how do you feel about the current regulatory system for e-Bikes in the US?

[kmccune]

You said a lot,BTW why would Horses be allowed on scenic trails rather than sensible EBikes? A Horse( of course) is a force to be reckoned with and can cause much damage, bicycles cab be a nuisance on public roads.Bike lanes and better infrastructure are whats needed. a test and bicycle license may help some( licenses do not seem to do much in America and they are handed out like candy on Halloween.
A bicycle is the only way some can enjoy trails. Everyone has an opinion, IMO sensible bikes and ebikes should be allowed on trails.( not those multi-thousand watt monsters( motorcycle in disguise)

 

[tomjasz]

Why is it you throttle haters constantly use the argument that a throttle means a rude 40+mph rider?
Imagine some of us aren’t spring chickens and need assistance and ride safe and sane. Just am I a threat on my 36v 350w BBS01?

 

[Gordon71]

Why is it you throttle haters constantly use the argument that a throttle means a rude 40+mph rider?
Imagine some of us aren’t spring chickens and need assistance and ride safe and sane. Just HTF am I a threat on my 36v 350w BBS01? Dipwads!

Generally I have little use for a throttle but I do use one on every ride and am glad I have it. It's perfect for getting underway after a stop as I never bother with either 1st or second gear and if the stop is an emergency one it's essential when in 4th to 7th gear.

 

[Nomad]

I haven't read ever comment here but as far as speed limits being the way to go if were talking actual speed the issue is many bikes don't have speedometers but do have maximum assist speed big difference. Also, most non ebikes don't have one are you thinking of this when suggesting that would be the way to go?

 

[m@Robertson]

I haven't read ever comment here but as far as speed limits being the way to go if were talking actual speed the issue is many bikes don't have speedometers but do have maximum assist speed big difference.

huh? In order to have a maximum assist speed, the ebike must have a display which shows speed. As in it has a speedometer. they all do. Assist limits are applied to a bicycle via the display typically, not the controller or motor. Actually I want to say 'always' but I know the Bafang drives have an internal setting that can be used to apply a backup limiter, even though its always handled via the display the setting is there.

Bottom line though is to have a speed limiter you must have a speed-o-meter.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Bottom line though is to have a speed limiter you must have a speed-o-meter.

Not really. Many e-bikes (especially mountain or road ones) have no speedometer, and typically the speed limiter is implemented in the controller/motor system. All Specialized e-MTBs and the whole SL line come without any speedometer. It is optional for you to add a wireless display there. (That has changed for 2022 MasterMind system but was in effect until 2021 for all e-bikes I mentioned). Also, Giant RideControl One e-bikes need no speedometer.

 

[rtp]

Rules/laws with no enforcement are worth what?

Rules that make no sense are worth what?

Inconsistent rules are frustrating.

For the above reasons, my plan is to ignore the rules, and just ride in a sane manner. You want to write me a ticket for being illegal? Go for it.

New rules should have some thought given to the rider's age/abilities. In other words, MANY senior riders wouldn't be riding if it were not for the assistance available with an e-bike - even though they may not qualify for a disabled status. Clearly that's not going to be an easy job writing into any new rules, but I beleive it's a critical piece to the puzzle at hand.....

Yeah, this is a fair point.
Kind of like when Congress was making 'laws' around the Internet (ok, and still are, Net 'Neutrality' and other messes) - if you can't even understand the subject, don't write legislation, but that's also sadly where 'non-profits' and various others come in to make nonsense laws serving <someone>.

I also agree on 'don't ride like an ass,' on and off-road per road or trail policy, and most of us 'shouldn't' have problems, but sooner or later someone'll see it as a revenue stream writing tickets, so hopefully there's a level of sanity before then... not necessarily the existing system that seems to be spreading (like a plague) with more states adopting the 'inherited' 3 class system, etc.

 

[AHicks]

Yeah, this is a fair point.
Kind of like when Congress was making 'laws' around the Internet (ok, and still are, Net 'Neutrality' and other messes) - if you can't even understand the subject, don't write legislation, but that's also sadly where 'non-profits' and various others come in to make nonsense laws serving <someone>.

I also agree on 'don't ride like an ass,' on and off-road per road or trail policy, and most o'shouldn't have problems, but sooner or later someone'll see it as a revenue stream writing tickets, so hopefully there's a level of sanity before then... not necessarily the existing system that seems to be spreading (like a plague) with more states adopting the 'inherited' 3 class system, etc.

Florida has recognized the 3 class system, and chosen to ignore it! E-bikes are good to go wherever bikes are!

Now if we can just get more dedicated bike lanes - something more advanced/safer than painted white lines....

I have to give them the fact they are working on it, but infrastructure like that takes time and money.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

First of all, the 20 and 28 mph speed limits are entirely arbitrary, as is the 750 W limit. No one really knows why 28 mph was picked.

Let me add my 2 eurocents
The U.S. had looked at European regulations before making its own.
28 mph is 45 km/h. That speed limit was applied to IGH mopeds in Europe long time ago. Nowadays, both S-Pedelecs and IGH mopeds belong to the same Euro Approved Type of L1e-B and are treated equally by law.
20 mph is a nice round number that translates to the Canadian 32 kph. Note: The Euro speed limit is 25 km/h or 15.5 mph only. The North American regulators took the long regional distances into account and allowed higher speed than it is in Europe. And of course, 750 W is roughly speaking the power of a horse, which is iconic in North America (cowboys).

There's an explanation I heard about the low Euro limit of 25 km/h: "The lawmakers decided that any healthy cyclist can achieve the speed of 25 km/h on a traditional bike easily. Riding faster safely requires more skill. As an e-bike makes accelerating very easy, the lawmakers chose the 25 km/h as the e-bike speed limit". I'm not convinced by that reasoning at all. Any young brat can reach 30 km/h on their XC bike with ease!

 

[fuyume]

You said a lot,BTW why would Horses be allowed on scenic trails rather than sensible EBikes? A Horse( of course) is a force to be reckoned with and can cause much damage, bicycles cab be a nuisance on public roads.Bike lanes and better infrastructure are whats needed. a test and bicycle license may help some( licenses do not seem to do much in America and they are handed out like candy on Halloween.
A bicycle is the only way some can enjoy trails. Everyone has an opinion, IMO sensible bikes and ebikes should be allowed on trails.( not those multi-thousand watt monsters( motorcycle in disguise)

Neither bicycles nor horses belong on trails. That's my opinion. The problem is not one horse or one bicycle, the problem is masses of them. The only environmentally sensible solution is to disallow them.

 

[fuyume]

Let me add my 2 eurocents
The U.S. had looked at European regulations before making its own.
28 mph is 45 km/h. That speed limit was applied to IGH mopeds in Europe long time ago. Nowadays, both S-Pedelecs and IGH mopeds belong to the same Euro Approved Type of L1e-B and are treated equally by law.
20 mph is a nice round number that translates to the Canadian 32 kph. Note: The Euro speed limit is 25 km/h or 15.5 mph only. The North American regulators took the long regional distances into account and allowed higher speed than it is in Europe. And of course, 750 W is roughly speaking the power of a horse, which is iconic in North America (cowboys).

There's an explanation I heard about the low Euro limit of 25 km/h: "The lawmakers decided that any healthy cyclist can achieve the speed of 25 km/h on a traditional bike easily. Riding faster safely requires more skill. As an e-bike makes accelerating very easy, the lawmakers chose the 25 km/h as the e-bike speed limit". I'm not convinced by that reasoning at all. Any young brat can reach 30 km/h on their XC bike with ease!

I'm aware of all of this. That doesn't make the limits any less arbitrary.

 

[AHicks]

Neither bicycles nor horses belong on trails. That's my opinion. The problem is not one horse or one bicycle, the problem is masses of them. The only environmentally sensible solution is to disallow them.

I would say that horses belong on horse trails. They're sort of a unique factor that doesn't mix well with about anything else.

As far as no bikes on trails, not sure where that idea comes from, as bikes on trails are immensely popular, and multi use paths (MUP's) have been developed with bike use in mind. Banning bikes from them makes no sense to me at all. Or are you saying ban them all if you see one person riding like a jack ass? Please expand on your thought here.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm aware of all of this. That doesn't make the limits any less arbitrary.

From when are any limits non-arbitrary?

 

[chunk]

I don't have a problem sharing the trails with bicycles, e bicycles, or pedestrians. Not horses though, they're too big and if they get spooked can really hurt somebody, and the fact they dump that recycled hay out all over the trail. Nasty stuff to walk or bike through.

 

[m@Robertson]

Not really. Many e-bikes (especially mountain or road ones) have no speedometer, and typically the speed limiter is implemented in the controller/motor system. All Specialized e-MTBs and the whole SL line come without any speedometer. It is optional for you to add a wireless display there. (That has changed for 2022 MasterMind system but was in effect until 2021 for all e-bikes I mentioned). Also, Giant RideControl One e-bikes need no speedometer.

No I wasn't talking about a speed display. I was saying - in different words - that all of the bikes in question have a speed measurement system - aka a speedometer - on the bike and it is operational. Speed display is a bonus, I suppose.

I'm all for no speed display on bikes, just as I am no data reporting. Its a miracle cyclists were able to ride at all for over a century without these ridiculous technological crutches.

 

[m@Robertson]

Florida has recognized the 3 class system, and chosen to ignore it! E-bikes are good to go wherever bikes are!

Same with the Grand Canyon.
- ebikes are good wherever bikes are good
- 20 mph limit everywhere (ignored I might add, and for good reason as 5 mph is too much more often than not, but also some downhill stretches on the way back from Hermit's Rest on the South Rim will see bikes going the usual expected 35 mph + and nobody bats an eye).
- no forward motion without pedaling unless you are on a motor vehicle road (thats exactly how they put it. No mention of the word throttle)

That last item I found interesting as it prohibits throttles in some places - nothing new - and allows them in others - that was unexpected.

 

[Nomad]

huh? In order to have a maximum assist speed, the ebike must have a display which shows speed. As in it has a speedometer. they all do. Assist limits are applied to a bicycle via the display typically, not the controller or motor. Actually I want to say 'always' but I know the Bafang drives have an internal setting that can be used to apply a backup limiter, even though its always handled via the display the setting is there.

Bottom line though is to have a speed limiter you must have a speed-o-meter.

Huh?? neither of my Giant's do but indeed the system does Know when you reach that cut off speed. There is no speedometer that actually shows speed on the bikes.

 

[AHicks]

Huh?? neither of my Giant's do but indeed the system does Know when you reach that cut off speed. There is no speedometer that actually shows speed on the bikes.

On the bold, that may be true of your experience, but every bike I've had was/is equipped with a speedo....

 

[Nomad]

Neither bicycles nor horses belong on trails. That's my opinion. The problem is not one horse or one bicycle, the problem is masses of them. The only environmentally sensible solution is to disallow them.

Some trails exist because of horses & bicycles imagine if we just locked everybody out of the forest. That's just some food for thought we all have opinions. If think about your house might not exist if it weren't for trails

 

[Nomad]

Part of my point is many don't and most regular non Ebikes don't

On the bold, that may be true of your experience, but every bike I've had was/is equipped with a speedo....part of my po