Is it safe to freely use the throttle WHILE PEDALING on a mid drive?

[gladiataar]

That's total nonsense...... when on a mid or on a hub drive powered bike. I own and ride both types and use the throttle while pedaling on occasion for a quick temporary burst of extra power not worth the trouble of shifting or increasing PAS levels.....

Ok, thanks, that's what I was hoping to hear. I thought the whole point of having a throttle was for a "quick temporary boost". Just didn't know whether or not I'd be damaging or prematurely wearing out my mid drive motor if I was pedaling at the same time. Like you said, saves me having to change PAS level when all I need is a boost for like 3-5 seconds.

Just curious, does the throttle electronically override the PAS setting temporarily while being pressed?

 

[PatriciaK]

Been on a ride today, Jeremy? View attachment 159626
Silly me, I could have done it on a throttle

Stefan - the horse is dead already - put the stick down.

 

[m@Robertson]

Some people like to preach. Tune it out.

 

[m@Robertson]

Just curious, does the throttle electronically override the PAS setting temporarily while being pressed?

Sort of. On a Bafang mid drive, lets say you are on PAS level 3, pedaling on a consistent uphill slope and steadily pedaling at 60 rpms. That yields motor assist of 300 w (I am making the numbers up for the sake of the example). Lets say you have a throttle setup where it can deliver as little as 50w and as much as ... one million watts.

If you are riding up the hill and want to just gently, momentarily give yourself an additional boost, you can gently depress the throttle a tad and that 50w input will amount to nothing since it is less than the 300 you are already putting out. You slowly increase your press of the throttle and get it to where it would be to 100, 150, 250... nothing until you cross 300w. Now you are starting to feel some benefit from the throttle. When you get past that steep nasty part of the hill, you can lighten your throttle pressure until you dip below the pedal assist delivery level and you keep pedaling away, still at your previous PAS setting.

Someone asked what the point was of using throttle and PAS: Thats a real world example I use myself. I have hills that go shallow, steep, shallow again and a gentle bit of throttle giving a slight increase in assist is the cleanest, easiest way of evening out my pedal effort over that stretch of terrain.

 

[juggernaut]

If you pedal while using the throttle, are you actually accomplishing anything? Is that what those people are doing when I see them turning their cranks with zero effort while traveling at 20 mph?

Faster acceleration and higher speeds going up hills. Frey advised me using the throttle contributes 1500 to 1800 watts so it does help .

To be honest, I have very rarely use it - more so out of curiosity at higher speeds, and I have never used it from standstill.

I have two e-bikes. One with and one without a throttle. It wouldn’t bother me if the one with it didn’t have a throttle as I much prefer to pedal anyway.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Some people like to preach. Tune it out.

A few seem unable to resist, no matter what the topic or how little they actually know about it.

EBR's a happy place for me, as befits a forum devoted to the electric version of the greatest joy machine ever invented — the bicycle. Once a member proves chronically toxic, I use the "ignore member" function to get them out of my sight. Poof, happy place once more!

Life's too short, no matter what else these cowardly bullies have to offer.

 

[juggernaut]

Been on a ride today, Jeremy? View attachment 159626
Silly me, I could have done it on a throttle

You also could have done it on an acoustic bike……i suspect perhaps not .

 

[AHicks]

Just curious, does the throttle electronically override the PAS setting temporarily while being pressed?

On MOST newer bikes, the throttle is totally independent of the PAS system. For example, you can use the throttle from a stop. That would NOT be a possibility if the PAS were in play/pedals needed to be turning prior to being able for the throttle to work.

There was a brief time a couple years ago where some brainiac decided to set bike controller logic up that way as a "safety feature". It caused such an uproar they decided maybe that wasn't such a good plan and quickly abandoned the idea....

 

[AHicks]

If you pedal while using the throttle, are you actually accomplishing anything? Is that what those people are doing when I see them turning their cranks with zero effort while traveling at 20 mph?

If you had ever ridden a bike with a throttle, you'd have the answer to this question. Best to keep an open mind here until you have tried one.....

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You also could have done it on an acoustic bike……i suspect perhaps not .

Have you? Today?
Did you pedal for 4 hours and 51 minutes today? I did.

I was even following a young and strong roadie for 9.42 km

E-Bike Segment.

 

[Dorkyman]

Wow, seems to be sensitive subject.

On our Lectric 2.0st bikes I've disabled PAS entirely, as it seemed to be quirky to me when turning at slow speeds. So what we ride are essentially heavy-ish generic 7-speed bicycles with a throttle-controlled 1hp motor, as on a low-powered scooter. Yes, I pedal, so I'm adding a fraction of a horsepower to the effort. The twist throttle on the Lectrics is great but one needs to understand the throttle position controls the set speed, not motor output per se.

Which also means I can set "cruise control" to a certain speed and then not have to keep holding the twist throttle.

And, by the way, back in the days of my youth I rode many thousands of miles on a 10-speed, so I understand the purity of an analog bike.

 

[Rome]

I personally don't care if he @Stefan Mikes pedals in his sleep. It's entertaining to read his posts boasting how many miles he ride. Keep riding and keep posting. Take us to Hump Two Lips.
Go to Warsaw again on the big river with alluvial buid up show us if it has gotten bigger or wash out.
You getting boring Stefan ?
Is safe to pretend that you are pedaling @30+mph with very little effort under throttle. It feels almost like shadow boxing. You all know what I mean? Punching the air. You are still getting exercised.

 

[PDoz]

My specialized has a throttle. It's not as sophisticated as the one on a bafang - it's just an on / off switch on the left handlebar that crawls the bike along at walking speed if I'm too lazy to push the bike. No variable power capability like the high tech bafang , instead my specialized relies on using different power assistance modes +/- a torque sensor to stroke my ego and make me feel powerful .

There are times it'd be nice to have a throttle - mostly when I'm stuck in a rut . Being stuck in a rut is a very specialized experience, I hope the bafang riders don't judge us

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My specialized has a throttle. It's not as sophisticated as the one on a bafang - it's just an on / off switch on the left handlebar that crawls the bike along at walking speed if I'm too lazy to push the bike. No variable power capability like the high tech bafang , instead my specialized relies on using different power assistance modes +/- a torque sensor to stroke my ego and make me feel powerful .

There are times it'd be nice to have a throttle - mostly when I'm stuck in a rut . Being stuck in a rut is a very specialized experience, I hope the bafang riders don't judge us

You cannot ride the Levo in the Walk mode. Making the fundamental difference.

You also can dismount your ebike at any time.

 

[PDoz]

You cannot ride the Levo in the Walk mode. Making the fundamental difference.

Is that just another one of your rules? I wasn't aware specialized had sensors that stop walk mode working when I'm on the bike.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Is that just another one of your rules? I wasn't aware specialized had sensors that stop walk mode working when I'm on the bike.

Current models have highly sensitive smell sensors. They track butts, like dogs. If you don't opt out, they report conditions down there to a corporate database through the internet connection. Then you get ads on the bike display, like "Smell fresh as a daisy with an Acme bidet!"

We're very lucky to live in this time.
;^}

 

[Prairie Dog]

Have you? Today?
Did you pedal for 4 hours and 51 minutes today? I did.
View attachment 159665

I was even following a young and strong roadie for 9.42 km
View attachment 159666
E-Bike Segment.

I'm actually not surprised that you were able to follow behind that roadie given he was riding an analog bike. What was your MO? Why not attempt to find an e-bike only sanctioned event that would provide a more level playing field? I don’t think that I would feel at ease knowing everyone around me was riding analog and I was the only one with a powered ride. Even better would be to organize a local event via social media that would better represent the e-bike community instead of flogging metrics that only hold special meaning to you. Just my thoughts FWIW.

 

[PCeBiker]

I actually wanted to get a motorcycle because off-road vehicles are now legal to ride on the road if you stay below 30 kph in town and 50 kph outside of town, but you still need a license and insurance, so I got my ebike instead.

I pretty much have an electric motorcycle, but if I stay below 32kph, it counts as a bicycle.
I just have to wear a helmet which is no problem because I'm sure to be bouncing off my head.

I got a DOT approved, muti-impact ABS helmut because I don't want to buy a new helmet every time I "use" it or it gets old.
I don't care if it's heavier.


When I'm out riding, I actually prefer going slow.
At 32 kph it's colder, the wind noise is irritating, my eyes are watering, and the ride isn't as comfortable.
And when I look down at the gravel road, I can tell that it would hurt to wipe out.

I could slip off the road and end up in the drainage ditch.
With street tires with no tread, loose gravel, and a strong enough cross wind, I could be pushed off the road.
(plus I like to ride no-hands while smoking a cigarette. )

It doesn't look like much, but that drainage ditch is at least 15 feet deep.


At ~20 kph, I know that I can wipe out with less injury. I wiped out my skateboard all the time at that speed.
Tuck & Roll !!

I had more fun going through a forest trail as slow as possible without putting my foot down. I was going 3 kph, and with my new controller I can add just a smidgen of power without all that lurching and time delay.

Then I went to a parking lot and hit the cruise control at 10kph and rode around no hands, going off curbs and over speed bumps, and doing figure 8's, getting the hang and feel of my ride.

I Had Fun !!
I Have Fun almost every day.

 

[PCeBiker]

You cannot ride the Levo in the Walk mode. Making the fundamental difference.

You also can dismount your ebike at any time.

I can ride my e-bike in Walk mode at 6 kph, but I have to hold the down button on.

I can also ride my 100 pound e-bike in throttle gear 1 with the throttle set to less than 3 kph.

I can go slower using about 50 watts, but it's hard to not fall over at less than 3 kph especially on a forest trail.

3 kph in the rough is good practice.
It helps me get a feel for my e-bike.

I can easily dismount my e-bike and walk beside it at 3 kph without falling over.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I wasn't aware specialized had sensors that stop walk mode working when I'm on the bike.

It is the torque sensor. With your feet on the pedals, the systems will cut the Walk Mode off whenever any torque is detected at the crank. You could perhaps ride in the Walk Mode if your feet were hanging in the air. Try it. I have. No fun.

I'm actually not surprised that you were able to follow behind that roadie given he was riding an analog bike.

The guy rode at 40-45 km/h and he could maintain the speed as long as I was following him (almost a quarter). Have you tried riding in a group of roadies on an e-bike? I have. (And I did not use any throttle).

Why not attempt to find an e-bike only sanctioned event that would provide a more level playing field?

You mean, the Giro-E? Where only certified 25 km/h 250 W peak power e-bikes are allowed, and you have to ride with your team on the Giro d'Italia route? No, thank you. Have you taken a part in a 250 km gravel ultramarathon? I have. Give it a try.

I can ride my e-bike in Walk mode at 6 kph, but I have to hold the down button on.

Yours is an e-motorcycle, and it might have the pedals easily replaced with foot-pegs.