Is it safe to freely use the throttle WHILE PEDALING on a mid drive?

[Jeremy McCreary]

The more we push, the more we polarize, and in doing are no better than the person we push.....
It is a silly and destructive game, and a humongous waste of time.

Not sure about the "no better" part, but definitely a total waste of time and stress hormones. It's really hard not to get provoked sometimes. And some members apparently live to push others' buttons any way they can.

Much less reluctant to hit the [Ignore] button on habitual trolls these days. Yes, some have a lot to offer otherwise. But remember that blissful "Ah, peace!" feeling when a loud chainsaw or leaf blower or boombox finally stops? It's like that.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Please consider another FACT. Some (most?) of us could care less about that Strava -OR- any feature on it! You want to talk Strava "features" go to the right section of the forum (NOT GENERAL!) and brag your heart out.

Does any of your throttle e-bikes present the number of calories burnt on the ride by the rider together with the distance ridden and the elevation gain? Yes or no?

 

[Tars Tarkas]

Yawn. It depends on exactly what you mean, but anyone who wants that information can get it from any one of dozens of available apps. Throttle or not. The rest of us DON'T CARE!

TT

 

[m@Robertson]

The Walk Mode works as long as you are walking the bike. That is, the speed sensor reports rear wheel RPM > 0, speed < 6 km/h, torque on the pedals = 0. It is not rideable because nobody will ride with their feet hanging in the air and avoiding pedal strokes against their feet. Walk Mode is not a throttle. Not on a mid-drive.

No thats wrong. Walk mode on all of my bikes works just fine without any issues whatsoever associated with putting your feet on the pedals. That includes both hub motors and mid drives.

Its still not practical to ride that way for the reasons I stated. Sometimes on the shared use paths here there are so many tourists staring slackjawed at the sea lions or otters that you have to wend you way very slowly and carefully thru them on the oceanside path.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

No thats wrong. Walk mode on all of my bikes works just fine without any issues whatsoever associated with putting your feet on the pedals. That includes both hub motors and mid drives.

Do you own any mid-drive motor e-bike from one of the biggest four brands?
Those, and other producing for the huge Euro market make it impossible to ride in the Walk Mode with your feet on the pedals. EU says: "No throttle on e-bike whatsoever".

 

[m@Robertson]

Regarding this ridiculous fork over the need for data while cycling:

The need for such things... It signals you are in the realm of the dilletante. The poser.

In the 21st century this preoccupation is equivalent of the rider who wears branded cycling jerseys when I was a younger (and stronger) analog rider. Back in the day (talking 1970's here) if some jackass wore a jersey like that everyone on the ride instantly knew them to be what we call a 'poser' now and a 'wannabe' then. Real riders wore the jerseys their team gave them as part of their compensation. If no team membership, then you wear a plain jersey because a) its just a shirt and you're paid to wear it or b) you didn't earn the right to wear it. The same goes for people wearing shirts that commemorate some riding event. If you rode in it, you had the right to wear the jersey. Otherwise you'd better not.

I have removed the displays on my bikes and gone back to bare minimum. Panels that do nothing but let me select the PAS level, and show me current speed. I'd do without that if I could find something that would. On my green Bullitt the display is in the handlebar bag. Only the PAS panel is on the bars.

Try this for a change: STFU and just ride. Put the data away and stop looking at it entirely. We all got along just fine for most of our lives without this nonsense. You want to know how much you are riding? Count your unused belt loops. Look at your gut in the mirror. If you can stand the sight of yourself, you are doing it right. If not, STFU and go ride.

 

[m@Robertson]

Do you own any mid-drive motor e-bike from one of the biggest four brands?
Those, and other producing for the huge Euro market make it impossible to ride in the Walk Mode with your feet on the pedals. EU says: "No throttle on e-bike whatsoever".

No and so what? The topic is walk mode, not EU regulations and not brand snobbery. I have walk mode. It behaves as I say it does. The End.

EDIT: This is a mind-numbingly stupid thing for an otherwise intelligent person to argue about. You crave conflict when none is warranted. Except to satisfy this craving of yours.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

No and so what? The topic is walk mode, not EU regulations and not brand snobbery. I have walk mode. It behaves as I say it does. The End.

PDoz was claiming his Levo SL was equipped with the throttle. Not. It is equipped with the Walk Mode button to walk the e-bike not ride it. AFAIK, most of good e-bikes available in Australia are Euro e-bikes.

 

[PDoz]

PDoz was claiming his Levo SL was equipped with the throttle. Not. It is equipped with the Walk Mode button to walk the e-bike not ride it. AFAIK, most of good e-bikes available in Australia are Euro e-bikes.

I was pointing out walk mode is simply a poor quality throttle. You seem to struggle to accept specialized do something badly?

Australia is a small market, we allow throttles but restrict the output to 200 w and ( I think) 20 k. , then " full power" 250 whatevers up to 25 k.

So we have bafang and stealth bikes with switchable capability between illegal / private property , and we get euro spec bikes from the large manufacturers. Thankfully , nobody has challenged the legality of the walk button on euro spec bikes , nor have they challenged to 250 whatevers on full power bikes.

As for " good" bikes , the bafang motor is improving and there are frame manufacturers delivering interesting options. I'm much more interested in the internal gearbox options, and if one of them comes out with a throttle and reasonable weight / reliability I'd be lining up with visa in hand!

I'm not a fan of the motor in my SL specialized - too fragile and a bit noisy. I love the rest of the riding package, so put up with it. Meanwhile, I'm working hard on my fitness in the ( futile) hope I can return to normal bikes . Five motors in 5 years makes me feel guilty about the environmental cost of " good" ebikes from giant / specialized.

 

[AHicks]

Does any of your throttle e-bikes present the number of calories burnt on the ride by the rider together with the distance ridden and the elevation gain? Yes or no?

All will record distance, and I could not possibly care less about elevation gain.

 

[keithj69]

I'm so glad I am happy with my purchase and could care less about the throttle conversation. I enjoy the fact that we all have at least 3 common things here, a bike, a motor, and a battery. That 4th thing, meh. Whatever. We all have a reason to have one or not. It shouldn't make us better or worse than the other. Ride your ebike (CHEATER!) and enjoy. Share as you can so the others can see what the brand/model you have can do.

 

[linklemming]

All will record distance, and I could not possibly care less about elevation gain.

You dont need strava for all the features mentioned. I have a garmin edge 25 and Instinct Solar tactical and have used garmin connect since 2019.

Im more about just recording the rides more than creating a polish circle jerk around strava stats. I have no need to PROVE anything, if someone doesnt believe what I have to say about rides, so be it.

Strava does have some features like %grade I use occasionally

How ironic that someone who constantly complains about people going off topic completely pollutes this thread.

Dont be a Stefan

 

[mschwett]

Regarding this ridiculous fork over the need for data while cycling:

The need for such things... It signals you are in the realm of the dilletante. The poser.

In the 21st century this preoccupation is equivalent of the rider who wears branded cycling jerseys when I was a younger (and stronger) analog rider. Back in the day (talking 1970's here) if some jackass wore a jersey like that everyone on the ride instantly knew them to be what we call a 'poser' now and a 'wannabe' then. Real riders wore the jerseys their team gave them as part of their compensation. If no team membership, then you wear a plain jersey because a) its just a shirt and you're paid to wear it or b) you didn't earn the right to wear it. The same goes for people wearing shirts that commemorate some riding event. If you rode in it, you had the right to wear the jersey. Otherwise you'd better not.

I have removed the displays on my bikes and gone back to bare minimum. Panels that do nothing but let me select the PAS level, and show me current speed. I'd do without that if I could find something that would. On my green Bullitt the display is in the handlebar bag. Only the PAS panel is on the bars.

Try this for a change: STFU and just ride. Put the data away and stop looking at it entirely. We all got along just fine for most of our lives without this nonsense. You want to know how much you are riding? Count your unused belt loops. Look at your gut in the mirror. If you can stand the sight of yourself, you are doing it right. If not, STFU and go ride.

i think that’s a really silly comparison. wearing a jersey with some team’s livery on it is all about what you look like - most likely what you want other people to see, maybe what you personally enjoy looking like. I think it’s ludicrous but I don’t wear anything with graphics or super obvious branding, whether I’m on a bike or not. it’s just not something I like.

collecting data on your bike rides or other exercise means nothing to everyone around you. it doesn’t impress other riders on the road or MUP, who can’t see your screen. they don’t know, don‘t see it, and don‘t care. sure you could blab about it on social media, but almost nobody does that. the vast majority of people who are into cycling data use it to track their progress, look for interesting patterns or trends in their performance, and for the most part do it after the ride. I find it very interesting and valuable, looking at trends in heart rate relative to power, cadence relative to power, how wind or rest or temperature affects a ride. it’s interesting and satisfying to observe. while I might discuss a route or particularly interesting segment with somebody, I would not (nor would anyone I know!) go on blast with their power stats or FTP being up a few watts or something.

your equivalent of wearing team clothes for a team you’re not part of in the 21st century is still … wearing team clothes!

as for what kind of bike, it really doesn’t matter. you can throw some cheap power pedals on virtually any bike, connect them to your phone, and have power, cadence, speed, and mapping. i put a set on my vanmoof once for fun, it didn’t turn me into a poseur or the bike into a $15k race bike. it was just very interesting to see how it took nearly the twice the power to go fast as my road bike.

in the 70s you also did without ebikes and the internet. and yet, here you are….

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thankfully , nobody has challenged the legality of the walk button on euro spec bikes , nor have they challenged to 250 whatevers on full power bikes.

Because you cannot ride a Specialized e-bike in the Walk Mode. The crank has to rotate in that mode. Whenever you put your feet on the pedals and the torque sensor detects the torque, the Walk Mode is gone.

I have a garmin edge 25 and Instinct Solar tactical and have used garmin connect since 2019.

I have a Wahoo ELEMNT bike computer that connects to my e-bikes and provides useful ride metrics including the e-bike data as well as it transfers these data to any of many Sports Trackers services of your choice. Garmin Edge computers are very similar.

I have no need to PROVE anything

So you (or anybody else) cannot prove the throttle e-bikes provide any significant workout. Be ridden by your throttle e-bike then. Or, carry your ass on it.

collecting data on your bike rides or other exercise means nothing to everyone around you. it doesn’t impress other riders on the road or MUP, who can’t see your screen. they don’t know, don‘t see it, and don‘t care. sure you could blab about it on social media, but almost nobody does that. the vast majority of people who are into cycling data use it to track their progress, look for interesting patterns or trends in their performance, and for the most part do it after the ride. I find it very interesting and valuable, looking at trends in heart rate relative to power, cadence relative to power, how wind or rest or temperature affects a ride. it’s interesting and satisfying to observe. while I might discuss a route or particularly interesting segment with somebody, I would not (nor would anyone I know!) go on blast with their power stats or FTP being up a few watts or something.

For me, the service such as Strava is a great social network, where I meet people with whom I later meet on group rides; or, the people who I met on group rides become my Followed/Following contacts. I can look into the ride performance data of groups and individuals and then make a decision whether I and my e-bike are able to match their performance. For instance, I cannot join the NGE group rides as the riders there are stronger than me + my e-bike and their technical riding skill greatly exceeds mine; they also ride distances that greatly exceed the multiple battery range I can provide.

One of my new friends just jumped on a train and travelled to a city that is 200+ km away from Warsaw yesterday. He took the advantage of a strong tailwind to make 226 km (with 467 m of elevation gain) at the average speed of 29.0 km/h. Could I match him? On a 70 km group ride, yes. Not on his "'fore-de-wind sailing trip" though.

 

[PDoz]

Because you cannot ride a Specialized e-bike in the Walk Mode. The crank has to rotate in that mode. Whenever you put your feet on the pedals and the torque sensor detects the torque, the Walk Mode is gone.

Even the average toddler has the skill to ride a balance bike without using pedals .

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Even the average toddler has the skill to ride a balance bike without using pedals .

Is it how you ride a bicycle? I'd love to see a video of you riding in the Walk Mode for a kilometre The throttle allows you carrying your ass for the distance as long as the battery allows.

Besides, throttles are allowed in Europe. The thing is known as the L1e-B, or a moped. You need to wear the helmet, register the thing, install the number plate, insure the moped, and you are only allowed to ride it with traffic. The L1e-B can have a motor up to 4 kW and the speed is limited to 45 km/h. The L1e-B has to be equipped with numerous ride safety features. The most important thing is the L1e-B must be Type Approved, and the Bafang thing cannot be Type Approved, or I have not heard of any Type Approved Bafang L1e-B.

The funniest part is the Europeans (who are the most populous world e-bike community outside China) do not want to buy L1e-Bs or S-Pedelecs...

 

[K PierreR]

Is it how you ride a bicycle? I'd love to see a video of you riding in the Walk Mode for a kilometre The throttle allows you carrying your ass for the distance as long as the battery allows.

Besides, throttles are allowed in Europe. The thing is known as the L1e-B, or a moped. You need to wear the helmet, register the thing, install the number plate, insure the moped, and you are only allowed to ride it with traffic. The L1e-B can have a motor up to 4 kW and the speed is limited to 45 km/h. The L1e-B has to be equipped with numerous ride safety features. The most important thing is the L1e-B must be Type Approved, and the Bafang thing cannot be Type Approved, or I have not heard of any Type Approved Bafang L1e-B.

The funniest part is the Europeans (who are the most populous world e-bike community outside China) do not want to buy L1e-Bs or S-Pedelecs...

I get it Stephan, It's how Europe keeps the old and infirm off the bike paths, safely on the porch and out of the way where they belong. I'm sure that pretty well sums up your bicycling group. In my bicycling group, half would no longer bicycle because they are not sure if they can make the whole route from day to day due to health issues. A throttle is a security blanket for them. Would they be safer? Yes but their quality of life and lifespan would be greatly diminished. Be mindful of how much you want the state to determine your freedoms and future by excluding others. Your only a few short years or one health issue away from hanging the bike up prematurely. You can't use it as a therapy bike between a rocking chair and being able to pedal continuously for an entire route you love.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Is it how you ride a bicycle? I'd love to see a video of you riding in the Walk Mode for a kilometre The throttle allows you carrying your ass for the distance as long as the battery allows.

Besides, throttles are allowed in Europe. The thing is known as the L1e-B, or a moped. You need to wear the helmet, register the thing, install the number plate, insure the moped, and you are only allowed to ride it with traffic. The L1e-B can have a motor up to 4 kW and the speed is limited to 45 km/h. The L1e-B has to be equipped with numerous ride safety features. The most important thing is the L1e-B must be Type Approved, and the Bafang thing cannot be Type Approved, or I have not heard of any Type Approved Bafang L1e-B.

The funniest part is the Europeans (who are the most populous world e-bike community outside China) do not want to buy L1e-Bs or S-Pedelecs...

I'd love to see a video of you and the DHL truck.

 

[PCeBiker]

Even the average toddler has the skill to ride a balance bike without using pedals .

Stefan may not be able to ride a bike without using the pedals?

Every 7 year old knows how to ride a bike no-hands, but Stefan can not.
He claims he could as a child, but he needs to PROVE it.
I'm sure his Strava data has his birth records.

I can ride no-hands with my feet off the pedals.
A little girl taught me how.
(I can't do it while airborne though like PDoz.)

 

[mschwett]

I get it Stephan, It's how Europe keeps the old and infirm off the bike paths, safely on the porch and out of the way where they belong. …

throttles or not, your point is a little odd given that

Overall, only 8.2% of older Americans met the criteria for both aerobic and strength-training activity.

and …

To see how the United States measures up in terms of life expectancy, researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention compared its death rates in 2012 with those of a dozen other countries with similar economies, including the United Kingdom, Japan, Germany and other European countries.

The researchers found that men and women in the United States lived 2.2 fewer years than residents in similar countries.…

it’s pretty hard (impossible?) to argue that the american model of mobility and healthy for the elderly is anything other than inferior compared to comparably wealthy and developed countries. and if you’ve ever been to western europe, you’ll see FAR more cycling and walking than any part of the united states. the lack of e-bikes with throttles has not kept people off bikes in europe - better infrastructure and better rules about safety seems to be far far more important.