Is Any E-Bike With A Throttle A Type 2 E-Bike?
- Thread starter Jim1348
- Start date
LimboJim
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
You're correct, only Class 2 have throttles but the motors a governed at @20mph and limited to 750W max (same as Class 1s with no throttles).
A throttled ebike that can go up to 28 mph or more or has a 750W+ motor is "Class 4," which is technically a scooter, moped or other type of motorbike and often needs to be registered and insured to be road-legal.
This might vary a bit in certain US states so it's best to check with your motor vehicle department, insrance company, etc. No-throttle ebikes that can be motor-assisted past 28mph are also Class 4.
FYI insurance companies can deny liability and/or property claims if your mishap occurred on an "ilegal" hi-power and/or high speed ebike.
A throttled ebike that can go up to 28 mph or more or has a 750W+ motor is "Class 4," which is technically a scooter, moped or other type of motorbike and often needs to be registered and insured to be road-legal.
This might vary a bit in certain US states so it's best to check with your motor vehicle department, insrance company, etc. No-throttle ebikes that can be motor-assisted past 28mph are also Class 4.
FYI insurance companies can deny liability and/or property claims if your mishap occurred on an "ilegal" hi-power and/or high speed ebike.
Jeremy McCreary
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
Not all manufacturers honor the 3-class system — certainly not in the SoCal market. Lots of ebikes with throttles here that would otherwise have been legal class 3s.
These bikes are clearly outside the class system — as are the Sur-rons and high-powered Super73s among many others.
Yes, Class 1 and Class 3 bikes can't have throttles by law, but the reality on the ground is that no one here seems to care about the class system.
gromike
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- City of Dreams
Yep, as far as ebikes, there's no enforcement at all where I'm at (Western Washington).
Last edited:
mrgold35
Well-Known Member
I have the option on my class 2 Radrover (4" fat tire, throttle, 750w rear hub) to set the motor cut off up to 24-25 mph (PAS and throttle work at that speed). The Radrover's 7 gears for pedaling does max out at 20-22 mph (ghost pedaling or throttle only at speed +22 mph). My class 3 Himiway Cobra Pro 1000w mid-drive with 10 speeds has a throttle up to 20 mph and PAS to 28-31 mph. I have the option to reduce the motor cut off to class II 20 mph range.
Not sure how you can tell Classes of ebikes if you ride exactly like pedal bikes unless local laws makes you inspect, register, label, and renew certifications of an ebike like a motor vehicle to enforce Class restrictions?
Not sure how you can tell Classes of ebikes if you ride exactly like pedal bikes unless local laws makes you inspect, register, label, and renew certifications of an ebike like a motor vehicle to enforce Class restrictions?
6zfshdb
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Northeast Pennsylvania
The joke is, I ride my class 2 throttled bike in a safer, less obtrusive manner than many class 1 and class 3 bikes I see. The class system is meaningless to the general public, and many law enforcement agencies as well. Unfortunately, any idiot can make an a$$ out of themselves on ANY class bike.
harryS
Well-Known Member
Some localities have resolved that "Klass 3 mit gaspedal" shenanigans by making all throttles verboten. In Illinois, the three classes are clearly defined. Only Class 2 is allowed a throttle,
Was almost 100F yesterday so I rode my bafang middrive conversion so I wouldn't have to sweat. Now there's a throttle's throttle. They should be made illegal so only us pioneers can have them,
Was almost 100F yesterday so I rode my bafang middrive conversion so I wouldn't have to sweat. Now there's a throttle's throttle. They should be made illegal so only us pioneers can have them,
PCeBiker
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
I just stay out of the way and give the right away to everyone.
If I'm approaching a stop sign with cars approaching, I'll slow down or even pull off the road and wait for traffic to clear.
I was feeling a little rebellious once and passed an oncoming farm tractor, standing on my pedals with my hands in the air waving at him.
He had a big smile ☺ on his face.
I spend 90% of my time on roads like this with no one around except the occasional farm vehicle.
Last edited:
Surrey Pete
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
Not sure if that's quite true. Don't think class 3 bikes are even legal in Canada and there are restrictions on the other 2 classes. Whether those are enforced is another topic entirely :
PCeBiker
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
Yeah, they're not.
We aren't allowed to go over 32 kph in Canada, but throttles are legal.
Technically, throttles in Canada aren't supposed to be active when you're not pedaling, but nobody cares about that anymore because of ghost pedaling.
I've passed numerous Policeman while not pedaling and it's fine, as long as I'm not speeding and I'm wearing my helmet.
Last edited:
LimboJim
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Changes are coming in the USA... (Click to see.)
The 3-Class ebike definition started in Cali in October 2015, and now they're clarifying things and planning to enforce more.
The rest of the states will follow soon enough, just like they did the original law.
The 3-Class ebike definition started in Cali in October 2015, and now they're clarifying things and planning to enforce more.
The rest of the states will follow soon enough, just like they did the original law.
PsychoBilly
Member
- Region
- USA
It's unlikely LE is gonna mess with you provided you're using common sense when riding, your bike has pedals, and you keep the speed at 28mph or less.
JRA
Well-Known Member
More Gov't throwing the baby out with the bathwater logic. This statement from PFB says what the problem really is:
PeopleForBikes, which has worked on behalf of the industry in the writing and amending of the bill, opposed altering the class definition. The group said the legislation could help the industry by addressing what it calls out-of-class electric vehicles that can exceed 20 mph solely on motor power. Another new provision specifically bans the advertising, sale, or offer for sale of a vehicle that can exceed 20 mph on motor power alone as an electric bicycle.
The "Scrambler" and "SurRon" style two wheelers being advertised as eBikes by both manufacturers and the media are the real issue. There are long standing categories and existing Federal regulations such as MoPed and Motorcycle (no pedals) that have been in place for a long time. However the big difference is whether the CPSC or the DOT becomes the regulatory agency in charge of the manufacturing/component standards. The reason these out of class bikes currently try to fit into the eBike category regulated by the CPSC, is that the DOT regs regarding MoPeds and Motos involve more stringent requirements pertaining to things like automatic transmissions, tires, rims, lighting etc. that are deemed necessary for vehicles that go 28mph and are primarily for use on public thoroughfares. The cost to meet these regs as you might suspect would result in higher cost to consumers which would result in fewer sales not to mention mandatory registration and insurance fees. As it stands 99% of the out of class bikes on the market today are relatively cheap to purchase, thus their popularity, as well as cheap to produce due to their cheap components.
I don't see that SB 1271 will help to alleviate the problem of mostly young people roaring around on these out of class bikes, and arugably the most visisble, even if it does pass it will only be applicable to one state and have little effect on the real problem which is nationwide to begin with, and apparently overseas to some extent. Obviously the current Class laws are not working as projected other than excluding those of us who are long time cyclists that are responsible enough to handle the fact that our bikes have a throttle and can go over 20mph as Psycho above suggests. However if the Class laws didn't make such a big deal out of separating out throttles yet allowing them, as per the original letter of the law,
Where it states that Type 2 is not pedal operated otherwise all other paramater are the same and left the door wide open for the out of class models I feel? I know that there was much discussion on the part of the Pedego's Don DiConstanzo to not separate throttles into a different class at the time but the more EU focused ACCELL group PFB guy Larry Pizzi won out. Mainly because of the EU guidlines that didn't allow for throttles although they were, and still are, not an issue under US Federal eBike regulations.
If for instance they had said that a eBikes had throttle and pedal operated PAS and a controller that only allowed it to operate up to say 10mph, which is entirely possible and effectively what walk assist is, then perhaps we'd be having a different discussion today and the unwarranted hatred of throttles, when used responsibly, by those that are so deep into the EU/Class reguations, yet never had a chance to see how harmless they are, yet useful in certain situations too.
PeopleForBikes, which has worked on behalf of the industry in the writing and amending of the bill, opposed altering the class definition. The group said the legislation could help the industry by addressing what it calls out-of-class electric vehicles that can exceed 20 mph solely on motor power. Another new provision specifically bans the advertising, sale, or offer for sale of a vehicle that can exceed 20 mph on motor power alone as an electric bicycle.
The "Scrambler" and "SurRon" style two wheelers being advertised as eBikes by both manufacturers and the media are the real issue. There are long standing categories and existing Federal regulations such as MoPed and Motorcycle (no pedals) that have been in place for a long time. However the big difference is whether the CPSC or the DOT becomes the regulatory agency in charge of the manufacturing/component standards. The reason these out of class bikes currently try to fit into the eBike category regulated by the CPSC, is that the DOT regs regarding MoPeds and Motos involve more stringent requirements pertaining to things like automatic transmissions, tires, rims, lighting etc. that are deemed necessary for vehicles that go 28mph and are primarily for use on public thoroughfares. The cost to meet these regs as you might suspect would result in higher cost to consumers which would result in fewer sales not to mention mandatory registration and insurance fees. As it stands 99% of the out of class bikes on the market today are relatively cheap to purchase, thus their popularity, as well as cheap to produce due to their cheap components.
I don't see that SB 1271 will help to alleviate the problem of mostly young people roaring around on these out of class bikes, and arugably the most visisble, even if it does pass it will only be applicable to one state and have little effect on the real problem which is nationwide to begin with, and apparently overseas to some extent. Obviously the current Class laws are not working as projected other than excluding those of us who are long time cyclists that are responsible enough to handle the fact that our bikes have a throttle and can go over 20mph as Psycho above suggests. However if the Class laws didn't make such a big deal out of separating out throttles yet allowing them, as per the original letter of the law,
Where it states that Type 2 is not pedal operated otherwise all other paramater are the same and left the door wide open for the out of class models I feel? I know that there was much discussion on the part of the Pedego's Don DiConstanzo to not separate throttles into a different class at the time but the more EU focused ACCELL group PFB guy Larry Pizzi won out. Mainly because of the EU guidlines that didn't allow for throttles although they were, and still are, not an issue under US Federal eBike regulations.
If for instance they had said that a eBikes had throttle and pedal operated PAS and a controller that only allowed it to operate up to say 10mph, which is entirely possible and effectively what walk assist is, then perhaps we'd be having a different discussion today and the unwarranted hatred of throttles, when used responsibly, by those that are so deep into the EU/Class reguations, yet never had a chance to see how harmless they are, yet useful in certain situations too.
m@Robertson
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
SB 1271 will immediately render ALL ebikes manufactured to date under the current USA standards as unlawful and 'not electric bicycles'. Read the text of the law not the news articles. It contains a provision that puts a hard limit of 750w of output on all ebikes. 750w total period. No 'average output'. No differentiation between peak and continuous. 750w max, period. Not even the EU does that. For a 48v-powered bike to be legal under 1271, it would have to have a 13 amp controller.
48v battery fully charged is 54.6v.
54.6v x 13a = 710 watts. Legal ebike
54.6v x 14a = 764 watts. Not a legal ebike.
Anyone who knows anything about manufactured retail ebikes knows that pretty much every one of them has more power than this law allows.
Limit ebikes sold to 13a and you will see sales collapse, and Sacramento scramble to fix the problem they caused by not thinking this bill thru. Classic example of a law being written by people who have no idea of the subject at hand.
48v battery fully charged is 54.6v.
54.6v x 13a = 710 watts. Legal ebike
54.6v x 14a = 764 watts. Not a legal ebike.
Anyone who knows anything about manufactured retail ebikes knows that pretty much every one of them has more power than this law allows.
Limit ebikes sold to 13a and you will see sales collapse, and Sacramento scramble to fix the problem they caused by not thinking this bill thru. Classic example of a law being written by people who have no idea of the subject at hand.
PsychoBilly
Member
- Region
- USA
That's the politics in California for you.
harryS
Well-Known Member
A new law in politically conservative Utah that redefines "electric assist bicycles".
www.peopleforbikes.org
New Utah Bill Defines Multiple-Mode and Out-of-Class Electric Bicycles | PeopleForBikes
On May 1, 2024, Utah State Bill HB 85 went into effect after being signed into law on March 21, making Utah the first state to proactively address issues posed by certain electric vehicles. The bill includes a definition of multiple-mode electric bicycles and also more clearly defines...
www.peopleforbikes.org
PsychoBilly
Member
- Region
- USA
A new law in politically conservative Utah that redefines "electric assist bicycles".
New Utah Bill Defines Multiple-Mode and Out-of-Class Electric Bicycles | PeopleForBikes
On May 1, 2024, Utah State Bill HB 85 went into effect after being signed into law on March 21, making Utah the first state to proactively address issues posed by certain electric vehicles. The bill includes a definition of multiple-mode electric bicycles and also more clearly defines...
Not an issue for Monday Motorbikes.
JRA
Well-Known Member
It certainly is for this model? As well as a few of the others I saw on their site.
PIEZO
The PIEZO is Monday's most powerful and our quietest eBike - full throttle at < 70 dB. Reduce your carbon footprint and your acoustic signature. PIEZO was designed as the ultimate urban commuter with a 2kW motor, 72V power systems, two battery capacities and 70+ miles of range. PIEZO features...
mondaymotorbikes.com
The Utah law seems to represent what PFB was lobbying for in CA. but they didn't bite. Thanks for the fine print explanation m@ because that definitely puts a different light on the situation. I certainly hope that Newsom doesn't pass it for your sake, as well as other, mostly, law abiding eBikers. Could cause a real mess if the PoPo actually are willing to enforce it.
PsychoBilly
Member
- Region
- USA
Indiana has the three class system. My E-Bike is the Anza 750S. It's a Class-3 E-Bike. I'm legal under Indiana E-Bike rules. I see Class-3 E-Bikes being lumped in with 49cc mopeds, and scooters in the future. That would mean a Class-B endorsement on a state issued ID if you don't have a license, and plate since there's no VIN.It certainly is for this model? As well as a few of the others I saw on their site.
PIEZO
The PIEZO is Monday's most powerful and our quietest eBike - full throttle at < 70 dB. Reduce your carbon footprint and your acoustic signature. PIEZO was designed as the ultimate urban commuter with a 2kW motor, 72V power systems, two battery capacities and 70+ miles of range. PIEZO features...
The Utah law seems to represent what PFB was lobbying for in CA. but they didn't bite. Thanks for the fine print explanation m@ because that definitely puts a different light on the situation. I certainly hope that Newsom doesn't pass it for your sake, as well as other, mostly, law abiding eBikers. Could cause a real mess if the PoPo actually are willing to enforce it.
m@Robertson
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
It would literally re-class almost every ebike in the state 'not an ebike' so I expect a veto. And if not, with literally millions of lawfully purchased ebikes now suddenly no longer legal, I expect swift consequences to legislators, not consumers.It certainly is for this model? As well as a few of the others I saw on their site.
PIEZO
The PIEZO is Monday's most powerful and our quietest eBike - full throttle at < 70 dB. Reduce your carbon footprint and your acoustic signature. PIEZO was designed as the ultimate urban commuter with a 2kW motor, 72V power systems, two battery capacities and 70+ miles of range. PIEZO features...
The Utah law seems to represent what PFB was lobbying for in CA. but they didn't bite. Thanks for the fine print explanation m@ because that definitely puts a different light on the situation. I certainly hope that Newsom doesn't pass it for your sake, as well as other, mostly, law abiding eBikers. Could cause a real mess if the PoPo actually are willing to enforce it.
Similar threads
