how do you feel about the current regulatory system for e-Bikes in the US?

[fuyume]

I disagree with throttle only ability for bikes. Make them a class of motorcycle with appropriate rules.

On what basis, exactly? There is no logical reason to disallow throttle only operation up to the exact same limits as any other bicycle. In fact, I would say that the only reasonable means of determining any legal limit to bicycle speed would be to whatever average speed a typical professional road racing cyclist can achieve unassisted in controlled testing.

 

[fuyume]

Just How Fast Do Pro Cyclists Ride in the Tour de France?

We examine the average speed and other metrics of the world’s best cyclists. How would you stack up?

www.bicycling.com

Based on what’s presented here, which pretty much matches my expectations, a hard limit of 30 mph for public operation seems reasonable for all non-regulated classes of ebikes, throttle or no. Tour pros can sustain 25-30 mph, unassisted. Wattage should not be regulated, as terrain will vary, and overspecified motors will have greater longevity, plus speed limiters are easy to implement in controllers.

 

[mschwett]

Just How Fast Do Pro Cyclists Ride in the Tour de France?

We examine the average speed and other metrics of the world’s best cyclists. How would you stack up?

www.bicycling.com

Based on what’s presented here, which pretty much matches my expectations, a hard limit of 30 mph for public operation seems reasonable for all non-regulated classes of ebikes, throttle or no. Tour pros can sustain 25-30 mph, unassisted. Wattage should not be regulated, as terrain will vary, and overspecified motors will have greater longevity, plus speed limiters are easy to implement in controllers.

i'm not sure what the capability of a trained professional athlete on a closed/controlled course has to do with the speed of ebikes. isn't that a little like saying a formula one driver can safely turn at 120mph so that's how fast the speed limit on turns for private automobiles on public roads should be? or 200 on the straights?

anyone cycling under their own power on level ground at 30mph is extremely experienced. IMO that's absolutely not something safe for "anyone" to be able to achieve in a bike lane, trail, or MUP just by sitting down and pushing the throttle.

a reasonably fit recreational cyclist can sustain 20mph on the flats. i don't think the 20mph assist cutoff of class 1 bikes is arbitrary.

i think i agree with you that wattage should not be limited, but speed (and possible rate of acceleration) should.

 

[fuyume]

isn't that a little like saying a formula one driver can safely turn at 120mph so that's how fast the speed limit on turns for private automobiles on public roads should be?

Not at all. That’s not a correct analogy. If it’s not legal for me to go 30 mph on my ebike, why should it be legal for a stronger rider to go 30 mph on a conventional bike? Because he was gifted by nature with better physicality?

 

[mschwett]

Not at all. That’s not a correct analogy. If it’s not legal for me to go 30 mph on my ebike, why should it be legal for a stronger rider to go 30 mph on a conventional bike? Because he was gifted by nature with better physicality?

i understand the point you’re trying to make, but i just don’t see why the maximum ability of a trainer/experienced/fit person should be any kind of benchmark. if you don’t think it’s safe to go 30, then that shouldn’t be allowed, right? regardless of whether someone is capable of it. unless the only risk is to yourself, IMO.

the difference to me between a motor and not is enormous. a motor which can quickly bring you up to 30mph and keep you there with no effort would result in a very, very high average rate of speed, and huge speed differentials with normal non-motorized users. that really isn’t the case with even very dedicated analog cyclists. average ride speeds are much, much lower than top speeds. . it takes a HUGE, focused effort to get to and sustain those kinds of speeds without a motor.

these numbers are KPH:

 

[BlackHand]

The MUP available to me has a 15mph speed limit and officially does not allow class 3 bikes. Said MUP alternates between a dedicated trail, protected bike lane, naked bike lane, sharrows, and shared sidewalk for several short sections. The path spans 2 counties and 4+ municipalities(where I ride).

I gave up trying to figure out which set of conflicting rules takes precedence and just try to ride responsibly.

In general, I think a combination of speed and weight limits(<100 lbs?) would make more sense for limiting trail/MUP access rather than imperfect class or power restrictions.

 

[rich c]

Another throttle hater. Sheesh.

Add me to the throttle haters. If anyone looks out of place and going higher speeds on multiuser trails, it's the throttlers making videos of going 45mph.

 

[Roamers]

Another throttle hater. Sheesh.

Don't hate them; just not on the trails with me.

 

[Roamers]

That would be YOUR OPINION, and further, incorrect as it is, it would not be shared by a lot of people.

Obviously my opinion. I thought the string was about what we thought. Sorry if I misinterpreted the direction of the string.

 

[Ken M]

The federal definition was fine and was in place in 2002. When ebikes began to get popular in 2012-2014 People for Bikes accepted lobby money (mostly about protecting auto and oil) to push the non-sensical 3-class system. It's funny they claim it's "the best they could find" but they never even considered just getting the states to fully recognize the federal definition of a LSEB as a bike. That was the right way to make sure none of this confusion ever happens.

 

[AHicks]

Obviously my opinion. I thought the string was about what we thought. Sorry if I misinterpreted the direction of the string.

Clearly, you deserve an opinion, even if I don't agree with it. Apologies.

 

[John from Connecticut]

This subject comes up a lot, and a few of us have pretty frequently stated (and re-stated hahah) views. Let’s see what a broader set of opinions are.

Speaking of the US, i would describe the current system as this: there are federal and state definitions of what an e-Bike is, with the state definitions generally governing where and what kind of e-Bikes are legal to use in that state, through local enforcement (excluding federal lands.) Many states have adopted variations of the three class system. Use is generally restricted by location and class rather than by speed: e.g. many mixed use paths permit only type 1 or 2 bikes, most bike lanes permit all three, most trails only permit type 1, but said trails and bike lanes don’t have speed limits for bikes.

Please don’t argue or proselytize, let’s see how many voices we can hear!

Hello, Slightly off topic..

I have two e-Bikes, a Class 2 and a Class 3. Total miles ridden in 4 years 8500-ish. I ride Rail Trails
and limited paved roads. Not a single problem, issue, question ever from Law Enforcement in four years .
I am very concerned about the sub $1000 'e-scooters' aka bikes with throttles and 'foot rests' aka
pedals.

I have nothing against throttles, but throttle 'bikes' when ridden almost exclusively using the throttle
and almost no pedal, that's an e-scooter in my view. If the pedals were pegs the bike would be
a scooter. What's the difference ? I absolutely don't think the Class of bike is problem.
How the bike, any bike is ridden can be a problem. As the sub $1000 throttle 'bikes' proliferate
I can see a significant issue for the traditional e-biker, since we'll all be lumped into the same group.

 

[mschwett]

The MUP available to me has a 15mph speed limit and officially does not allow class 3 bikes. Said MUP alternates between a dedicated trail, protected bike lane, naked bike lane, sharrows, and shared sidewalk for several short sections. The path spans 2 counties and 4+ municipalities(where I ride).

I gave up trying to figure out which set of conflicting rules takes precedence and just try to ride responsibly.

In general, I think a combination of speed and weight limits(<100 lbs?) would make more sense for limiting trail/MUP access rather than imperfect class or power restrictions.

i think a lot of ours are like that too - 15mph no class 3. the funny thing is, if you have a 15mph speed limit…. why do they care whether the assist cuts off at 20mph or 28mph

i typically avoid MUPs for this reason, whether on my e-bike or non e-bike (i actually ride the latter faster)

from a physics standpoint, speed and weight are the two things you’d want to regulate. the latter would be a huge can of worms.

 

[chunk]

Why don't I care whether people turn a throttle or pedal, or a combination of both? What's wrong with me?

 

[dodgeman]

I can’t say I have an opinion. I have a class I which I think is legal anywhere in the US. I’ve only been on maybe 6 trails and have never seen anyone enforcing any bike laws and have never seen any sign posted with restrictions.

 

[Nomad]

Some food for thought truth is some regulation is needed. The current ones seem pretty reasonable but, in most places, they're not enforce. One could take enforcement too far. Something else to keep in mind is what you have may not be an electric bicycle. So, it should be treated as such you might have an electric moped or motorcycle for example. My opinion is let's not mistake freedom or rights for I can do whatever I want. I hope we can keep regulation to a minimum and make them clear and reasonable. Keep the pedals turning!

 

[Nomad]

Not at all. That’s not a correct analogy. If it’s not legal for me to go 30 mph on my ebike, why should it be legal for a stronger rider to go 30 mph on a conventional bike? Because he was gifted by nature with better physicality?

As a side note many people don't realize you can do thirty or more just unassisted another words your Ebike could be going 50 down the hill without the motor assisting and it's not illegal.

 

[FrankR]

I don't know much yet about how the regulations play out in my local area. I'm just aware of the 3 Class definitions.

If there are going to be regulations for a particular area or trail, I'd personally like those to be by Speed, not what my bike can do.
When I have to ride home from a trail, the power of my bike, and the ability to accelerate, could actually save my life.

I definitely agree people shouldn't be doing 50mph on an eBike. Certainly not on a trail where people are walking.
Someone pointed out lack of panic stop skill. That's a really good point. It's a key lesson in motorcycle safety, but I imagine the typical self taught eBiker hasn't given much thought to practicing a controlled panic stop at a higher speed.

I wouldn't mind having to register eBikes with a simple approach - read safety material online, take a quiz, get a card. Wouldn't want to overcomplicate it, but, some simple way to get everyone to read safety info wouldn't be a bad idea in my opinion.

The Motorcycle Safety Foundation material I ingested when getting into motorcycling was invaluable and essential.

 

[AHicks]

I don't know much yet about how the regulations play out in my local area. I'm just aware of the 3 Class definitions.

If there are going to be regulations for a particular area or trail, I'd personally like those to be by Speed, not what my bike can do.
When I have to ride home from a trail, the power of my bike, and the ability to accelerate, could actually save my life.

I definitely agree people shouldn't be doing 50mph on an eBike. Certainly not on a trail where people are walking.
Someone pointed out lack of panic stop skill. That's a really good point. It's a key lesson in motorcycle safety, but I imagine the typical self taught eBiker hasn't given much thought to practicing a controlled panic stop at a higher speed.

I wouldn't mind having to register eBikes with a simple approach - read safety material online, take a quiz, get a card. Wouldn't want to overcomplicate it, but, some simple way to get everyone to read safety info wouldn't be a bad idea in my opinion.

As somebody else that's high time motorcycle and been through motorcycle safety certification courses (first one was so much fun I took another!), geez, I don't know how I could agree more!! You NEED TO KNOW how fast you can stop that bike - on ANY surface!!!! That's a big deal if you ever plan on riding at more than a walking speed. And that's just one topic....

Be neat to see somebody come up with a performance e-bike course geared towards defensive/common sense riding rules. Maybe just a basic course, and another for those wanting more information? The motorcycle courses exposed me to MANY MANY different concepts that had never occurred to me, even though I'd been riding for 20 years when I took the course! I don't know that people should be forced to take a class like that, but I'm betting with the right format, there could be waiting lists to take them.... -Al

 

[FrankR]

As somebody else that's high time motorcycle and been through motorcycle safety certification courses (first one was so much fun I took another!), geez, I don't know how I could agree more!! You NEED TO KNOW how fast you can stop that bike - on ANY surface!!!! That's a big deal if you ever plan on riding at more than a walking speed. And that's just one topic....

Be neat to see somebody come up with a performance e-bike course geared towards defensive/common sense riding rules. Maybe just a basic course, and another for those wanting more information? The motorcycle courses exposed me to MANY MANY different concepts that had never occurred to me, even though I'd been riding for 20 years when I took the course! I don't know that people should be forced to take a class like that, but I'm betting with the right format, there could be waiting lists to take them.... -Al

Yup - what you learn at MSF isn't going to be automatically Discovered. It is such vital information.
Would be great to see an ESF emerge - EBike Safety Foundation - with a course.

I have been searching online, and I'm shocked that I haven't found something yet. Most articles I see are just that - very short articles with mostly common sense stuff and maybe one or two points that would be new to a non MSFer.