Upgrade a new bike?

[Stefan Mikes]

The Vado 4 SL I rode in the fall had no suspension, and the sales rep said the tires would have to be less than 700x50.

It is ideally 700x42 for SL 4.0 non-eq, and it is 700x38 max for the EQ. The whole idea of Vado SL is you are avoiding any extra weight on that e-bike, and 38mm to 42 mm width are the proper gravel tyres. Gravel cyclists do not use the suspension. Fitness e-bikes such as Vado SL have no suspension to reduce the e-bike weight (only SL 5.0 has the lightweight Future Shock suspension stem).

By the way, the Vado SL 4 EQ was the only e-bike I own that underwent massive intentional upgrades (that well ate all the savings compared to SL 5 EQ). The reason was I did not want to buy an e-bike with a carbon fork (as I am a heavy rider and the I could easily exceed the allowed system weight). I needed a flat bar gravel e-bike that could also serve as a daily utility ride (that eliminated Creo EVO).

Redshift ShockStop suspension front/rear, Innerbarends, gravel tyres, appropriate pedals, and several Range Extenders. I guarantee the cost including the upgrades was far higher that I would pay for the Vado SL 5.0.
Notice forward sporty riding position achieved.

 

[Greydog]

I just read an article a few days ago about gravel tires. The top pro gravel racer uses smooth tires for racing on gravel and others are following suit. The theory is that there is greater contact between the gravel and the tire with a slick tire. Makes sense, no?

 

[TrevorB]

To save costs Specialized use the same name for 2 totally different ebikes. Turbo Vado are heavy (around 50lbs) trekking/commuting ebikes with powerful motors, front shock and large battery. The SL is light weight low powered sportier hybrid type bike.

Checkout Turbo Vado 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0, specs and $ go up with model number.

Unless you need to lift or carry bike on regular basis, weight really doesn't matter much. Removing battery will drop few lbs.
Can actually push them up stairs in walk mode if need be.

 

[TrevorB]

Just looked at Cube range which is now quite extensive in NZ and heavily discounted 30% off. That might be because we are going into winter but did hear supply globally has caught up with demand so you might be able neg a bit on price.
Here they have quite few fully spec models in trekking/commuting range. NB Cube is biggest european manufacturer and tend to be well spec bikes for money.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I just read an article a few days ago about gravel tires. The top pro gravel racer uses smooth tires for racing on gravel and others are following suit. The theory is that there is greater contact between the gravel and the tire with a slick tire. Makes sense, no?

It is not really like that. Gravel tyres are expected to be suple, fast rolling, and maintaining a good grip on cornering. Often, these are tubeless tyres to be ridden at low inflation. For instance, Specialized Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss (ideally to be used tubeless but no issue to use the inner tube) have a slick central tread with little knobs "growing" outside. These tyres are made with the fast rolling but grippy and suple Gripton compound.

 

[Greydog]

It is not really like that. Gravel tyres are expected to be suple, fast rolling, and maintaining a good grip on cornering. Often, these are tubeless tyres to be ridden at low inflation. For instance, Specialized Pathfinder Pro 2Bliss (ideally to be used tubeless but no issue to use the inner tube) have a slick central tread with little knobs "growing" outside. These tyres are made with the fast rolling but grippy and suple Gripton compound.

I am just repeating what the article and the pro rider who is winning with slick tires said and apparently other pro gravel racers are following suit.. I have no experience riding on gravel.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I am just repeating what the article and the pro rider who is winning with slick tires said and apparently other pro gravel racers are following suit.. I have no experience riding on gravel.

Pro riders often win gravel ultramarathons riding road bikes (only on slightly wider tyres). What is good for the winner is not necessarily good for the rest of the bunch, and it is certainly not good for you or me. (The gravel ultramarathon winner is a superhuman!) There has just been an online discussion before the June gravel ultramarathons (350 and 160 mile groups) here. The guy who is usually taking one of the first places in the long race jokingly asked: 'So what tyre width do you recommend for the Mazovian sandy roads?" Everybody laughed as that man knew the best what he would be riding!

The achievement of a Polish road ultramarathon rider. He completed a 622.6 mile ride with 10,666 ft elevation gain in some 50 hours. Meaning, he did not really stop or sleep during the ride!

 

[Greydog]

The jist of the article was that slick tires tend to be faster because of greater contact with the gravel road. I have no reason to not believe him.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

The jist of the article was that slick tires tend to be faster because of greater contact with the gravel road. I have no reason to not believe him.

Of course the slick tyre is the fastest rolling. What about the grip you need on cornering, or in harder terrain often ridden by gravel cyclists, or in the wet conditions or in the mud? There is also the matter of suspending your bike (the only suspension being the tyres). Most of pro gravel riders use lowly inflated tubeless tyres. The pro you are quoting certainly knows what is the best for him but you would not risk crashing on cornering, would you

I indeed use slick, grippy and wide 2" tyres on one of my e-bikes, and these are adequate for most of situations. Several weeks ago, I rode fast on a forest fire-road. My rear wheel hit a tiny puddle... My e-bike lost the traction and I ended flying together with my e-bike. The helmet saved my head. However, it was one of the baddest crashes I've ever had. I have still not fully recovered from that crash! Now, I ride the forests really slowly on that e-bike...

Riding slick tyres is asking for trouble. April 5th, 2023.

 

[juggernaut]

Everyone to their own, but after a month of ownership, I've made a few "upgrades" to mine.

Palm grips (done by LBS)
C/F bottle cage
Bell with Apple airtag
De-stickered wheels / forks / frame
Swapped Marathon+ tyres for Super Moto's (28/29 x 2 inch front 28/29 x 2.4 inch rear)
Swapped Tektro 180mm rotors for 203mm(F) /180mm (R) Icetech rotors
Swapped Tektro resin pads for Tektro Ceramic pads
Garminised - Garmin 830 Edge / Speed Sensor / Cadence Sensor / Varia UT800 / RTL515

Still to be fitted:

Selle SMP TRK Gel Saddle
Redshift suspension seatpost

 

[StuartKuz]

Nice, clean looking bike! What info do you gain from the Garmin that is not available from the bikes display?
Best wishes for many happy miles ahead.

 

[juggernaut]

Nice, clean looking bike! What info do you gain from the Garmin that is not available from the bikes display?
Best wishes for many happy miles ahead.

Thanks for the compliments.

I had the Garmin from my other bike so no real additional cost. Knowing this I downgraded the display from a larger 750c centre display to a smaller left hand side 500c display from the earlier models when I ordered the bike. I only really use the bike display to wake up the bike using the security pin, then to monitor battery level and PAS level.

Coupled with the speed sensor, i can enter the exact rolling diameter of the tyre having regard to my tyre width/profile, pressure and total loaded weight in the Garmin The bike display only allows for wheel diameter changes so it is less accurate for speed and distance than the Garmin. The bike display also doesn’t have cadence which I like to use to keep my cadence in the 80 to 90 rpm range.

The Garmin also automatically turns on the front headlight and shows rear approaching cars from the radar rear light. The Garmin also shows moving time and speed as well as total elapsed time of each journey. So sitting at traffic lights doesn’t affect average moving speed if that is important to you. It also warns of sharp turns on bike paths and notifications for missed phone calls, has journey planning, mapping and routing.

Weather dependant, I have ridden the bike to work everyday since taking delivery, and keep it in my office where the above photo was taken.

 

[StuartKuz]

Thanks for the compliments.

I had the Garmin from my other bike so no real additional cost. Knowing this I downgraded the display from a larger 750c centre display to a smaller left hand side 500c display from the earlier models when I ordered the bike. I only really use the bike display to wake up the bike using the security pin, then to monitor battery level and PAS level.

Coupled with the speed sensor, i can enter the exact rolling diameter of the tyre having regard to my tyre width/profile, pressure and total loaded weight in the Garmin The bike display only allows for wheel diameter changes so it is less accurate for speed and distance than the Garmin. The bike display also doesn’t have cadence which I like to use to keep my cadence in the 80 to 90 rpm range.

The Garmin also automatically turns on the front headlight and shows rear approaching cars from the radar rear light. The Garmin also shows moving time and speed as well as total elapsed time of each journey. So sitting at traffic lights doesn’t affect average moving speed if that is important to you. It also warns of sharp turns on bike paths and notifications for missed phone calls, has journey planning, mapping and routing.

Weather dependant, I have ridden the bike to work everyday since taking delivery, and keep it in my office where the above photo was taken.

Thanks for the info. It sure exceeds what most 'displays' show. So you need a sensor on a pedal to get cadence info and another on one of the hubs for speed. Is there a sensor that can show torque and recommends shifting?

As I test ebikes with the motor on, I never know when the situation calls for shifting, if the motor is just working harder and harder or if I should just shift. I've seen this info- with shift recommendations- on a couple of Shimano and Bosch higher price displays and found them useful.

 

[juggernaut]

Thanks for the info. It sure exceeds what most 'displays' show. So you need a sensor on a pedal to get cadence info and another on one of the hubs for speed. Is there a sensor that can show torque and recommends shifting?

As I test ebikes with the motor on, I never know when the situation calls for shifting, if the motor is just working harder and harder or if I should just shift. I've seen this info- with shift recommendations- on a couple of Shimano and Bosch higher price displays and found them useful.

The cadence sensor mounts onto the crank arm and comes supplied with 3 different sized rubber band type mounts which you choose depending on the diameter of your crank arm. I also use a zip tie for additional security. If you look closely at the above pic, you can see the cadence sensor on the crank arm. You can get clip in pedals with built in cadence sensors that pro road cyclists use, but once you see the price of these I'm sure you be happy with the Garmin offering.

You don't "need" a speed sensor since the Garmin is first and foremost a GPS that can show speed and distance. However, I've found if the Garmin can't get a clear shot of the sky then things can go awry. For instance, my office is in the city and riding down the side of tall buildings can show inaccurate tracking/positioning. Also if take the Garmin inside to charge and happen to turn it on, it can start a journey when obviously you are not. Once the speed sensor is fitted to the wheel hub and paired with the Garmin, the tracking issues ceased since its searches for the speed sensor when the unit is turned on and takes its commands from that sensor. The speed sensor can be calibrated in two ways depending on preference. Auto calibrate by riding along a flat road for sufficient distance and the unit will tell you when the calibration has completed. Alternatively, manually calibrate to the mm by entering in the rolling diameter of the tyre which is what i do.

FYI the cadence and speed sensors can be bought as a bundle. And you can have multiple sensors fitted to various bikes thereby only requiring the purchase of one head unit which you can just move from bike to bike depending on which one you are using.

I'm not aware of torque nor shifting sensors. In a way the watt output on the bike's display will be evidence of the level of torque you and the bike are collectively generating - although I don't really take any notice of this on my bike. I found the cadence sensor was a game changer for me to determine when to shift. And it really comes down to your fitness levels and your leg power. Generally you will save your legs if you can ride at a higher cadence level for a given speed but this will then test your aerobic fitness. So its a continual trade off between the two and I am slowly trying to increase my fitness and therefore cadence.

I realise we are riding ebikes, but I keep my bike in PAS level 1 99.9% of the time as I enjoy/"need" the exercise and can still hit speeds of around 47klms/hr in short stints - which is about what I have found the faster racing bike cyclists ride at on there way to work. PAS levels 2 and 3 might be the highest I use to ride up a hill, and I find PAS levels 4-9 are generally overkill and have only used these levels once.