo Tero 3. Trek appears to put the same motor in all levels of Powerfly while Specialized scales the motor up with the trim level. I've ridden a Tero 3 and I own a Tero X 6 and you can definitely feel the difference. Again, on paper only, the Powerfly 4 should be closer to the top end.

The dropper post is fantastic, especially for us tall folks who never learned any tricks/habits to stand over big bikes. I'm used to always being able to put my foot down, so I like the dropper for that. And easier mount/dismount is also great. I need to learn to lay off the front brake as I reach an intersection because it's easy to pinch it too hard when you're pushing the dropper with your thumb. I make a few inelegant stops that way each time I'm out.

I find the MasterMind TCD much easier to read than the alternatives I've tried. The display is bright and crisp and it doesn't have a goofy font that makes 5's, 6's and 8's all look the same.

If "class 1" is a requirement, the Tero 3 might be out of the running. As far as I know, it was bumped to class 3 with a firmware update some time ago. Rumor has it you can get the restriction added back by a shop, but it's not something you can do in the app unfortunately.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Just some remarks, Stuart. (Only discussing the Tero 3.0).

Both will need a dropper

The upgrade is not as easy as it seems. Not cheap.

and eventually a drivetrain upgrade

Expensive.

Eventually, the coil shocks on both will be swapped for the lighter weight air shocks.

Very improbable, as most of shocks fitting the Tero are OEM parts.

If you could afford $4,500, the Tero X 4.0 is what you want, and more. It probably can be set to Class 1 by the dealer.

Additional remark: If you believe any of the heavy full power e-bikes is easy to pedal unpowered then you are probably very wrong

 

[StuartKuz]

Thanks for the input BenJ. No question that the Powerfly 4 felt way more powerful- 85 vrs 50Nm. But the setup almost required use of eco mode the whole time. On the Tero and the Talon and more so on the Double Peak i/O it was easy riding the first miles without motor assist. It is a shame the Tero 4 isn't available in the US.

 

[StuartKuz]

Just some remarks, Stuart. (Only discussing the Tero 3.0).


The upgrade is not as easy as it seems. Not cheap.


Expensive.


Very improbable, as most of shocks fitting the Tero are OEM parts.

If you could afford $4,500, the Tero X 4.0 is what you want, and more. It probably can be set to Class 1 by the dealer.

Additional remark: If you believe any of the heavy full power e-bikes is easy to pedal unpowered then you are probably very wrong

If the Tero 4 were available in the US it would be more than tempting. The Tero X 4 is full suspension, which I have trouble seeing in front of the grocery. Given the current situation, riding the Tero 3 or the Talon E+ will work for a while. Any recommendations on which? or an alternative?

 

[Ben J]

The upgrade is not as easy as it seems. Not cheap.

Given his budget and the price of the Tero 3 he could make it easy by buying a Reverb AXS dropper. I bet you could pay LBS to install a cabled based one for less, though!

Another option is to go with the Tero 3 step-through and get used to mounting the bike that way.

The Tero X 4 is full suspension, which I have trouble seeing in front of the grocery

Easier to use at the grocery than the Tero 3, which doesn't have a rack! But I admit I don't take it to the grocery. My grocery-size panniers are set up for the Aventure.2.

You have mentioned a lot of upgrades, probably $1000 worth (plus your grocery rack). Not sure what your timeline for those is, but you'll save a lot in the long run if you buy the bike with the upgrades you want already installed.

I think both of your choices could work for your requirements, but do keep in mind you happen to have two Specialized owners replying in this thread.

 

[StuartKuz]

Given his budget and the price of the Tero 3 he could make it easy by buying a Reverb AXS dropper. I bet you could pay LBS to install a cabled based one for less, though!

Another option is to go with the Tero 3 step-through and get used to mounting the bike that way.


Easier to use at the grocery than the Tero 3, which doesn't have a rack! But I admit I don't take it to the grocery. My grocery-size panniers are set up for the Aventure.2.

You have mentioned a lot of upgrades, probably $1000 worth (plus your grocery rack). Not sure what your timeline for those is, but you'll save a lot in the long run if you buy the bike with the upgrades you want already installed.

I think both of your choices could work for your requirements, but do keep in mind you happen to have two Specialized owners replying in this thread.

So I wonder if the 2 Specialized owners listen to 'They might be Giants' or might their future bikes be Giants. The Shimano and Yamaha motors are sure quiet, but I don't hear that well anymore anyways. Uh, I do not see $800 Dropper posts in my future, hopefully something like the TranzX.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

hopefully something like the TranzX.

Oh yes, and the work of routing the cable through the frame...
Ask the LBS if the upgrade is doable and what the total cost would be.

Besides, I have found the steel coil shocks on new Specialized e-bikes quite adequate (only heavy). I have owned a Giant Trance E+ with air shocks and... Let me tell you, you would not even tell the difference unless riding a hard technical off-road singletrack Bear in mind it is the wide tyres that do the most of the shock absorbing, with the fork only dampening bigger potholes.

 

[DaveMatthews]

My son has had the Talon for over a year now. It's been flawless. The only thing that bugs me (not him) about it is that the battery pack is not upgradeable.
I have a Stance and love the dual suspension (even at the store). I recently upgraded the battery to 800wh.
That said, I don't think you can go wrong with either of your choices.

 

[StuartKuz]

My son has had the Talon for over a year now. It's been flawless. The only thing that bugs me (not him) about it is that the battery pack is not upgradeable.
I have a Stance and love the dual suspension (even at the store). I recently upgraded the battery to 800wh.
That said, I don't think you can go wrong with either of your choices.

 

[StuartKuz]

Thanks for the input. Has your son tried using the Ant+ bluetooth connection to add a readable display? If so which display is he using?

 

[dodgeman]

Do you ride off rode? If not why not get a step through? I am 61 and can still get on a Diamond frame bike but still got a step through. I’m going to agree with Stefan, most e-bikes are going to be heavy and not pedal great with the assist off.

 

[StuartKuz]

Do you ride off rode? If not why not get a step through? I am 61 and can still get on a Diamond frame bike but still got a step through. I’m going to agree with Stefan, most e-bikes are going to be heavy and not pedal great with the assist off.

Thanks Dodgeman. How is the rigidity of the step throughs? Are there any disadvantages? Is it just the mental block of getting a "woman's bike"?

 

[DaveMatthews]

Thanks for the input. Has your son tried using the Ant+ bluetooth connection to add a readable display? If so which display is he using?

Surprisingly he doesn't even load the app on his smartphone! No he uses no other display at all. Strange as he is a complete geek otherwise!

 

[StuartKuz]

Do you ride off rode? If not why not get a step through? I am 61 and can still get on a Diamond frame bike but still got a step through. I’m going to agree with Stefan, most e-bikes are going to be heavy and not pedal great with the assist off.

Yes, I do ride off road, and washboard roads, not every day but they are fun and away from traffic.

Most ebikes are heavy and are not fun to ride far without assist. I have found hardtails that work well. Typically 46-48 lbs. Yamaha YDX Torc, Haro Double Peak I/O, Orbea Urrun H40, Kona DEW E+, Giant Roam E+, Kona El Kahuna, and Gazelle T9 are some of the ones I've ridden. Yeah, I got 2 much into looking for the 'right' bike. I'll pick the Talon or Tero, when the LBS calls back and be ecstatic.

 

[dodgeman]

I ride my step through mostly on paved roads but they are rural roads and are often very rough. I’ve got about 3500 miles on mine and so far so good. The good thing about an e bike is they are built a little heavier and stronger because unlike some of the very light road bikes weight is less of a concern since you have the assist. I also looked very hard at diamond frame bikes but they are just a little hard for me to get on. I also had the “girls“ bike stigma in my head but I’m past the age where I’m trying to look cool.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Thanks Dodgeman. How is the rigidity of the step throughs? Are there any disadvantages? Is it just the mental block of getting a "woman's bike"?

My step-thru cost less than the ebikes under consideration here but has a well-designed aluminum frame.

Can't say that I've ever felt the frame flex — even on bumpy trails at speed. Would imperceptible flex cut into pedaling efficiency? That's the motor's problem. (Almost always ride at lowest assist.) Would it take a significant bite out of battery range? Hard to imagine. Will the frame eventually fail at the bottom bracket? Doubt it short of frequent technical offroad, but who can say?

When we shopped for ebikes, my wife dared me to try a step-thru. Instant convert. Women can't be wrong about everything.
;^}

 

[StuartKuz]

So 1/2 the money for the new bike was paid yesterday, delivery within 2 weeks. The difference between the Alivio and Deore drivetrains were part of the reason for the change of plans. Another was the county deciding last Monday that class 1 bikes are now approved on trails and paths on many of the trails and paths. My desire for a less conspicuous battery kind of fell by the wayside. The third was a 20% off for the 2022 models. Oddly the '22 has an air shock while the '23 has a spring coil. I'll post photos after the first rides. A dropper post will be added after a few rides. As advised in this forum, the shop at the LBS was consulted before ordering the bike, they thought 20 minutes and $250 would do the job. BTW, here's the Kona. The '22 in a different color. Thanks to all for the education so far.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

BTW, here's the Kona.

Congratulations on making your choice and on the new e-bike, Stuart! A surprising choice given the Kona was not in your original plans! Many happy miles!

 

[StuartKuz]

The first 2 ebikes I rode were the Dew E and the El Kahuna. I wanted a more discreet internal battery. After seeing the compromises that the Talon and Tero would be, I decided that since compromise was necessary, this was the best compromise. Thanks for your input during the search.