Installed Corn Head Grease in my new Luna Z1 Bafang Ultra Mag

tomjasz said:
You’d think as sloppy as Bafang sometimes seems to be, especially with adequate grease, that would be and issue. But our repair shop and my 8 motors never saw a burr issue. I’m thinking I read an obscure post once but if so it’s quite rare IME.
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Same here. One thing I have heard is that far more damage is done by well-meaning, mechanically inclined individuals who lack specific experience with the BBSHD. They open up the motor and screw around with it when its not necessary. The thing has a reputation for just working and you should leave it alone and let it do that. 3-5000 miles in... have at it and re-grease the thing.

Some things I have noticed with the two motors I just acquired: First, the gaskets are now paper. No longer rubber. Glad I still have some rubber replacements socked away. Loss of gasket crush due to overtightening is one more reason to always use a torque wrench. Second, on one of my two motors (the one that came from Cali Ebike) the inner race on the thrust bearing was nonexistent. And it wasn't that someone opted not to install it. The inner flange was now grooved as a bearing race. Which means if you wear that flange down over time, you can no longer replace with a $15 replacement that is a sandwicjh of inner race, bearing and outer race. You also can't shim it out if it happens to wiggle a little. The second motor that came from Luna had the 3-piece bearing. I don't think either seller had any control over this ... typical Bafang manufacturing BS.
 
Lack of grease and noise was disappointing but the worst with the M600 is the external bearings getting gritty and failing. Would love to find a high quality bearing set to replace and skills on the right bearing puller/mounter technique.

m@Robertson: Have seen crush on my gaskets. Haven't seen a spec on the cover bolt torque. If you have recommendations or good source to find the info, would appreciate it. Understand if you only have Ultra/BBSHD.
 
mmcarm said:
m@Robertson: Have seen crush on my gaskets. Haven't seen a spec on the cover bolt torque. If you have recommendations or good source to find the info, would appreciate it. Understand if you only have Ultra/BBSHD.
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Sorry unfortunately I don't. I've stayed away from the M600. What I would do as an alternative is look at more generic bolt torque specifications. There are metric bolt torque max values that vary by material used. SOMETHING is always better than nothing even if we don't have a manufacturer's spec. At least it will give you an upper limit. M6 bolts have a pretty low tolerance for torque. Way less than any of us would use if left to ourselves.

Metric Bolts - Tightening Torques

Recommended thightening torque metric bolts.
www.engineeringtoolbox.com www.engineeringtoolbox.com

Note the spec says 'lightly oiled threads'. Just say no to thread lockers/loctite.
 
Thanks for the general pointer on fastener torque based on Msize. Like the weight savings in the M600 but maybe they used a weaker bearing spec for the lower power vs Ultra and it's not holding up.
 
Tom@WashDC said:
My Luna Z1 with Bafang Ultra Mag arrived the 2nd week of June, I have about 600 miles on it. I was surprised at the noise level of the Ultra when compared to my Luna BBSHD. I Saw some YouTube videos about the benefits of using Corn Head Grease and figured I would give it a try. When I opened the motor there was really no grease on the gears (see pic). The small amount of grease from the factory was stuck to the sides of the inner casing. The gears had essentially no grease. Corn Head Grease is supposed to liquify or soften and circulate through the gears, at least that's the theory. Put everything back together and took the Z1 out for a spin. Tonight the motor is about 50% quieter than before. We'll see what happens over time.

View attachment 129039
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Synthetic grease gives better performance in extreme temperatures and extended life, also delivers better performance and protection for extended periods of time when compared to mineral-based grease. Might be why Wattwagons ebikes says, they don't use CH grease cause it will not hold up.
 
Update from original post #1
2,000+ miles later, I opened the motor to check the grease from July 22' and was pleased. Corn Head grease everywhere. Added a few more tablespoons and closed her up.
IMG-5122.jpg
 
Tom@WashDC said:
Update from original post #1
2,000+ miles later, I opened the motor to check the grease from July 22' and was pleased. Corn Head grease everywhere. Added a few more tablespoons and closed her up.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update. Can you tell me why did you put grease between the red lines in the bottom photo, or is that just spill-over?
IMG-5122.jpg

Plus, the bearing walls shouldn't have grease on them, right? That would only make them harder to reseat in the cover. Unless I'm missing something. Ideally, don't we just need grease on the gear teeth themselves - or is the grease going to fly off at speed and get everywhere anyway?
I'm debating whether I want to regrease my Ultras sometime this season or just after. One is pretty noisy.
 
Not sure if you have split the cases on an Ultra but from the factory the ones I have done have less than a teaspoon of white lithium grease in there. For me that seems pretty skimpy and taking it out and adding CH grease made a big noise reduction. Would other types of grease work as well? I'm not sure but for intended use the CH grease is fit for purpose as explained here:


I use a bit less than Tom, probably like 3 tsp's, and find it sufficient. As seen above when the gearbox is in use the grease liquifies and distributes itself and when not in use returns to a grease like state which is what you are seeing in the pic above. I don't think that it being on the outer bearing surface has any negative effect at least from having inspected after use it seems like it gets everywhere it needs to be in there eventually with no ill effect. Just make sure none gets into the controller area which is why I didn't pack it full to begin with.
 
smorgasbord said:
Thanks for the update. Can you tell me why did you put grease between the red lines in the bottom photo, or is that just spill-over?
View attachment 152325
Plus, the bearing walls shouldn't have grease on them, right? That would only make them harder to reseat in the cover. Unless I'm missing something. Ideally, don't we just need grease on the gear teeth themselves - or is the grease going to fly off at speed and get everywhere anyway?
I'm debating whether I want to regrease my Ultras sometime this season or just after. One is pretty noisy.
Click to expand...

I probably put more grease than is necessary in there in the first place. Yes it flies everywhere. JRA's explanation above seems true. Corn Head grease is supposed to change states and get more liquid and then solidify, then get soft again, so it doesn't just fly of f and stick to the walls. It did seem to be everywhere, and looks a bit messy! All I can say is that since I used Corn Head grease it has reduced the noise in my Ultra Mag by 70% since I started riding it. So I slathered a few tablespoons more and closed it up. I'll open it again in about 1,000 miles and see what's up.
 
Tom@WashDC said:
I probably put more grease than is necessary in there in the first place. Yes it flies everywhere. JRA's explanation above seems true. Corn Head grease is supposed to change states and get more liquid and then solidify, then get soft again, so it doesn't just fly of f and stick to the walls. It did seem to be everywhere, and looks a bit messy! All I can say is that since I used Corn Head grease it has reduced the noise in my Ultra Mag by 70% since I started riding it. So I slathered a few tablespoons more and closed it up. I'll open it again in about 1,000 miles and see what's up.
Click to expand...
I'm a broken record at this point but thank you for following up and showing us pics Tom.
 
Yonkk said:
Synthetic grease gives better performance in extreme temperatures and extended life, also delivers better performance and protection for extended periods of time when compared to mineral-based grease. Might be why Wattwagons ebikes says, they don't use CH grease cause it will not hold up.
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Indeed. Esters are way better, and ptfe for thickener.
People won't listen unless you have a nice splashy ad and big cover.
Corn Head is for combines. We w/ Ultras have small, high speed gears.
All the facts are sitting on our noses like a bird taking a dump - and still being ignored.
Magnaplate and ptfe are by far the best gear lube short of 'immersion'.
Typical PRC shortsighted design. The entire gear-train should be immersed - w/ seals.
Best alternative is bullet-proof coating - not grease - with molecular level imbedded solids.
 
Rome said:
$50 buck for this red grease vs $10 for corn head. I'm almost 5K miles on my Bafang M620 with red grease.
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Good choice. Synthetic (Ester) w/ Lithium emulsifier (thickener).
For high pressure, fast spinning parts - like Cogs. 'Clingy' too.
Which SHC? Part no. Please.
I'll crack my Ultra's case in Nov/ Dec - probably 700ish miles.

Thanks Rome !!!
 
Rome said:
$50 buck for this red grease vs $10 for corn head. I'm almost 5K miles on my Bafang M620 with red grease.
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Did the seller put some on your a$$... cause you got f€©<'ed! 🤣🤣
I paid $15 and that's what I intend to use with my soon to be Ultra. Not because I know it's better.. but I have it in hand and I'm a cheap SOB! 🙃
But seriously, I consulted Mobil customer service and confirmed that it's applicable and recommended for this use.
I've been using it on my BBS02B since 2020
 
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mmcarm said:
Lack of grease and noise was disappointing but the worst with the M600 is the external bearings getting gritty and failing. Would love to find a high quality bearing set to replace and skills on the right bearing puller/mounter technique.

m@Robertson: Have seen crush on my gaskets. Haven't seen a spec on the cover bolt torque. If you have recommendations or good source to find the info, would appreciate it. Understand if you only have Ultra/BBSHD.
Click to expand...
(See here: page 8 - 9 of Bafang G510 manual) Left side, three M8 lock nuts/ washers/ screw stem, torque is 35N.m.
For three M4*8 drive unit cover bolts into the frame adapter, torque is: 1.5 N.m.
Bearing should have a ref no., or can be measured when removed. I assure you those are off-the-shelf bearings.
For highest quality try Schatz Bearing Corporation. USA made.
I've had Timkin's (made in India, who is doing business with😡 Russia, etc.) defective, new out of the box.
Harbor Freight has a decent set of pullers for $60. I use a mallet and wooden dowel to install.
Clean (electronic contact cleaner) everything first and take lots of photos of bearings- showing depth when seated. Installing, must be even at the start. Tap it into place to the proper depth.
Hey, my G510 isn't apart so I can't say what's in there. Sometimes there's a lip that the bearing rests on - not bottomed out in the housing. So you need to be (clean and) in there to see and document for reassembly reference.
When disassembled (and recleaned spotless) you can see the lip.
You'll know when it's seated by the feel of the hammer blow. Metal against a metal backing is distinct.
Any grease with mineral oil - or any petroleum hydrocarbons - will damage rubber and many other synthetics/ polymers/ esters.
Perhaps Bafang's seemingly skimpy use of lube was correct, but it's just crappy lube?
That motor is Warranted for 30 months after leaving the factor and I cannot locate a Bafang maintenance schedule that lists lubing the gears. It's as though that's an afterthought.
 
Rome said:
$50 buck for this red grease vs $10 for corn head. I'm almost 5K miles on my Bafang M620 with red grease.
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It's about $30 w/ tax on the mainland.
If you live in Ohio it's all over the ground. Locals just pop out from under their rocks and scoop it up. There's so much BS the flowers bloom in the snow; English teachers can't read and for an oil change mechanics preface all work with: 'Gee, never did this before' (while handing you a liability disclaimer).

Hell, there's enough free Benzene in the air it's like sniffing glue. You'd have to go to Bopal to duplicate that !
Also, hydrocarbons are much cheaper within sight of a refineries (belching) smokestack !!!
30year old's living in Mom's basement want to know: Why would anyone suffer a 40% cost of living hike just to live in paradise when you could live in Ohio and sniff glue all day - for free?
-
JRA said:
Not sure if you have split the cases on an Ultra but from the factory the ones I have done have less than a teaspoon of white lithium grease in there. For me that seems pretty skimpy and taking it out and adding CH grease made a big noise reduction. Would other types of grease work as well? I'm not sure but for intended use the CH grease is fit for purpose as explained here:


I use a bit less than Tom, probably like 3 tsp's, and find it sufficient. As seen above when the gearbox is in use the grease liquifies and distributes itself and when not in use returns to a grease like state which is what you are seeing in the pic above. I don't think that it being on the outer bearing surface has any negative effect at least from having inspected after use it seems like it gets everywhere it needs to be in there eventually with no ill effect. Just make sure none gets into the controller area which is why I didn't pack it full to begin with.
Click to expand...
Dang, if/ when I get a tractor or combine I'll be right on that.
Wut's a Corn Head ???
It's your motor. Coat it with as much of whatever you please.
I do gears w/ enough to coat contact surfaces, perhaps a film for corrosion protection, but none that will fling on non-contact surfaces.
Very little to fling off and no better or worse that globs of lube.
 
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