Is it safe to freely use the throttle WHILE PEDALING on a mid drive?

[circuitsmith]

Lmao, first reply should have said "YES" and the thread should have probably ended there but..

This thread would have been locked long ago on "Bob the Oil Guy".

 

[PCeBiker]

This thread would have been locked long ago on "Bob the Oil Guy".

I just used the cheapest regular 5W30 🛢 I could find on sale, and changed it every 5000 km.

It was way better than the fancy ass, expensive synthetic stuff that was supposed to last 10,000 miles.
Any oil left in my engine for 16,000 km would wreck the engine.

The piston oil rings would seize.

 

[teskow]

Have you actually tested this or is it something you are theorizing about?
You must have a lot of time to do all those oil changes not to say all the oil filters you use. Do you use the cheapest you can find on sale too?

 

[PCeBiker]

Have you actually tested this or is it something you are theorizing about?
You must have a lot of time to do all those oil changes not to say all the oil filters you use. Do you use the cheapest you can find on sale too?

Actually,...
The Mazda FS-DE engine has a specific design flaw in that the oil drain holes in the pistons are way too small and would clog up with sludge and stop the oil flow.
That, coupled with extremely weak spring tension on the oil rings, would seize the oil rings on the pistons, and the engine would smoke like a MOFO especially at startup.
Some guys burned a quart of oil every couple hundred miles.

Once I learned this, I flushed my engine repeatedly with Seafoam then always added Seafoam to my new oil at every oil change, and changed my oil every 3000 km.
It cost me less than $25 and 20 minutes to do an oil change.

I used the midgrade Fram oil filters for an early model Mazda 626 which had the same specifications, except that it was almost twice as tall with way more filter media.

That piston is from the parts car I bought.
It was burning so much oil, that the PO wrote "CHECK THE OIL" beside the gas cap as a reminder.


I had no reason to tear apart the engine on my parts car. It turned into a HUGE PITA to get a piston out. (It was a rusty turd.)

I just had to see for myself what the pistons looked like.
I have an insatiable desire to know how things work, and how they fail.

 

[m@Robertson]

i think that’s a really silly comparison.

No you're focusing on the wrong thing, which is I'm sure at least partly my own fault for being pissed off at that whole sordid display and doing the stream-of-consciousness thing.

We can bitch about @Stefan Mikes and his treatment of his data but he is not even close to the only one who does it, nor is he the worst example of the behavior. Maybe on here but not in the world in general. This preoccupation with the supposed validation an unnecessary gadget provides to someone's ego, when used in that way, is the province of the person who wants to be seen and held up by others as a rider. Not the person who simply is one. Thats where the equivalency with the shirts lies. It was an instant identifier of who was for real then as this is now.

 

[mschwett]

No you're focusing on the wrong thing, which is I'm sure at least partly my own fault for being pissed off at that whole sordid display and doing the stream-of-consciousness thing.

We can bitch about @Stefan Mikes and his treatment of his data but he is not even close to the only one who does it, nor is he the worst example of the behavior. Maybe on here but not in the world in general. This preoccupation with the supposed validation an unnecessary gadget provides to someone's ego, when used in that way, is the province of the person who wants to be seen and held up by others as a rider. Not the person who simply is one. Thats where the equivalency with the shirts lies. It was an instant identifier of who was for real then as this is now.

i guess we just run in different circles. everyone i know who rides a lot captures data in one way or another. the ones who ride hard or for fitness tend to capture more data, and those who ride to explore or wander capture a little less.

to suggest that simply recording or being interested in data about your own rides makes one less of a rider is silly. however, we are agreed about what it means about someone if they are constantly displaying or crowing about the statistics of their rides, for whatever claimed purpose!

 

[PDoz]

Stefan may not be able to ride a bike without using the pedals?

Every 7 year old knows how to ride a bike no-hands, but Stefan can not.
He claims he could as a child, but he needs to PROVE it.
I'm sure his Strava data has his birth records.

I can ride no-hands with my feet off the pedals.
A little girl taught me how.
(I can't do it while airborne though like PDoz.)

You raise an interesting point and I'd love to hear from any full throttlers with adequate strava points - can you use the throttle to correct a bikes orientation in the air like on a motorbike?

My uneducated guess would be that it's unlikely - the wheel and motors are too light. But perhaps someone can analyze their strata gradient and throttle use data to help the research ?

 

[scrambler]

May be it is time to get off the forum for a while....

 

[linklemming]

So you (or anybody else) cannot prove the throttle e-bikes provide any significant workout. Be ridden by your throttle e-bike then. Or, carry your ass on it.

Exactly what planet are you on Stefan.

I ride my two throttle equipped ebikes going on about two years now and 6k or so. I get a workout every ride according to my garmin GPS computers (average 110-130HR, 150-200watts human power, 1500 altitude gain, 25 miles). This is the whole purpose of my rides (workout). As I recall thats almost double your output which means my workout is twice as significant as yours.

Just because I have a throttle doesnt mean I use it all the time (I cant believe I even had to say that)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Exactly what planet are you on Stefan.

I ride my two throttle equipped ebikes going on about two years now and 6k or so. I get a workout every ride according to my garmin GPS computers (average 110-130HR, 150-200watts human power, 1500 altitude gain, 25 miles). This is the whole purpose of my rides (workout). As I recall thats almost double your output which means my workout is twice as significant as yours.

Just because I have a throttle doesnt mean I use it all the time (I cant believe I even had to say that)

It is only essential how much time you are spending outdoor actively pedalling. So, for how many hours were you pedalling this year? On how many rides have you been in 2023? The number of miles and elevation gain data are less important but could be helpful, too.

One of the thread participants (Matt?) stated the throttle was a safety blanket for the elderly rides. In the United States for sure. Where I live, the safety blanket is called 'a charged e-bike battery'. Let me give an example of my friend Jerzy who rides a traditional bike of year 2000:

2023

• Number of rides: 120
• Time spent actively pedalling: 360 h 30 min
• Distance ridden: 5,841 km (3,630 mi)
• Elevation gain: 11,268 m (37,000 ft)

He started riding his bike in 2013 and has never ridden a bicycle before. When he started, he weighed over 130 kg (286 lbs). Now, he weighs 96 kg (211 lb). Oh, yes, Europeans must be another human race

 

[m@Robertson]

to suggest that simply recording or being interested in data about your own rides makes one less of a rider is silly. however, we are agreed about what it means about someone if they are constantly displaying or crowing about the statistics of their rides, for whatever claimed purpose!

I'm not saying the former. I'm saying the latter. Thats why I'm throwing in qualifiers like

... the supposed validation an unnecessary gadget provides to someone's ego, when used in that way...

I do believe that modern cyclists have become overly preoccupied with data, but thats a personal preference only. I don't consider the behavior unhealthy or a sign of deeper problems until it is wielded like we're seeing here in this thread.

 

[Rexlion]

Let's all pitch in and buy Stefan a Fitbit. Might be just the thing for him. Data, data, data. He'd have a ball posting on the Fitbit forum.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Let's all pitch in and buy Stefan a Fitbit. Might be just the thing for him. Data, data, data. He'd have a ball posting on the Fitbit forum.

I'd rather give the DHL driver the extra $80 bucks!

You want to laugh... a few years ago my sister gave me a Fitbit for my birthday.
I returned it and put the money towards a gelato machine. One of my most prized possession to this day.
That's how much I value exercise data!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Let's all pitch in and buy Stefan a Fitbit. Might be just the thing for him. Data, data, data. He'd have a ball posting on the Fitbit forum.

I do not need it. My e-bikes are providing me with all necessary fitness data.
So for how many miles have you ridden today?

 

[mschwett]

I'm not saying the former. I'm saying the latter. Thats why I'm throwing in qualifiers like

... the supposed validation an unnecessary gadget provides to someone's ego, when used in that way...

I do believe that modern cyclists have become overly preoccupied with data, but thats a personal preference only. I don't consider the behavior unhealthy or a sign of deeper problems until it is wielded like we're seeing here in this thread.

in that case - we are agreed! to clarify, i was responding to your original statement, which referred to "the need for data while cycling."

Regarding this ridiculous fork over the need for data while cycling:

The need for such things... It signals you are in the realm of the dilletante. The poser.

personally, i enjoy a minimalist cockpit, as i shared earlier. nothing but a single device, white on black, no light emitted from the black part, no buttons on the surface. fully customizable to show nothing but a map, nothing but my heart rate in giant numbers, or a dashboard of speed, power, cadence, heart rate, average speed, time, segment times, radar overlay, anything i wish. i often just turn it off and ride, but to be honest i don't find it distracting or detracting from the experience of a beautiful stretch of road when it's on. i personally hate the look of the cockpits with a half dozen wires and screens of poor quality and buttons here and there, but it's definitely a "to each their own" thing. i like to concentrate on the road and the surroundings and allow my peripheral vision to catch the important data when relevant, and simply ignore it when not.

i am so OCD about attachments, cables, and poorly designed widgets that i switched from quad lock to sp connect plus to eliminate the little tab sticking out from behind the phone. you'll notice that i also wrapped the bars top down to avoid the finishing tape, which some say won't last as long but i have had excellent results. i have the same exact cockpit on both my road bikes, electric and acoustic...

 

[K PierreR]

One of the thread participants (Matt?) stated the throttle was a safety blanket for the elderly rides. In the United States for sure. Where I live, the safety blanket is called 'a charged e-bike battery'. Let me give an example of my friend Jerzy who rides a traditional bike of year 2000:

2023

• Number of rides: 120
• Time spent actively pedalling: 360 h 30 min
• Distance ridden: 5,841 km (3,630 mi)
• Elevation gain: 11,268 m (37,000 ft)

He started riding his bike in 2013 and has never ridden a bicycle before. When he started, he weighed over 130 kg (286 lbs). Now, he weighs 96 kg (211 lb). Oh, yes, Europeans must be another human race

Stephan, you still don't get it so let me shoot it down for you. On you side of the pond the safety blanket is called a walker. On my side of the pond the safety blanket is called a throttle on an e bike.
It seems of little use to try to explain to you that there are balance challenged people for whom a throttle is the key to getting them up and balanced on a bike.

 

[PDoz]

Today I walked an enjoyable 2 hours through the local mtb park. The dog loved it - we've had her a month and she has almost grasped the idea of sticking to the trails . Hopefully she will be able to join us on a mtb ride soon .

No idea how much energy I used , but it was a lovely relaxing wander and I got to show the black runs to my wife . It never hurts to have someone familiar with the tracks for if gravity happens.

I had intended to follow up with a lap on the bike, but it's a lovely day so I might get in some gardening instead.

Does strava have a smile per mile rating?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Today I walked an enjoyable 2 hours through the local mtb park.

In the Walk Mode?

 

[tomjasz]

So for how many miles have you ridden today?

How many for you our own Little Lord Fauntleroy?

​

 

[Nite-Rider]

Why the Throttle is Important to My Enjoyment of Cycling
Depending if I'm exercising or just cruising I ride about 90 to 95% without any pedal assist or throttle. After a sprint of 2, 3 or more miles going at least 15 mph, as I get tired, I twist the throttle for the motor to take over for a few seconds while I catch my breath. For this, the throttle is indispensable to me. So why not simply engage pedal assist? Because at that point, PAS is too intrusive and when riding on my GenZe e102 with its puny 250W hub motor and cadence only sensor, it'll push me outside of my current riding speed; if I'm on my EVELO Atlas with the powerful Bafang M600+ mid-motor, then fuggedaboutit...the PAS will make me virtually take off like I have wings. Pedal assist in both cases interferes in my riding too much.
Currently, I'm testing if selecting the 9 PAS modes in the advanced settings of the Atlas would offer a more refined option of PAS to experiment if PAS 1 is more dialed down in the 9 modes than the current 5 levels of PAS.
My GenZe e102 is much simpler as I never even need to engage PAS 1 since when PAS is set to Zero, the throttle works beautifully, very, very refined, slowly as I need just to keep my current speed for a few feet. Closing in at 17,000 miles on my odometer, with its very small Li-Ion battery (year-5 old) with well over 1,200 charge cycles, I can go for some 50-60 miles before getting low on juice.
The Atlas is more complicated. If you leave it on PAS 0 (zero) the throttle won't work, doesn't engage; you have to leave on PAS 1. The moment I start pedaling, as mentioned before, the Atlas takes off very quickly so I immediately activate the throttle which will cut off the pedal assist (you feel it instantly) and conformably dial back pedal assist to only 40, 50, 60 watts as opposed to the 140+ watts. My Atlas is new and with over 110 miles I haven't recharged it's huge battery a single time yet, still have 44%. Mostly riding without assist, of course.